Match-up Discussion A General Matchup For Nightwing

[xInfra Deadx]

So what makes nw not top tier?

Zoners and a big issue with avoiding interactables.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

So what makes nw not top tier?

Nightwing is A+ tier lol

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Zatanna can outzone him. That's it.
We can counter zone but only to an extent. It depends on how that player zones with her. If its rings all day switch to staff and counter zone her. If she uses that trans thing then carefully counter zone but block almost everything. If you block trans then ground pound.
Upclose both stances demolish her wakeup game. In staff we control air and footsies @JustPressingButtons

Pretty much the only thing Zatanna has on NW while he's in staff mode is levi, teleport behind for a hopeful combo or just Zatara dive. Other than that as long as NW doesn't jump, and immediately ground pounds once Zatanna goes into trait then we got nothing on ya. Maybe a well time yolo Puppet Master.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Pretty much the only thing Zatanna has on NW while he's in staff mode is levi, teleport behind for a hopeful combo or just Zatara dive. Other than that as long as NW doesn't jump, and immediately ground pounds once Zatanna goes into trait then we got nothing on ya. Maybe a well time yolo Puppet Master.

You gotta be careful on levi because j2 beats you out the air and we WILL d1 you on teleport

 

[HeroesNZ]

Upclose both stances demolish her wakeup game.

How?

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

How?

In staff if she's doing pretty kicks on wakeup try staff spin or standing 1 ground pound. If she teleport away flying Grayson will catch her. In escrima is she teleports away do grounf spark. (The FG and GS only works on reads) if she's doing pretty kicks. Wingdings win

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Those are terrible ideas that are so unfavorable. The risk is off the charts vs minimal reward.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Those are terrible ideas that are so unfavorable. The risk is off the charts vs minimal reward.

What risk

 

[JustPressingButtons]

What risk

You flying Grayson, she teleports behind you. You eat puppet master and rings.

You Staff Spin and she teleports back. You eat puppet master and rings.

You use ground sparks, and she teleports behind you. You enjoy a standing 3 into full combo into whatever set up she wants.

If she pretty kicks and you couldn't stuff the wake up, GG. You randomly ground spark she MB teleports and 112 you GG.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

You flying Grayson, she teleports behind you. You eat puppet master and rings.

You Staff Spin and she teleports back. You eat puppet master and rings.

You use ground sparks, and she teleports behind you. You enjoy a standing 3 into full combo into whatever set up she wants.

If she pretty kicks and you couldn't stuff the wake up, GG. You randomly ground spark she MB teleports and 112 you GG.

Look at Zatanna's frame data. Puppet Master is 25 startup frames and very negative on block. I admit NW doesn't actually crush Zatanna on wakeup as much as Doomsday and some other characters. But Zatanna only suffers from the fact if she just stands and blocks instead of wakeup we face hard pressure cause NW IS PLUS ON FUCKING EVERYTHING

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

But yes we do have the mb wake up teleport behind. I'd honestly suggest not trying to pressure too hard on knockdown cause it can be punishable, just sit and block either the multi kicks or punish the teleport behind. Both NW and Zatanna will suffer if either guesses wrong on wake up and reads.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

You flying Grayson, she teleports behind you. You eat puppet master and rings.

You Staff Spin and she teleports back. You eat puppet master and rings.

You use ground sparks, and she teleports behind you. You enjoy a standing 3 into full combo into whatever set up she wants.

If she pretty kicks and you couldn't stuff the wake up, GG. You randomly ground spark she MB teleports and 112 you GG.

My anti wakeup are reads only. If im in staff and I knock you down I block low and see what you do

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

But yes we do have the mb wake up teleport behind. I'd honestly suggest not trying to pressure too hard on knockdown cause it can be punishable, just sit and block either the multi kicks or punish the teleport behind. Both NW and Zatanna will suffer if either guesses wrong on wake up and reads.

Thats how I see it

 

[JustPressingButtons]

Look at Zatanna's frame data. Puppet Master is 25 startup frames and very negative on block. I admit NW doesn't actually crush Zatanna on wakeup as much as Doomsday and some other characters. But Zatanna only suffers from the fact if she just stands and blocks instead of wakeup we face hard pressure cause NW IS PLUS ON FUCKING EVERYTHING

What does that have to do with what I said? Zatanna doesn't get destroyed on wake up.

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

What does that have to do with what I said? Zatanna doesn't get destroyed on wake up.

Let me break it down for you:

Flying Grayson wiffs and Zatanna teleports behind she does not have enough time to Puppet Master because it happens to be 25 frame start up. She may be able to hit a mb rings, but that I think is blockable. And puppet master on block causes Zatanna to eat at least eat Ground blast chip. If Flying Grason is block, no punish cause only -2 I believe. If Zatanna teleports behind she gets hit, and it flies over multi kicks. Will lose to cards on wakeup however.

Spin staff on wakeup typically isn;t a great idea unless you know they're doing multi kicks. If you do do staff spin and we happen to teleport behind, yes full combo punish. But if we teleport behind then easy punish by NW if he's baiting it.

MB ground pound blows up all of Zatanna's wakeups except for cards and kicks. For some reason it still hits her when she teleports behind. Which is infuriating to say the least. Basically NW shouldn't have to worry about Zatanna distancing herself, so just bait the teleport behind and occasionally throw in a flying grayson or ground pound mb to keep her in check.

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

Let me break it down for you:

Flying Grayson wiffs and Zatanna teleports behind she does not have enough time to Puppet Master because it happens to be 25 frame start up. She may be able to hit a mb rings, but that I think is blockable. And puppet master on block causes Zatanna to eat at least eat Ground blast chip. If Flying Grason is block, no punish cause only -2 I believe. If Zatanna teleports behind she gets hit, and it flies over multi kicks. Will lose to cards on wakeup however.

Spin staff on wakeup typically isn;t a great idea unless you know they're doing multi kicks. If you do do staff spin and we happen to teleport behind, yes full combo punish. But if we teleport behind then easy punish by NW if he's baiting it.

MB ground pound blows up all of Zatanna's wakeups except for cards and kicks. For some reason it still hits her when she teleports behind. Which is infuriating to say the least. Basically NW shouldn't have to worry about Zatanna distancing herself, so just bait the teleport behind and occasionally throw in a flying grayson or ground pound mb to keep her in check.

Exatcly. And Flying Grayson is -4 on block

 

[KillaGthug4Life]

Oh ok, so we get a free d1 kicks that force you to block. If we time it perfectly and in online it's difficult to pull of regardless.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Flying Grayson has better block advantage if it's blocked further out to the point that it's plus.

Still...it's a high and most D2's will hit it.