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A few things about explodey guy

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
What he's saying is that the tech only works if you crossup because the specific string throws them into the corner.

If you don't crossup and do the combo, it throws them out of the corner.

The only way this ever works is if you try to jump over them, which means they only have to block one way, thus they block correctly and completely negate the setup, hence him saying it would never see the light of day in the first place.

That's my take on his question, anyway.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner of the reading comprehension challenge! Thank you, @Eldriken, for always understanding words and stuff lol.
 

BxKeyz

Noob
What he's saying is that the tech only works if you crossup because the specific string throws them into the corner.

If you don't crossup and do the combo, it throws them out of the corner.

The only way this ever works is if you try to jump over them, which means they only have to block one way, thus they block correctly and completely negate the setup, hence him saying it would never see the light of day in the first place.

That's my take on his question, anyway.
Okay and I'm saying that you don't always have to go towards the set up. It's just tech it's all. All set ups have a weakness and that's why you gather different offensive approaches. Jumping attacks open people up in this game more than grounded attacks imo. Because jumping attacks can be a better 50/50 in the corner but these guys think that they really blocking jumping attacks because they believe that they can't get opened up by it when it fact this game thrives of neutral and cross up jumping attacks in the corner. The blocking engine being the main reason.
 

BxKeyz

Noob
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner of the reading comprehension challenge! Thank you, @Eldriken, for always understanding words and stuff lol.
Funny because you're having issues understanding me. I told you this was not about openers or damage. This video showcases that darkseid has otg potential with plus frames if blocked. Now I understand that it is only of one string but it's not my fault that darkseid is very hard to be creative with. He's pretty straight forward once in the corner. All I wanted to do was show another offensive approach.
 
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Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
Funny because you're having issues understanding me. I told you this was not about openers or damage. This video showcases that darkseid has otg potential with plus frames if blocked. Now I understand that it is of one string but it's not my fault that darkseid is very hard to be creative with. He's pretty straight forward once in the corner. All I wanted to do was show another offensive approach.

All I did was REPEATEDLY ask if the only way to set this alleged tech up was off the not-even-a-little-bit-ambiguous cross-up j2 in the corner that you kept doing so I could assess the practicality of the actual tech itself that followed that part of the equation, and all you actually did was skirt the question, get defensive and continue to rant about everything that happens AFTER the tech is set-up, even though there's clearly no way to actually set it up or you'd have had a real answer.

So that's really cool, I'm glad that if you happen to get an exploding parademon out in the corner and then jump into the corner while your opponent simultaneously wakes up off the ground and DROPS THEIR FUCKING CONTROLLER, you can then set this super dope tech up that beats their following wake-up attacks lul.
 
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What's the point in making them guess again if you land a jump 2? Why not just go into the 40-50% combos?
This isn't very practical cause the 12 1+3 only works as an OTG on the grounded opponent, if the opponent is in the juggled state the explosive parademon will combo, so you can only do this set up off j2 or raw 12 1+3.
But this begs a question: why go for 13% and potential mix off j2 on hit, if you can go into full 40-50% combo?
This is literally what I have been asking, and all I get "it's just another option"... An option to do 13% and get plus frames...ok)
 
Is there some way to set a minion and end a combo with 12 1+23 all in the same combo? If so this tech could still be useful. I'm not at my PS4 so I can't check but I feel like something that might work is stomp MB > b3 > dash, d2 xx summon minion > 12 1+23. That's midscreen, I can't think of a corner route that would work.
 
Is there some way to set a minion and end a combo with 12 1+23 all in the same combo? If so this tech could still be useful. I'm not at my PS4 so I can't check but I feel like something that might work is stomp MB > b3 > dash, d2 xx summon minion > 12 1+23. That's midscreen, I can't think of a corner route that would work.
Have you read my previous posts, the 121+3 plus the exploding demon restands and resets the combo only on grounded opponent) if the opponent is juggled the explosion will not restand and will combo for like no damage so the j2, 121+3 is the maximum damage into this set up , and it is 13%. That is why I am saying that it is a waste of a combo opportunity.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
What's the point in making them guess again if you land a jump 2? Why not just go into the 40-50% combos?
What if you dont have the meter for that 45% combo? Or what if its the end of the first round and they are under 20% and you want to save that bar for the next round? Then you do this and otg into plus frames then chip out and get some meter build.
 
What if you dont have the meter for that 45% combo? Or what if its the end of the first round and they are under 20% and you want to save that bar for the next round? Then you do this and otg into plus frames then chip out and get some meter build.
They can push block you if you going to cheap them out, Just do cross up j2, 22xxteleport, explosion, j3xxstomp - it does way over 20% for no bar and both teleport and stomp build meter in the process)
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Which builds more meter tho? Most people wont pushblock when on a magic pixel at the end of first round. Especially against darkseid when he has explosive demon already out and on you.
 
Which builds more meter tho? Most people wont pushblock when on a magic pixel at the end of first round. Especially against darkseid when he has explosive demon already out and on you.
The demon is already gone to get the restand! When you are going for chip out it is just Darkseid and his shitty strings, Why not pushblock to save your magic pixel and try to make a come back?!? Doing what I said guarantees the finish of the round without meter, and builds some, even if this set up option builds more it doesn't guarantee the kill and does less damage:/
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
The demon is already gone to get the restand! When you are going for chip out it is just Darkseid and his shitty strings, Why not pushblock to save your magic pixel and try to make a come back?!? Doing what I said guarantees the finish of the round without meter, and builds some, even if this set up option builds more it doesn't guarantee the kill and does less damage:/
They wont pushblock because even without demon Darkseid can just fill the screen with a laser shot immediately and then they lost a bar and are still in the corner. This is also good if you want to reset them into unclashable damage. I dont understand why everyone is so eager to dismiss otg reset into full combo just because it is situational. Also in your scenario it is not a gaurunteed finish either because they can air escape out of the comboand potentially punish the whiffed stomp where as this keeps them fully grounded so they cannot.
 
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They wont pushblock because even without demon Darkseid can just fill the screen with a laser shot immediately and then they lost a bar and are still in the corner. This is also good if you want to reset them into unclashable damage. I dont understand why everyone is so eager to dismiss otg reset into full combo just because it is situational. Also in your scenario it is not a gaurunteed finish either because they can air escape out of the comboand potentially punish the whiffed stomp where as this keeps them fully grounded so they cannot.
Let's see, to fill the screen with laser you will have to spend a bar as Darkseid (you have said that you either don't have meter or don't want to spend it to end the round). So they spend a bar to get you off one of yours? Seems like an alright trade of to me.
If they air escape- they spend 2 bars and end up in the corner, they can only do it after the explosion, when you are jumping at them with j3xxStomp and their back to the corner. Don't wanna waste a bar to pushblock on a magic pixel but do want to waste 2 in a situation where you will just end up back in the combo?
Everyone is so eager to dismiss an otg reset into the restand because it can only restand a grounded opponent so only off a 13% combo.. in order to do it you open them up with the explody guy out, but you just do 13% into another potential pressure/mix instead instead of 30+% meterlessly which you can do without meter with the explody guy out. Very questionable decision ))))but I mean I am tired of trying to show you and the op that it isn't optimal to say the least, in the end of the day it is you way of playing the character. People online do even more stupid shit when they open you up, I guess I can't tell you not to do that)
But I am glad that some top players who saw this thread are asking the same questions I did.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Lol at "darkseid is very hard to be creative with"

Look, keyz, you're trying way too hard to upplay this tech by trying to say the game is more about crossup jump normals and that it's easier to open them up with those than grounded normals (which is your opinion, and since anti airing is so good idk about that one). People understand what it's for and noone is saying that demon OTGing from grounded 121+3 is dogshit, but it's the particular setup you're using and trying to justify that's the issue. There may be times where this is more useful but 99% of the time you're better off just getting a combo after landing a J2, that's what people are trying to say. The tech is fine, the setup is usually going to be pointless.
 

GuerillaTactix

#bufftakeda
Good stuff OP! I just don't understand why are people so upset? It seems like another potato set up into a potato mix up that could potentially make french fries out of all these other potatoes. Stay crispy friends.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
What if you dont have the meter for that 45% combo? Or what if its the end of the first round and they are under 20% and you want to save that bar for the next round? Then you do this and otg into plus frames then chip out and get some meter build.
Probably because you can't "do this and otg into plus frames" if getting to the otg part of it relies on them not blocking the easily blockable part of it.
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
Everyone is so eager to dismiss an otg reset into the restand because it can only restand a grounded opponent so only off a 13% combo.. in order to do it you open them up with the explody guy out, but you just do 13% into another potential pressure/mix instead instead of 30+% meterlessly which you can do without meter with the explody guy out.
I think you're making a great point about the practicality (or lack thereof) too, but for me the bigger picture is that you actually won't even be able to open them up into that 13% combo in the first place because it has to come off a jump-over j2 into the corner that always crosses up and therefore can be blocked on reaction the same way every single time anyway lol.

But you do have a valid point that even if you do somehow manage to actually land that j2 there are still always better follow-up options anyway. It's a damn shame and I wish there was a legitimate way of setting this up because the exploding demon otg'ing off the 121+3 is actually really cool and would probably catch a lot of people off guard.

It's funny that someone else found this months ago and dismissed it as impractical though and now we're dealing with this lol.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
Are u really saying you should never be opened up by cross over j2 in the corner? Against Darkseid.. the character that can instantly change his jump arc into a low or air teleport to prevent him from even crossing up in the first place?
 

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
Premium Supporter
Are u really saying you should never be opened up by cross over j2 in the corner? Against Darkseid.. the character that can instantly change his jump arc into a low or air teleport to prevent him from even crossing up in the first place?

Well air teleport is the most reactable move in the entire game and even if you tried to anti-air the cross-over j2 instead of just defending it and whiffed because they teleported instead you'd still have time to at least guess the ensuing mix-up if not outright still be able to anti-air them out of that too with most characters lol. And that also doesn't lead to this set-up.

And neither does the low. And I'm not even going to get into how there are better ways to at least try and defend Darkseid's mix potential off a cornered jump-over than to just straight up hold down, but like we've all said above, even if you did manage to catch someone with that j2 there are always better options off that then dialing in a 121+3 regardless.

I'm really tired of this back and forth here so I'm going to leave it at the only point I've been trying to make: while the otg tech is really cool in and of itself, the only means of setting it up seems impractical and non-optimal af.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Hoooly shit, you guys. The concept is amazing, but the reward is peanuts.

Need anything further be said? Come on. Y'all are making a mountain out of a fucking molehill.

I wouldn't use my trait for a 13% restand unless it's to guarantee me winning via chip.

This setup is impractical because of how you have to go about setting it up. The tech itself is legit. Perhaps more can be found by using it as a foundation.
 

Wetdoba

All too easy...
No one is saying this tech is suppose to be abusable and be the new standard, its situational, but I dont understand people coming here saying it is "useless" when it is clearly not.
I wouldn't use my trait for a 13% restand unless it's to guarantee me winning via chip.
Already confirmed not useless

Perhaps more can be found by using it as a foundation.
Then there is this aspect. But instead of trying to add to the discussion people would rather shut it down because they are so sure there is no more applications to this at all. And people wonder why no one posts shit to this site anymore and are all in discord lol
 
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Eldriken

Guest
No one is saying this tech is suppose to be abusable and be the new standard, its situational, but I dont understand people coming here saying it is "useless" when it is clearly not.

Already confirmed not useless


Then there is this aspect. But instead of trying to add to the discussion people would rather shut it down because they are so sure there is no more applications to this at all. And people wonder why no one posts shit to this site anymore and are all in discord lol
This is true and I agree. But it goes both ways. Some people ought to be more receptive of criticism, but at the same time, folks ought to be better at doling it out.
 
No one is saying this tech is suppose to be abusable and be the new standard, its situational, but I dont understand people coming here saying it is "useless" when it is clearly not.

Already confirmed not useless


Then there is this aspect. But instead of trying to add to the discussion people would rather shut it down because they are so sure there is no more applications to this at all. And people wonder why no one posts shit to this site anymore and are all in discord lol
Just to be clear I messed with this OTG concept a lot (and I mean ALOT) since it was posted by ESP black back in June. On top of that I labbed a lot of other tech Darkseid has to offer. That is why I am saying it is useless, not because I have just seen it and because of my lack of imagination ready to dismiss it as such.