General/Other - Tempest Am I the only one who hates the 2 frame link?

[Eddy Wang]

Much easier

that's because it is lol.


The mentality of FGC these days lol, life is not easy either.
people think 2f links are hard? play evil ryu in USF4 and try to do his combos extensions, see what hard on real life is:




Better yet, do 10 ewgf in a row with kazuya as a consistent juggle:

Then comeback to this thread and say KL link is hard lol.

 

[Tweedy]

The timing also varies depending on what string/normal you land.

But yeah, it's not about "I don't like hard stuff in fite game", it's just upsetting because this character is trash, AND he's harder to use than almost every other character in the game. Why not just use a better character that's also easy to play.?

So stop shaking your you know what's, elitists. If the game were full of hard stuff then us Lao players wouldn't care. It's the fact that the game is easy, he's somewhat hard, and he's not even that good of a character. You master the link and you're rewarded with mid tier greatness. omg

 

[Eddy Wang]

The timing also varies depending on what string/normal you land.

This isn't true. A link should never have variable frame data it will never work

But i'm going to video test it with audio cues just to test your theory, i will play a video of the link landed from 2 different strings after the hat spin.

Are you willing to let me know which strings varies the timing?

 

[Tweedy]

This isn't true. A link should never have variable frame data it will never work

But i'm going to video test it with audio cues just to test your theory, i will play a video of the link landed from 2 different strings after the hat spin.

Are you willing to let me know which strings varies the timing?

I didn't say it has variable frame data.

 

[tafka Djinn]

I didn't say it has variable frame data.

Then what the hell is this supposed to mean?

The timing also varies depending on what string/normal you land.

Genuinely, help an insomniac out here, because that sounds like you mean it's a timing based variable, which would imply variable frames.

 

[Tweedy]

Then what the hell is this supposed to mean?


Genuinely, help an insomniac out here, because that sounds like you mean it's a timing based variable, which would imply variable frames.

This game used loaded inputs. In this particular situation, the loaded input is the string into hatspin, without the 44. The 44 comes after. You throw the 44 based on the timing of the string into the hat. When you input the loaded input, like 11 xx hatspin, or b2 xx hatspin, the timing of 44 is definitely different.

This might sound really strange if you're heavily into games that do not use loaded inputs, like basically all other fighting games.

If there were no loaded inputs and it were just whatever string or hit, confirmed into hatspin, linked with 44, it would have no varying timing, it would be the same every time. That's not how MKX generally works, though.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I still don't get what you mean.

According to what you're saying, if i try to 44 out of hat spin from 11212, b2 or f2 the timing will be different, is that right?

 

[Tweedy]

I still don't get what you mean.

According to what you're saying, if i try to 44 out of hat spin from 11212, b2 or f2 the timing will be different, is that right?

See look I know what you're going to do here.

Obviously if you isolate hatspin and the 44 link, you can say "well it's always a 3 frame link, so how is it ever different".

My point is that you're not confirming hatspin on this game, like you would confirm something on a game that does not use strings and/or loaded inputs. You're confirming the 44 off of the string loaded with the hatspin. That's how MKX works. The frames on each string are different, so if you're sitting there, not using visual cues, and doing the same timing every time, after each string/normal into hatspin, it will be different.

You're not hitting B2, then hatspin, then 44.

You're doing B2 xx hatspin, 44. That's the game.

The timing of B2 xx hatspin, is different than 11 xx hatspin, is different than F2 xx hatspin. You have to shift your timing or use a visual cue.

Edit: It's late and i'm so ridiculously certain on this. I'm just gonna head to bed. If anything interesting is posted i'll check tomorrow.

 

[omooba]

okay first of all it's not a 2 frame link anymore.... end of thread

lol but for real it's way easier than it was. don't know if hit advantage was changed or you can buffer it know but yeah you have more than 2 frames to input.

and just saying but i don't know if this should be a complaint, if you can't do it just don't play the character. imagine if they changed everything with a bit of learning curve? bruh. i been using liu kang since day one. going through all the increase in execution and crying about it only to be increased again. you just gotta accept it and GIT GUD SCRUB

 

[God Confirm]

The timing of B2 xx hatspin, is different than 11 xx hatspin 100%, is different than F2 xx hatspin. You have to shift your timing or use a visual cue.

im confused

can you not just cancel the button into the special? where does the timing change?

 

[Tweedy]

im confused

can you not just cancel the button into the special? where does the timing change?

Yeah but you're inputting the hatspin before it comes out on the screen.

No offense guys but if you can't see where the timing changes, with what I've said, then i'm lost.

Edit: Because you use loaded inputs and things come out after you've pressed them, you're always going to be bound by the frames of the string/normal you've used. I know that's not normal FGC logic but that's just how MKX works.

 

[God Confirm]

Yeah but you're inputting the hatspin before it comes out on the screen.

No offense guys but if you can't see where the timing changes, with what I've said, then i'm lost.

you input everything before it comes out on screen

thats why you input something

then it comes out after

:\


i genuinely dont get what you are saying

 

[Tweedy]

you input everything before it comes out on screen

thats why you input something

then it comes out after

:\


i genuinely dont get what you are saying

That's not how other fighting games work, so I figured that's where the confusion came in.

Because you're inputting it before it comes out, you're still bound by the frames of the string/button. It's not like you're pressing whatever, confirming it into hatspin, and then doing 44 with the same timing every time. By the time you've inputted hatspin and are geared up to do 44, the string/hatspin may be just coming out on the screen, so the timing will vary, even if by technical logic it should not.

 

[Second Saint]

you input everything before it comes out on screen

thats why you input something

then it comes out after

:\


i genuinely dont get what you are saying

I think he means that by dialing in the entire string/special, the timing of when you have to make the link varies based on how long it takes for that string to end and get to the special, not that the window in which you can link gets any smaller or bigger. Which...I guess is true?

And Broodmother links actually do vary based on distance and projectile travel frames.

 

[God Confirm]

That's not how other fighting games work, so I figured that's where the confusion came in.

Because you're inputting it before it comes out, you're still bound by the frames of the string/button. It's not like you're pressing whatever, confirming it into hatspin, and then doing 44 with the same timing every time. By the time you've inputted hatspin and are geared up to do 44, the string/hatspin may be just coming out on the screen, so the timing will vary, even if by technical logic it should not.

sure, but in the context of this fighting game, whats the difference between B2xhatspin and F2xHatspin? Thats what i asked about, and thats when you said moves come out after you input them, other games have literally no relevance to what im asking here



but while you mention it, i dont understand what you mean about it not happening like that in other fighting games either

in literally every game, not just fighters, matter what commands you are inputting, you have to tell the game what to do first - then that action will come out after. from mkx to street fighter to bad rats to big rig racing to bioshock infinite.

 

[Tweedy]

@A F0xy Grampa your 2 cents?

I'm trying my best to not be condescending. It's just that this is one of the first things that I noticed when grinding out B2 and F2 hatspin into 44. If you do B2 and then 11, for example, you'll really notice the difference.

It's also getting pretty late. Good night boys.

 

[God Confirm]

I think he means that by dialing in the entire string/special, the timing of when you have to make the link varies based on how long it takes for that string to end and get to the special, not that the window in which you can link gets any smaller or bigger. Which...I guess is true?

And Broodmother links actually do vary based on distance and projectile travel frames.

lol i mean... i guess it is somehow technically true

doesnt really affect the timing tho, its always the same input - immediately after you finish pressing the last button in the string, whether its a 1,2,3, or 5 hit string, you input hat spin immediately afterwards - universal timing yo

 

[God Confirm]

@A F0xy Grampa your 2 cents?

I'm trying my best to not be condescending. It's just that this is one of the first things that I noticed when grinding out B2 and F2 hatspin into 44. If you do B2 and then 11, for example, you'll really notice the difference.

It's also getting pretty late. Good night boys.

wait are you talking about linking the 44 afterwards? is that the timing difference you are referring to? because i thought the timing difference you were talking about was the timing of activating the hatspin

 

[Tweedy]

sure, but in the context of this fighting game, whats the difference between B2xhatspin and F2xHatspin? Thats what i asked about, and thats when you said moves come out after you input them, other games have literally no relevance to what im asking here



but while you mention it, i dont understand what you mean about it not happening like that in other fighting games either

in literally every game, not just fighters, matter what commands you are inputting, you have to tell the game what to do first - then that action will come out after. from mkx to street fighter to bad rats to big rig racing to bioshock infinite.

On a game like Street Fighter you confirm things on your controller, when they're supposed to come out in the string.

If you come into this discussion with that logic, this won't make any sense. You may think "well, even if the string/normal is a different speed, you're confirming into hatspin anyways", but no, on MKX, you're throwing out the hatspin before it comes, or is supposed to come out, on the screen.

See what i'm saying? That's my reason for bringing up other games.

 

[Tweedy]

wait are you talking about linking the 44 afterwards? is that the timing difference you are referring to? because i thought the timing difference you were talking about was the timing of activating the hatspin

Yeah I was talking about the 44 link. The hatspin is always the same, as it's apart of the loaded input.

So we're cool. Sign my agenda at the end of the year please.

 

[Tweedy]

Another bit of confusion is that I don't know if loaded input is the best term. I'm super new to fighting games.

I mean like how you're inputting the string, and then the special, before they come out on the screen. On Street Fighter if I do medium punch, crouching medium kick, with Ryu, i'm inputting the kick as it's coming out on the screen, basically. That's not how MK works.

Just to make sure we're all on the same page.

 

[Eddy Wang]

What @Tweedy is saying has anything to do with linking 44 after the hat spin, this discussion has been taken out of the contest already and by himself. Sigh!

In fact the loaded input window in this game is awfully big, so canceling normals into specials switches according to buffers, but it seems he has confused this with links.

Links are connect normals with another normal when the hit advantages allows it without needing to cancel, surely they have to be timed, and mashing doesn't help get them coming out consistently specially if the link window is thigh, in MKX we don't have this kind of link.

Instead there is two types of link in the MKX:
the run cancel one, that allows you to connect a normal, cancel it with special and then cancel the special by running and then connect another normal while the available frame to do so allows it, if you pass the mark the auto block is triggered and the opponent gets able to block from that time towards.

The other one is used by tempest, which is landing a special that gives plus enough frames to connect another normal, its similar to street fighter, but instead of normal-to-normal, is made by special-to-normal, being the special move working as the first normal allowing to connect another normal.

doing special out of strings are not links, those are just special cancels or as NRS named it in MK9, 2in1 cancels.