Admiral Ackbar Memorial Thread: The Raiden Frame Game

[G4S KT]

Hey all, I wanted to get some focused discussion going about Raiden's utilization of frame traps. I'm a semi-experienced Raiden player (I have his bnbs memorized and have basic teleport mixup/superman checking strategy etc.) but I wanted to try and step my Raiden up to the next level.

The more I read about him here (and elsewhere) it seems that one of Raiden's biggest strengths is his ability to get frame advantage on both hit and block with some moves. If I'm not mistaken, there are things like f+2,4 on block gives enough advantage as to make a superman uninterruptable, and there are some moves like d+4 that seem like they give stagger state frames but I haven't really tested it out. I plan on testing some other movesas well; it looks like there are stagger state frames after a connected 2,2 but again I haven't tested it yet.

So I guess post Raiden frame trap knowledge here.

PS. feel free to make as many Sith lord/lightning bolt/star wars jokes as possible too.

 

[CAPSLOCK CAPTAI]

f2, 4 and b3,1~vb are my frame trap staples. f2,4 pushes back on block for perfect positioning for a follow up b3,1~vb. You can follow up with a sweep or a grab or just continue pressuring. The great part about f2,4 pressure is that you can easily start it out of a naked teleport. I don't really use the frame traps as much as I should, I tend to get focused on the teleport and superman mindgames.

 

[G4S KT]

I'm not sure how I feel about VB pressure since you need to use the ex version to hit a lot of the most popular characters. Burning meter on something to get frame advantage doesn't seem like the most useful use of it.

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[CAPSLOCK CAPTAI]

I'm not sure how I feel about VB pressure since you need to use the ex version to hit a lot of the most popular characters. Burning meter on something to get frame advantage doesn't seem like the most useful use of it.

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Which characters does it require EX for? I know Reptile probably, because he has the most annoying hitbox in the game... not sure about others though.

Even in cases where it requires meter to use, I honestly think it is something that Raiden should be built around. From my experience, a lot of characters only have one way out of the trap: ducking. Obviously this opens them up to the overhead finisher of the b312 string.

I love to use tele->sweep and b31vb to condition my opponents to try to duck. Since Raiden doesn't have a really good low-hit game, it's absolutely critical to use these two tools as much as possible against opponents who know how to play against Raiden. If you don't use the VB trap then there is little to no reason to block low against Raiden, so the trap just sort of gives him a low-block pressure option besides his sweep.

 

[Albo]

just did some testing of the standard vc blast on each character in the game. there are a few unclear and mixed results.

i first tested which characters the vc blast will hit when linked with 334 or b312 while the characters are standing and blocking. if the vc does hit after 33vc, 334vc, b31vc or b312vc then raiden is at a massive advantage and if it doesn't the is is at a disadvantage. i first tested this with all the characters midscreen while up close (almost touching) and these were the results.

characters that get hit: liu kang, kung lao, sub zero, sindel, kitana, johnny cage, jade, mileena, nightwolf, noob, sonya, jax, kano, baraka, kabal

characters that don't get hit: scorpion, ermac, reptile, cyrax, smoke, sektor, quan chi, skarlet



it is important to point out that kitana and kano gets hit by vc blast midscreen when linked with only with the b312 string. shang tsung only can only get hit with his back in the corner by b313 but can get hit midescreen by anything else. kabal and kenshi cannot be hit in the corner at all with any strings linked or cancelled with vc. raidens hand and vc blast just seem to go right through them if you don't use the right move. i don't know if this is unintentional or not. all the rest that get hit midscreen, get hit in the corner by anything.

what i also found out is that with some of the charcters that don't get hit midscreen, you can whiff the first few hits of 334 or b312 by standing a few feet from your opponent and vc will hit. i even tested the 22b4 and 1212 strings with the vc and again got very mixed results, but there's not really any need for these strings with vc as you have the others which consist of overheads and are traps.

 

[G4S KT]

This is what I meant about blast pressure. You really have to memorize this list to optimize it and spending meter on frame advantage is super situational.

It makes me wonder whether the blast was meant to hit everyone or no one on block.

 

[Albo]

This is what I meant about blast pressure. You really have to memorize this list to optimize it and spending meter on frame advantage is super situational.

It makes me wonder whether the blast was meant to hit everyone or no one on block.

remembering which characters are caught by normal vc blast when they block isn't a problem to me, the only issue is that with some characters you have to remember only specific combos linked with vc would work and the positioning of your opponent also matters. as for ex vc blast, i would rather save meter for ex shocker, breakers, ex lightening bolt and xray for those specific characters. i could see how ex vc would be useful if your opponent keeps crossing you up after your combo and you only have a little life left but i don't think i would ever use it much myself mid match. besides even if you are against a character which does not get hit by vc blast when they block (ex isn't necessary) then if they try to crossover you will get a free juggle and if they block low then you get a combo.