Match-Up Discussion - A-List A-List vs Ronin

[Asodimazze]

In the last days I had troubles in the Ronin matchup, so I decided to lab it more than I did in the past.
What causes me problems is the range on Takeda normals and the b11 stagger... I don't really know what to do when cornered if my opponent keeps doing b11 at a range where Johnny's moveset seems to be useless. I recorded a video in practice mode that shows the situation:

B11 beats a shadowkick reversal, beats d4, beats neutral and forward jump, beats backdash, beats any fast normal. Beats f3 too but I forgot to record it, you can try it for yourself (b11 is 0 on block. f3 starts in 11, same as b1 but gets beaten because of range).
Looks like the only thing that I can do is spend a bar and use EX Shadowkick or jump back but the opponent can just do b112 and punish my jump anyway, so it's useless.

Does Johnny have any kind of option when he doesn't have a bar?

 

[RyuuJin882]

Unfortunately you have to make a hard read. Very common for characters to get shut down in the corner in mkx....

If you block b11, try a nj, j in or back jump if you don't want to use armor. What about the Dizzy Knee?

 

[KingKhrystopher]

Takeda is far more powerful than a simple backdash. Incompetent Osh-Tekk fool.

 

[Doctor Stabs]

It looks like a range specific issue. Maybe try running forward a tiny bit between strikes then poking.

 

[IrishMantis]

I assure SD has just much as a hard time with even less reward

B11 in the corner is tough as shit, since he can range himself to where Ex NP and F3 won't reach so my best option is either A well times D4 where he can easily whiff punish or Ex SK, but I hate saying armour as its a resource that's not always there.

I haven't played the MU much so it's way too early for me to make judgement but first impressions are the MU did not feel good at all

And Ronin nullifies a weakness Takada has which is no fast wake up, so I can atleast say this (SD) vs Ronin is not a bad MU for Ronin that's for sure.

Would love a Cage video who knows this MU well to make a video showing what to do.
Would really be nice

 

[IrishMantis]

It looks like a range specific issue. Maybe try running forward a tiny bit between strikes then poking.

You won't have enough frames as its 0 on block

 

[kelevra]

Maybe you could Interrupt it with 21 on startup. Just a wild guess

 

[Phosferrax]

B11 fucks a lot of characters up.

 

[Asodimazze]

Maybe you could Interrupt it with 21 on startup. Just a wild guess

I tried, unfortunately 21 is too short.

Unfortunately you have to make a hard read. Very common for characters to get shut down in the corner in mkx....

If you block b11, try a nj, j in or back jump if you don't want to use armor. What about the Dizzy Knee?

Dizzy knee is not shown in the video, I forgot to record it.
B11 is 0 on block and f3 has 11f of startup (just like Ronin b1), but it doesn't work because of range. I've never been able to trade with b1 too, Johnny just gets hit

 

[Generalbit]

Just take it.

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Unfortunately you have to make a hard read. Very common for characters to get shut down in the corner in mkx....

If you block b11, try a nj, j in or back jump if you don't want to use armor. What about the Dizzy Knee?

He mentioned it, it gets beat by b11. Every thing you listed seems to get consistently beaten.

 

[Wigy]

Take a step in if you read a b11 stagger. If he does it again you might be in range for a d4

 

[Somea2V]

Come on Asod, level the freak up. Just use your jailing and machine gun D4 to unlock the super secret top tier status.

 

[Evil_Riu48]

In the last days I had troubles in the Ronin matchup, so I decided to lab it more than I did in the past.
What causes me problems is the range on Takeda normals and the b11 stagger... I don't really know what to do when cornered if my opponent keeps doing b11 at a range where Johnny's moveset seems to be useless. I recorded a video in practice mode that shows the situation:

B11 beats a shadowkick reversal, beats d4, beats neutral and forward jump, beats backdash, beats any fast normal. Beats f3 too but I forgot to record it, you can try it for yourself (b11 is 0 on block. f3 starts in 11, same as b1 but gets beaten because of range).
Looks like the only thing that I can do is spend a bar and use EX Shadowkick or jump back but the opponent can just do b112 and punish my jump anyway, so it's useless.

Does Johnny have any kind of option when he doesn't have a bar?

I do not use cage but what I would try doing is a quick run cancel then block this way the next b11 you will block it at a closer range and you will not longer be at his sweet range after that.

 

[zaccbarias]

hi. so ive been testing around this b11 thing. you can actually space out b11 with d4. you just stay beyond the range of b1(first hit will whiff) you can hit him with d4 before the second hit comes out. the bad thing is even if you can do this, he also has b2 which has deceptively good range.

 

[StealthyMuffin]

Noooooo shhhhh
Talk about Kunai setups instead.

 

[Asodimazze]

It looks like a range specific issue. Maybe try running forward a tiny bit between strikes then poking.

I do not use cage but what I would try doing is a quick run cancel then block this way the next b11 you will block it at a closer range and you will not longer be at his sweet range after that.

It's hard to move forward with Takeda throwing out fast normals, I can only move really slightly...the situation is pretty much the same unfortunately.

hi. so ive been testing around this b11 thing. you can actually space out b11 with d4. you just stay beyond the range of b1(first hit will whiff) you can hit him with d4 before the second hit comes out. the bad thing is even if you can do this, he also has b2 which has deceptively good range.

It's possible to space b11 out at some distance, that's true. But like you said he also has b21, 21...on some ranges the only option seems to waste a bar and go for EX Shadow Kick really.
I'm not going for a nerf campaign, but how many characters get fucked by b11 in the corner?
Shouldn't this move be - on block? Even -2 would do it for Cage

 

[zaccbarias]

i agree that this move should be - on block. cage already has a very good advancing move. imagine the chars who dont. i actually play takeda as my co-main, it is very very good. atleast when you are on the offensive, takeda doesnt have very good armored wakeups but you have to win the neutral first. this is honestly a tough match against cage who relies on footsies.

 

[Wigy]

I really don't want to advertise this as i play ronin, but he can do this to a lot of the cast..

 

[ragnar0kz28]

I really don't want to advertise this as i play ronin, but he can do this to a lot of the cast..

Kitana can D1 or parry so its ok

 

[GrimJack]

Dizzy knee is not shown in the video, I forgot to record it.
B11 is 0 on block and f3 has 11f of startup (just like Ronin b1), but it doesn't work because of range. I've never been able to trade with b1 too, Johnny just gets hit

If you do f3, you need to add 1 frame of release block, which result b1 beats f3 clean if the takeda player does it right.

 

[Wigy]

Kitana can D1 or parry so its ok

Ronin can do 21 on kitana in the corner and it she does rising blades it whiffs through him for full punish if she doesn't wake up hes left at +2.

Dat ronin dirt lol.

 

[IrishMantis]

controversial opinion

Ronin may be one of the best chars at this moment of the games life!

 

[ragnar0kz28]

Ronin can do 21 on kitana in the corner and it she does rising blades it whiffs through him for full punish if she doesn't wake up hes left at +2.

Dat ronin dirt lol.

she can parry I dont play RS

 

[Wigy]

she can parry I dont play RS

Yeah thats fair. Forgot assassin is good now.