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After going back to mkx for two days...

DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
I honestly am starting to rethink my stance on mk11 being superior. Well to be more clear, I am not sure the direction they went with mk11 is superior when compared to what mkx could have been with the better engine. Mk11 has more engaging footsies sure... but there are way too many fuck neutral tools in mk for it to ever have amazing true footsies based gameplay. Imagine if mk11 was a mix of a lot more mkx style stuff with mk11 updated graphics... setups galore, hard to blockables, run cancels (ok get rid of run button but cancels that led to dash normals for pressure)+ krushing blows and I think the game might have been better honestly. Don’t get me wrong I like mk11 but...if I want to sacrifice everything for footsies I’ll just go play tekken. I want some crazy shit from my mk. Tournament moments like “wow this pressure... he’s blocking all of it!”. If you took mk11 with flawless blocks/krushing blows/updated visuals and smoother animations but added the scary oki setups/resets/pressure of mkx on top of it.... that would be a damn fun game imo.
 
DixieFlatline78

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
Most people really dont like getting coinflipped to death. And I really dont know what's more fuck neutral than fullscreen run into a 9-frame mid. But a dash punch that you can jab float? A third screen low? Half screen mid? That's part of neutral, and playing neutral well involves taking those moves into account and dealing with them. If you like big setups and smothering pressure you should be down with super strong normals that lead to 40% unbreakable damage.

I do however agree that these characters could afford to be more broken. You can balance the game so nobody's too strong or so that everyone is a little borked, and the latter is a lot more fun. The most exciting stuff to see is stuff like Dirtbag Kano setups or Baraka just obliterating a lifebar or Kotal doing a 0-Death corner sequence.
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
Agilaz said:
To each their own, but MKX was IMO terrible because every single character was about set play, mix or get mixed, bullshit level strategies. You were outright punished for trying to play neutral and slowing the game down
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so imagnie mkx without run button... footsies that lead to fun is the answer.
 
Agilaz

Agilaz

It has begun
DeftMonk said:
so imagnie mkx without run button... footsies that lead to fun is the answer.
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I don't know if it's just the run button tbh. Armour plays a big part in the game even after the nerfs to armoured launchers. No run and very limited armour is actually one of the big reasons I like MK11 so much more.

Don't get me wrong, MK11 is nowhere near a perfect game, but it def has my vote, even above MK9. MK9 was amazing but there was just so much jank lmao. I still remember how they had nerfed Cyrax's command grab, only to be able to revert the nerf by picking Cyrax in his MK3 costume lol
 
Pizza

Pizza

Thrill Kill
Raider said:
MK11 is simplified version of MKX. Poke, grab, retreat, spam projectile, poke, grab... repeat.
They basically made all the MK9 and MKX characters worse, gameplay-wise.

I can never forgive them for what they did to Skarlet and D'Vorah.
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I don't think MK11's Skarlet is that bad, she's cool. She needs more buffs tho.

I agree about D'Vorah. That was wild. She was really good in MKX, but in MK11 idk what went wrong. Something similar happened to Cassie.
 
Raider

Raider

Warrior
Pizza said:
I don't think MK11's Skarlet is that bad, she's cool. She needs more buffs tho.

I agree about D'Vorah. That was wild. She was really good in MKX, but in MK11 idk what went wrong. Something similar happened to Cassie.
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I honestly don't know. With both D'Vorah and Cassie they had great, solid characters, looks like they just wanted to change things for the sake of changing things.

I prefer D'Vorah's design in MK11, they did absolutely fantastic job. But they butchered her gameplay.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Error404 said:
All of five of you must be very thrilled
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I'm pretty sure it's more than 5. There are a ton of people in the chat for every recent tournament saying how awesome the matches are. If you can watch Kollosseum and conclude that it's boring while lots of people are literally going insane in stream chat, you might actually be in the minority.

I think it's just hard for some people to conceive that the world is bigger than them.
 
Error404

Error404

Kombatant
CrimsonShadow said:
I'm pretty sure it's more than 5. There are a ton of people in the chat for every recent tournament saying how awesome the matches are. If you can watch Kollosseum and conclude that it's boring while people are literally going insane in stream chat, you might actually be in the minority.

I think it's just hard for some people to conceive that the world is bigger than them.
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I watch the Kollossuem and I know all about it. I follow the game and still play it. I still haven't even canceled the flight tickets for Vienality. I also know that MKX tournaments still get about the same , if not more viewers on Destroyers YouTube and are much more hype. And thats a game from 2015 with no official support either. Why is it so hard for you to accept that people do not share you prefrence?
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
DixieFlatline78 said:
Most people really dont like getting coinflipped to death. And I really dont know what's more fuck neutral than fullscreen run into a 9-frame mid. But a dash punch that you can jab float? A third screen low? Half screen mid? That's part of neutral, and playing neutral well involves taking those moves into account and dealing with them. If you like big setups and smothering pressure you should be down with super strong normals that lead to 40% unbreakable damage.

I do however agree that these characters could afford to be more broken. You can balance the game so nobody's too strong or so that everyone is a little borked, and the latter is a lot more fun. The most exciting stuff to see is stuff like Dirtbag Kano setups or Baraka just obliterating a lifebar or Kotal doing a 0-Death corner sequence.
Click to expand...
My point is exactly what you said in the second half. I don't want insta in ur face 50/50 fest either...but adding some more pressure options for rush down char (once you work your way in) oki for set up chars etc. etc. would be good imo. If they really removed all that shit so footsies would be more interesting then why the hell does everyone have a teleport/some move that obliterates footsies? You feel me?

I do think mk11 is a better game, but if mk11 had some more dirt here and there, it would be even better imo.
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
CrimsonShadow said:
Except for the people who actually enjoy/prefer footsie and fundamental-based gameplay.
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I am all for footsies and fundamental based gameplay, but I don't think that you can't make a game that has great depth in the offense AND footsies. If fundamentals/footsies is all you needed than in theory that would mean mk1 with no special moves is more fun than mk3.
 
Synesthesia Z

Synesthesia Z

Mortal
Raider said:
I honestly don't know. With both D'Vorah and Cassie they had great, solid characters, looks like they just wanted to change things for the sake of changing things.

I prefer D'Vorah's design in MK11, they did absolutely fantastic job. But they butchered her gameplay.
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Agreed. About those 2 chars being turned to nonesense but there's 1 more that takes the cake above all such chars, and that's the Thunder God ( god was he fun to watch in mkx ) He went from top ( At launch to one of the earlier patches )-high ( from that 1 patch and onward pretty much staying pretty stable at his place in the tiers, iirc) to end up becoming a kind of jobber for liu kang in the story and on top of that putting him in the gutter of a tierlist alongside another char deserving quite the opposite treatment. he looks great just like raider said about d'vorah and i like the visual designs of his special moves but ffs nrs pls take a closer look back on him and start the damage control program asap lol. imma give those unfamiliar to said char in question 1 very good and easy example out of too many to count; JUST COMPARE HIS TP FROM MKX AND THEN THE 1 OF MK11! MKX made sense and felt right in it's speed and recovery. TP's should be fast in mobility or it loses it's point. But should be punishable on read done raw or on block, unless spending the bar to stay safe. Exactly how it used to work in mkx and even get a combo extender on hitconfirm and spending recourses. Now in mk11 i struggle to find logic and make sense out of what his AMP TP supposed to do? 1 adv over normal TP is spending offensive ISO def bar but other than that it's complete garbage. the fact that he TP's twice it's literally giving the opponent a heads up with the first TP and i've never witnessed 1 player falling for that so called mindgame of punishing the first one and getting whiff punished after the 2nd one. no one reacts to that first 1 TP so you basically have a slower and more unsafe version of the regular one if you imagine that first one not even existing. how i would fanboy out of my mind were his AMP TP to work as it did in mkx. Ok now this weight is off my shoulders i can get busy with my real life again slowly. JK i just like Raiden
 
DixieFlatline78

DixieFlatline78

Everyone Has A Path
DeftMonk said:
My point is exactly what you said in the second half. I don't want insta in ur face 50/50 fest either...but adding some more pressure options for rush down char (once you work your way in) oki for set up chars etc. etc. would be good imo. If they really removed all that shit so footsies would be more interesting then why the hell does everyone have a teleport/some move that obliterates footsies? You feel me?

I do think mk11 is a better game, but if mk11 had some more dirt here and there, it would be even better imo.
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I getcha. I definitely wish offense was stronger so that neutral was more high stakes. It's less interesting when the reward for winning neutral is more neutral
 
Error404

Error404

Kombatant
DixieFlatline78 said:
I getcha. I definitely wish offense was stronger so that neutral was more high stakes. It's less interesting when the reward for winning neutral is more neutral
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Nah man. How am I supposed to deal with the fake frame traps ,irrelevant chip and the punishable on hit combos with only 6 wake up options?
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Error404 said:
I watch the Kollossuem and I know all about it. I follow the game and still play it. I still haven't even canceled the flight tickets for Vienality. I also know that MKX tournaments still get about the same , if not more viewers on Destroyers YouTube and are much more hype. And thats a game from 2015 with no official support either. Why is it so hard for you to accept that people do not share you prefrence?
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I accept that there are people who don't have my preference -- of course. What I don't accept is people saying that EVERYONE shares their same preference, and that a footsies-based game with less mixup is therefore categorically not hype. Because that's BS, and the chat in literally every tournament says otherwise.

It's fine to not like a game. MKX wasn't my favorite MK -- but I didn't try to ruin other people's hype either. Different strokes for different folks.
 
S

Shale101

Mortal
Raider said:
MK11 is simplified version of MKX. Poke, grab, retreat, spam projectile, poke, grab... repeat.
They basically made all the MK9 and MKX characters worse, gameplay-wise.

I can never forgive them for what they did to Skarlet and D'Vorah.
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I can never forgive them for what they did to Kitana....I can't even play her......It feels wrong. Also the wasted potential of Jade. Games should get better with each new game....I understand that sometimes you have to venture out and try new things or things get stale but this just went to far. When you go from one game where the character feels fun and there's lots to explore/ practice to that character in the next game feeling so watered down/bare it feels like a major step backwards for me.
 
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