Question A place for Technical Questions

[IrishMantis]

How I plan on this thread to work?
If you do have questions try and keep them as technical and concise as possible, meaning don't ask about "why is this a bad MU?" or extremely time consuming questions such as "can somebody list how many frames it takes a character to run half of the screen please?"
Keep it simple, lame and straight as possible.
Nobody wants to write an essay just to answer a question lol

Now when I say Technical I mean based on the games system, frames, fundamentals and maybe on characters if you feel it is relevant to this thread.

Try and keep your questions on terms and definitions to a minimum .
Personally I don't mind answering any but I just don't want the more focused questions to be overlooked.
I'm pretty sure @Zoidberg747 wrote a nicely layed out "Glossary of terms" I'm sure he won't mind linking me too, that you may find helpful.

Any popular or conmen question and answers I will try my best to update in the OP whenever I can.

Don't feel your question is too stupid to ask.
Once you followed what I said above ask away, that is one of the points of this thread.

My Questions
Okay I've got a few questions that are bugging me lately and I feel if answered would also help out a lot of people

2 in 1 question
Q1. How many frames is the buffer window for reversals/wake ups?
Are all buffer windows for reversals/wake ups universal or do they depend on the move?

Q2. How many frames do you have to tripgaurd an opponents jump in punch, jump in kick, empty jump in and neutral jump punches/kicks? (if not all universal of each other)
Or are they character specific?

Note: when I say tripgaurd I mean the state the opponent is in after his/her jump attack whiffed and the character's feet are grounded during the small window they can't block or hurt me.
Not the recovery of the jump attack

Q3. When opponent delays a get up after a knockdown, how many frames in recovery before being able to execute his/her next attack?

What I mean by this is if I get knocked down and delay my get up how many frames would it take me to wait before I can D1 on the first open frame possible?
Although I am not asking how many frames do you have to wait for Short Delay and Long Delay, an answer to these 2 will definitely be a Bonus but it is not necessary ATM IMO .

-----------------------------------------------
Important Questions With Answers

Q. Can you explain how Frame data is judged in this game, in terms of Start up, active and property of reversal?

Answer(quoted from other thread)

I got tagged quoted in a few posts but I will just say here what is correct and incorrect in this post as it covers the questions other people were asking too.

• It costs 1 frame to unblock before you can start an attack. This is false

This is literally just made up and has no basis from a frame data standpoint. For example, Liu Kang's b1 is 9f start up. Hits on frame 10 at the earliest when done in neutral. Punishes moves that are -10 on block. This would not be possible if there was any unblocking penalty.

• " your first post mentions that Liu Kang's b1 comes out on the 10th frame whereas Lao's spin comes out "in 7 frames." Unless mkxframedata is incorrect, Lao's spin has 7 start up frames, which means it will always come out on frame 8. Startup vs execution frames in this case are irrelevant because both fighters are subject to the same game mechanics."

Reversals hit 1 frame earlier than normals. If you do a Spin in neutral with Kung Lao it will hit in 8 frames, however you can punish moves that are -7 on block with spin due to a special property of reversals that removes 1 frame of blockstun.

In summary, there no "unblocking penalty". This is a bad way of thinking because it makes it sound like moves come out slower when done out of block, which is not the case. However, you can think of reversals getting a bonus. I believe that will help you get the full picture of whats going on in regards to the frame data.


Semi related, since @xarakamaka brought it up, I've considered making a thread regarding the way frame data works in the game, with examples and whatnot, but I haven't got around to it. I know it'd probably help alot but I don't want to half-ass it.

Q. I never really got familiar with fuzzy blocking. How effective is it in mkx and how can you best use it? Which characters is it effective against?( I've heard it's good against Johnny and Scorpion).

Answer.

Ah this I can answer to an extent , and your question also brings up a philosophical question which is "what is the minimum frames you can fuzzy?" And I'd say at least 5

So basically fuzzy blocking is tapping, pressing or holding down for certain moves before release down to stand block or vice versa.

So JC for example 11, OH or 113(low) in not sure by how many frames frame data does not tell you the block stun, but it's easy to tell the low is faster.

That means after 11 you will press down and then release down to block the Overhead so you are covering 2 options in one instance without guessing

To practice this either have a friend or set record in practice to do different sequence of these attacks and if you time what I said above right you should black both the Low/OH without actually guessing which one.

Off the top my head JC, Scorpion, Shinnok, Predator, Ferra/Torr, Kung Lao, Mileana and I'm sure many more chars have fuzzyable 50/50s

Q. How many frames of advantage have you got after MB throw?

Answer

~26 it varies a frame or so for some characters

I think these will do it from me for now. I was going to tag Dizzy as I feel he would know but I do see him get commonly ridiculed with questions, so I don't want to encourage people to tag him or anybody else so I'll leave it out.

I'm also deciding whether to tag a few people that I feel can answer a good chunk of the questions people will ask but I'll see how things go first before I do that.

Apologies for any grammar mistakes as I'm infamous for confusing my "there, Their and they are's "

As I said any notable questions and answered will be updated .

Thanks in advance .

 

[StealthyMuffin]

That seems like a good idea.

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

I know there are a few frames when your diagonal jump attacks can't come out right after you jump (you have to press jump attacks at a certain height). My question is: Is this different for jump kicks and jump punches? Do jump kicks come out slower than jump punches because of this?

 

[IrishMantis]

That seems like a good idea.

This can also go pretty balls where we end with a thread full of questions and 0 answers lol

 

[Redux]

I never really got familiar with fuzzy blocking. How effective is it in mkx and how can you best use it? Which characters is it effective against?( I've heard it's good against Johnny and Scorpion).

 

[Eddy Wang]

trip guards are around -2 to -5 even on njps
empty jumps cannot be trip guarded.

buffer windows for wakeup is highly dependant on the knockdown, its not the same for all moves

 

[IrishMantis]

I never really got familiar with fuzzy blocking. How effective is it in mkx and how can you best use it? Which characters is it effective against?( I've heard it's good against Johnny and Scorpion).

Ah this I can answer to an extent , and your question also brings up a philosophical question which is "what is the minimum frames you can fuzzy?" And I'd say atleast 5

So basically fuzzy blocking is tapping, pressing or holding down for certain moves before release down to stand block or vice versa.

So JC for example 11, OH or 113(low) in not sure by how many frames frame data does not tell you the block stun, but it's easy to tell the low is faster.

That means after 11 you will press down and then release down to block the Overhead so you are covering 2 options in 1 instance without guessing

To practice this either have a friend or set record in practice to do different sequence of these attacks and if you time what I said above right you should black both the Low/OH without actually guessing which 1

Off the top my head JC, Scorpion, Shinnok, Predator, Ferra/Torr, Kung Lao, Mileana and I'm sure many more chars have fuzzyable 50/50s

 

[IrishMantis]

trip guards are around -2 to -5 even on njps
empty jumps cannot be trip guarded.

buffer windows for wakeup is highly dependant on the knockdown, its not the same for all moves

Thanks for this good stuff

Would love the know the exact number I'm greedy

How do you know this?

 

[Redux]

Ah this I can't answer to an extent , and your question also brings up a philosophical question which is "what is the minimum frames you can fuzzy?" And I'd say atleast 5

So basically fuzzy blocking is tapping, pressing or holding down for certain moves before release down to stand block or vice versa.

So JC for example 11, OH or 113(low) in not sure by how many frames frame data does not tell you the block stun, but it's easy to tell the low is faster.

That means after 11 you will press down and then release down to block the Overhead so you are covering 2 options in 1 instance without guessing

To practice this either have a friend or set record in practice to do different sequence of these attacks and if you time what I said above right you should black both the Low/OH without actually guessing which 1

Off the top my head JC, Scorpion, Shinnok, Predator, Ferra/Torr, Kung Lao, Mileana and I'm sure many more chars have fuzzyable 50/50s

damn this makes so much sense lol. Thanks alot.

 

[IrishMantis]

damn this makes so much sense lol. Thanks alot.

No problem atleast it helped someone so now automatically this thread is not a waste

If you don't get a better or clearer answer I'll bang this question and answer in the OP

 

[dennycascade]

Why do I get destroyed by crossups? Online someone will poke at me, I'll block it and attempt to counterpoke with Johnny's d4 or Liu's d3 and they've already begun jumping over me, so I think okay I'll press d4 again and try to low profile their jump. This gets me full combo punished every goddamn time. Even when I'm not recovering from a poke, I'll see someone jump over me, try to time a standing 1 or d2 and get stuffed by everyone. I just get totally fucked every time I try to challenge a jump whether it's a sub zero crossup or just some dumbass jumping in on me from max distance. I'm not sure if this is a matter of me having bad timing on my anti-airs, online being terrible, or my TV having really bad delay. It's a 55 inch and there's a pretty noticeable delay between button presses and when the input shows up in practice mode. I feel like getting a gaming monitor could help me react better to things but might fuck up my run cancel timings. So two questions: How should I change my approach to anti-airs, and will a gaming monitor help me or just fuck me up more?

 

[Eddy Wang]

Thanks for this good stuff

Would love the know the exact number I'm greedy

How do you know this?

most of my mechanics wish list made it into mkx, these used to be in mk9, but they are far more evident in mkx, i used to take advantage of them with skarlet

i.e, in mk9, it was nearly impossible to trip guard jiks, but jips was -5 at the best, colt made all jump attacks with the same propriety in mkx.

the knockdown one is also like in mk9, some attacks let you lay on the ground much shorter or longer than regular, if you don't know them, you're likely to get hit by a meaty thinking you're in the wakeup frame, but you might actually be late or earlier on the timing.

those were the first things i went to see once once i got the game

try with lao
f21
f14
21

all these have a different knockdown stun before your wakeup window gets available.
f21 allows for immediate tech roll
f14 doesn't allow tech roll and has much knockdown stun
21 is like a hard knockdown

 

[IrishMantis]

Btw for the ins answered questions I'm gonna study for a bit so hopefully somebody will hit you up with an answer if not I'll try my best to answer or give my opinion when I'm back

most of my mechanics wish list made it into mkx, these used to be in mk9, but they are far more evident in mkx, i used to take advantage of them with skarlet

i.e, in mk9, it was nearly impossible to trip guard jiks, but jips was -5 at the best, colt made all jump attacks with the same propriety in mkx.

the knockdown one is also like in mk9, some attacks let you lay on the ground much shorter or longer than regular, if you don't know them, you're likely to get hit by a meaty thinking you're in the wakeup frame, but you might actually be late or earlier on the timing.

those were the first things i went to see once once i got the game

try with lao
f21
f14
21

all these have a different knockdown stun before your wakeup window gets available.
f21 allows for immediate tech roll
f14 doesn't allow tech roll and has much knockdown stun
21 is like a hard knockdown

Wouldn't just based on hit advantage rather than wake up buffer?

Yeah your right about tripgaurd it definitely exist, but the crazy the Capcom guys already know their tripgaurd window and reversal buffer window for STV and it's not even out yet

 

[EntropicByDesign]

That seems like a good idea.

I wanna join your clan. Can I be the head of the PC KOFXIII division, all by myself?

 

[countrypistol]

Why do I get destroyed by crossups? Online someone will poke at me, I'll block it and attempt to counterpoke with Johnny's d4 or Liu's d3 and they've already begun jumping over me, so I think okay I'll press d4 again and try to low profile their jump. This gets me full combo punished every goddamn time. Even when I'm not recovering from a poke, I'll see someone jump over me, try to time a standing 1 or d2 and get stuffed by everyone. I just get totally fucked every time I try to challenge a jump whether it's a sub zero crossup or just some dumbass jumping in on me from max distance. I'm not sure if this is a matter of me having bad timing on my anti-airs, online being terrible, or my TV having really bad delay. It's a 55 inch and there's a pretty noticeable delay between button presses and when the input shows up in practice mode. I feel like getting a gaming monitor could help me react better to things but might fuck up my run cancel timings. So two questions: How should I change my approach to anti-airs, and will a gaming monitor help me or just fuck me up more?

The reason you are unable to counter poke online is simply to do with the lag. By the time you are able to react, the window to counter poke has closed. If your opponent is -6 on block, you only have 1/10th of a second to react before they can press a button again. Just think about that for a moment. 1/10th of a second. That's absurdly fast. Now factor in a 10 frame lag delay, that -6 to all intents an purposes becomes a +4 if they dial in the poke and immediately input the jump regardless of if it hits or is blocked. Then you have the start up of your poke, which is at best 6 frames, giving them effectively a 10 frame head start to cross you over.

Your monitor will add even more frames to this if there's a delay (although some TV's have a game mode, so check your settings).

As for anti airs, you're better off looking for habits (I.e. Does your opponent always jump in after a thrown projectile or at a certain distance?) than attempting to react. It's just the nature of the beast when it comes to online I'm afraid.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

I wanna join your clan. Can I be the head of the PC KOFXIII division, all by myself?

I'd honestly allow it.
@FluffyKittenPops

 

[dennycascade]

The reason you are unable to counter poke online is simply to do with the lag. By the time you are able to react, the window to counter poke has closed. If your opponent is -6 on block, you only have 1/10th of a second to react before they can press a button again. Just think about that for a moment. 1/10th of a second. That's absurdly fast. Now factor in a 10sec lag delay, that -6 to all intents an purposes becomes a +4 if they dial in the poke and immediately input the jump regardless of if it hits or is blocked. Then you have the start up of your poke, which is at best 6 frames, giving them effectively a 10 frame head start to cross you over.

Your monitor will add even more frames to this if there's a delay (although some TV's have a game mode, so check your settings).

As for anti airs, you're better off looking for habits (I.e. Does your opponent always jump in after a thrown projectile or at a certain distance?) than attempting to react. It's just the nature of the beast when it comes to online I'm afraid.

Ehh I can't say I'm surprised. I guess I'll just stop myself from challenging jumps from now on. And yeah I'm on game mode but the delay is still very noticeable

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Kofxiii is like SF and MK got super drunk and had bad, regret filled power sex in a shitty hotel room but then like MvC snuck in while they were passed out and stuck.it in so.no one really knows who the dad is so they raised it communally and its real.confused.

 

[IrishMantis]

I know there are a few frames when your diagonal jump attacks can't come out right after you jump (you have to press jump attacks at a certain height). My question is: Is this different for jump kicks and jump punches? Do jump kicks come out slower than jump punches because of this?

Sorry could you reword your question

I'm re-reading over it a couple of times and dont fully understand the question?

 

[The_Tile]

trip guards are around -2 to -5 even on njps
empty jumps cannot be trip guarded.

buffer windows for wakeup is highly dependant on the knockdown, its not the same for all moves

I feel some empty jumps can be trip-guarded, but it definitely isn't easy and you probably only have a frame or so to do it. Unfortunately, I don't have any footage but it seems possible on characters with floaty jumps like Johnny or Kung Jin.

I could be completely wrong, but I'm 99.9% sure I was blocking on my landing frames yet I still got punished by a grounded combo. If you have tested this extensively and I'm wrong just let me know, it's nice info to have.

 

[IrishMantis]

I feel some empty jumps can be trip-guarded, but it definitely isn't easy and you probably only have a frame or so to do it. Unfortunately, I don't have any footage but it seems possible on characters with floaty jumps like Johnny or Kung Jin.

I could be completely wrong, but I'm 99.9% sure I was blocking on my landing frames yet I still got punished by a grounded combo. If you have tested this extensively and I'm wrong just let me know, it's nice info to have.

Yeah would love an an acurate answer to Tripgaurds and the how many frames in this game over than "i feel it may be so and so"

 

[Solignac]

Sorry could you reword your question

I'm re-reading over it a couple of times and dont fully understand the question?

I think he means, when you jump, you can't do a jip or jik the very frame you leave the ground, you have to wait until you are high enough for the command to actually throw the attack out. Essentially, after a non-neutral jump, would a kick or a punch come out faster. Not in terms of the startup frames but in terms of when the move can actually be done whilst in the air.

I imagine this may be different depending on the character, varying jumps speeds, boxes etc

 

[Eddy Wang]

I feel some empty jumps can be trip-guarded, but it definitely isn't easy and you probably only have a frame or so to do it. Unfortunately, I don't have any footage but it seems possible on characters with floaty jumps like Johnny or Kung Jin.

I could be completely wrong, but I'm 99.9% sure I was blocking on my landing frames yet I still got punished by a grounded combo. If you have tested this extensively and I'm wrong just let me know, it's nice info to have.

I can test real quick.

but as far as i know, you're alowed to block on the first available frame post landing if you don't press any of the 4 attacks layouts, if it can be trip guarded it can't be longer than -2 or -1, just a though.

 

[RM Ree]

I have a few questions regarding throws.

1. How fast (in frames) must a throw be teched/ escaped?

2. How + is a MB throw?

 

[IrishMantis]

I have a few questions regarding throws.

1. How fast (in frames) must a throw be teched/ escaped?

2. How + is a MB throw?

Very good question
I've heard 13f but not sure and would like to know too