Vilén
too smart to play MKX
It was confusing to begin with though. So none needed.I apologize for my misinterpretation, then.
It was confusing to begin with though. So none needed.I apologize for my misinterpretation, then.
Yes removing the special cancel would hurt, but it would be better than making reg shocker unsafe right? Since I doubt their removing the OS this would be the next best thing. Or making B2 into a B2,2 input. B2, shocker would still be safe but b2,2 would not be able to option select. But I'm sure that would be to much work to fix it, as they would have to make separate frame data for the new one hit b2No. Leave b2 special cancel-able. Just remove the option select. b2~ex-shocker DOES serve a purpose if you're going to make a read. Sometimes you're in positions where the first hit of b2 will reach, but the 2nd hit won't and you want to make a read. A read you can get blown up for though.
Don't make b2 non-special cancel-able. Just remove the OS please.
I don't think making it 2 different moves would be that much work. They have the frame data for both attacks. And with the warlock quan chi change they can move moves around. It's just they would have to make these changes to everyone which imo would be where most of the work comes from. That seems like a whole rebalance to me.Yes removing the special cancel would hurt, but it would be better than making reg shocker unsafe right? Since I doubt their removing the OS this would be the next best thing. Or making B2 into a B2,2 input. B2, shocker would still be safe but b2,2 would not be able to option select. But I'm sure that would be to much work to fix it, as they would have to make separate frame data for the new one hit b2
They would have to make new frame data for hit/block for b2. Would the new b2 be safe on block? How much push back? how much advantage on hit? How much cancel advantage? That's a lot of balancing.I don't think making it 2 different moves would be that much work. They have the frame data for both attacks. And with the warlock quan chi change they can move moves around. It's just they would have to make these changes to everyone which imo would be where most of the work comes from. That seems like a whole rebalance to me.
Yeah I guess making shocker unsafe would be worse than making b2 un cancelable. But why not just fix the OS? Is it impossible? All I'm saying is that b2~ex-shocker can serve a purpose. Not the best purpose. But shit if the OS isn't fixable, then I guess make b2 non cancelable.Yes removing the special cancel would hurt, but it would be better than making reg shocker unsafe right? Since I doubt their removing the OS this would be the next best thing. Or making B2 into a B2,2 input. B2, shocker would still be safe but b2,2 would not be able to option select. But I'm sure that would be to much work to fix it, as they would have to make separate frame data for the new one hit b2
Or how about do nothing unless it's warranted. Right now we are all theory fighting. How about we take the "wait and see if any adjustments are necessary" approach as opposed to the "..hmm how should we nerf Raiden next" one.Yeah I guess making shocker unsafe would be worse than making b2 un cancelable. But why not just fix the OS? Is it impossible? All I'm saying is that b2~ex-shocker can serve a purpose. Not the best purpose. But shit if the OS isn't fixable, then I guess make b2 non cancelable.
B3,4 is much easier to confirm hit or block. Also if they remove the safe overhead in any way, I would want b2 to not be -63 lol. Can't it be something more reasonable like -15I'm probably going to get crucified for saying this, but as a Raiden player I really don't like the idea of making our mix-ups safe. The whole idea of guessing correctly in a mix-up is to be rewarded, not go back to neutral.
However, you cannot simply remove option selects in fighting games. They always existed as part of how inputs are mapped out and how players take advantage of the fact that cancel windows for moves differ based on whether your attack whiffs or is blocked, among other things. Even if they are not favored, they are more than likely here to stay.
The best route would be to make it so that we cannot cancel either hit of the B2 on block. That way we are forced to play the mix-up game as it is meant to be played. Guess right, you are rewarded; guess wrong, get fucked.
A bit off-topic, but personally I don't understand the point in making Raiden's B3 4 special cancelable (yeah, not a word, but I'll deal). It now serves the same purpose as B3 3...I appreciate we got new tools, but I would like each of them to serve a unique purpose. I may have spoken too soon as we did just get the patch, so we shall see.
Good point! I'll have to remember that. I think the second hit of B3 4 has better range than B3 3 as well, from what I remember about it.B3,4 is much easier to confirm hit or block
B2 is like -30. If it was -63 or whatever my unblockables would punish this lolB3,4 is much easier to confirm hit or block. Also if they remove the safe overhead in any way, I would want b2 to not be -63 lol. Can't it be something more reasonable like -15
B3 4 by itself was less negative but still punishable. Cancelling it into the Shocker does solve that problem now, thank goodness.B33 was also unsafe on block; specials wouldn't jail and the string itself was negative enough to be combo punished. They essentially were giving a safe low to MoS/Displacer.
In a game based on mix-ups where many other characters have safe 50/50s, why would you not want your character to have one too?! If he didn't, he would be severely at a disadvantage. Unless you can convince people on every other character's board that they don't need safe mix-ups either.I'm probably going to get crucified for saying this, but as a Raiden player I really don't like the idea of making our mix-ups safe. The whole idea of guessing correctly in a mix-up is to be rewarded, not go back to neutral.
I have been waiting for someone to say that. What is the point of something being so negative anyway?B2 is like -30. If it was -63 or whatever my unblockables would punish this lol
im preeeeettty sure it is actually -63. you can jump in punishB2 is like -30. If it was -63 or whatever my unblockables would punish this lol
I think it actually works out perfectly- if it whiffs, you get to teabag me, switch stances, and then full combo punish (i bet kotal kahn could prob get a totem up lol) but the OS makes it so that if i do at least connect to a block Its not -100, delay wakeups/get up throws make me have to think, and lets all remember that armored wakeups will stuff raidens abusing the 50.50sI have been waiting for someone to say that. What is the point of something being so negative anyway?
whats the frames on b3 into shocker? I do it ALL the time esp midscreen because b33 pushes them away and I cant remember ever being punished for it without someone using armorim preeeeettty sure it is actually -63. you can jump in punish
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it's funny how b33 cancelable basically made noncancelable b34 obsolete, and now cancelable b34 makes b33 obsolete.
I don't think you are giving Raiden enough credit as a character if you truly think that not having a safe 50/50 would cripple him, and I mean no disrespect when I say this. It may just be me, but I look at what the character can do as a whole rather than just worry about my ability to go overhead or low.In a game based on mix-ups where many other characters have safe 50/50s, why would you not want your character to have one too?! If he didn't, he would be severely at a disadvantage. Unless you can convince people on every other character's board that they don't need safe mix-ups either.
i dont understand your questionwhats the frames on b3 into shocker? I do it ALL the time esp midscreen because b33 pushes them away and I cant remember ever being punished for it without someone using armor
I'm a dummy and forgot b2 is one move. My thought process was more for strings yet i was also combining the situation of b2 into that. woops.They would have to make new frame data for hit/block for b2. Would the new b2 be safe on block? How much push back? how much advantage on hit? How much cancel advantage? That's a lot of balancing.
They could have adjusted frames on f1 and kept it a mid, but they went the easy route and made it a high and left everything else the same. I'm sure there going to fix the safe overhead with as little effort as possible. I'm worried that would be making shocker unsafe
Jump ins into long range normals can make contact in less than 30 frames. Also, Erron's X-ray didn't punish B2 either when I was fishing for his new brutality. It's probably -32 or so.im preeeeettty sure it is actually -63. you can jump in punish
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it's funny how b33 cancelable basically made noncancelable b34 obsolete, and now cancelable b34 makes b33 obsolete.