50/50, Vortex, Reset. Whats the difference?

[Notez4]

Discuss.

 

[Zyphox]

i voted no but to lazy to tell you why.

 

[Filipino Man]

Vortex loops into itself over and over again (example : the sinestro vortex)

50/50s are either high low or left right blocks (such as wonderwoman's 3 versus her b2)

Resets are purposes dropping combos to get more damage and better positioning or get another combo starter (like dive punch resets and force stands mid screen for Wonder Woman) it resets the situation

They are not the same but there can be 2 in 1 and stuff. Yknow?

 

[WayoftheFist]

Vortex loops into itself over and over again (example : the sinestro vortex)

50/50s are either high low or left right blocks (such as wonderwoman's 3 versus her b2)

Resets are purposes dropping combos to get more damage and better positioning or get another combo starter (like dive punch resets and force stands mid screen for Wonder Woman) it resets the situation

They are not the same but there can be 2 in 1 and stuff. Yknow?

This ^.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

Vortex loops into itself over and over again (example : the sinestro vortex)

50/50s are either high low or left right blocks (such as wonderwoman's 3 versus her b2)

Resets are purposes dropping combos to get more damage and better positioning or get another combo starter (like dive punch resets and force stands mid screen for Wonder Woman) it resets the situation

They are not the same but there can be 2 in 1 and stuff. Yknow?

Would it be fair to say then that all vortex's are 50/50s, but not all 50/50s are vortexs?

 

[Laos_boy]

You forgot damage exploits aka The Joker

 

[Filipino Man]

Would it be fair to say then that all vortex's are 50/50s, but not all 50/50s are vortexs?

For the purpose of this game absolutely, but in other games unblockables can loop into one another and that's not 50-50 per say

 

[Lone]

Bah, I was beaten to the punch. I'll still leave this here since I typed so much.

I'll elaborate briefly and let someone else go further in depth. This will be very short, it also assumes that whomever reads this has a decent grasp on the characters in Injustice.

A perfect example of a character that has 50/50s would be the Flash. His d1d2 string is a low and his f21 sting is an overhead(has to be blocked standing) option. They both can be used to initiate his combos. So, essentially, a 50/50 ***traditionally*** consists of a unreactable low and overhead. Thus the term. **** Denotes an exception, continue reading during the reset explanation, please.

We can use Kilker Frost as the subject for the vortex. She has F3 and Slide(or b1 into slide) to 50/50 you. Both are, of course, unreactable. In order to possess a vortex, a character must have the 50/50 option, they just have the potential to put you in the same state to guess between overhead or low, continuously. KF does this by using her command grab special and meter burning it after she juggles you, usually.

So, see here, F3 or slide into bnb ended with her MB command grab(you're frozen and KF is at advantage, you can't wake up because you're placed into a standing position, you simply must block high or low). Forcing you to guess high or low, and you must choose so quickly.

And finally, a reset. Batman is our candidate here. He can use MB straight grapple after a bnb to stun you long enough for him to attack you(or pressure)without you being able to counterattack. He lacks quick, unreactable 50/50s, so he doesn't have the ability to execute traditional vortexes. He does, however, have a 50/50 cross up option with j2 after a MB straight grapple. It's just nontraditional.

Probably confusing but yes, my poor attempt at clarifying. And sorry, this actually ended up being quite long winded and not brief at all.

Spelling errors, ugh.

 

[Rip Torn]

Would it be fair to say then that all vortex's are 50/50s, but not all 50/50s are vortexs?

Not all vortex's are 50/50's. Some vortex's loop on oki setups and others with 50/50's and others with ambiguous cross up's.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Xian had an interesting take on what true 50/50s are. He doesn't consider a lot of vortexes and unblockables in AE as pure 50/50.

A true 50/50 is when you have no other choice but to guess left or right, or overhead/low. It means you are deprived of escape options and it's impossible to react. If you have any other option, for example if you can escape in any way (fuzzy guarding, FADC, pushblock/alpha counter, mb b3, jumping away, backdashing, reversal etc) then you break the 50/50 and you can turn it into a 50/50 in your favor (or less disadvantageous) and make the opponent guess if you are going to escape the 50/50 or take it.

Anyway he explained it a lot better lol. I think it was the 1st episode of Xian Academy.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Would it be fair to say then that all vortex's are 50/50s, but not all 50/50s are vortexs?

Some characters (eg. Zatanna) have 33/33/33 mixups options with overhead/low/crossup. This is not a 50/50 but if it loops back into itself it's considered a vortex.

 

[Filipino Man]

Some characters (eg. Zatanna) have 33/33/33 mixups options with overhead/low/crossup. This is not a 50/50 but if it loops back into itself it's considered a vortex.

33/33/33 are actually 66/33 because the opponent can only choose one direction and you have a 2/3 chance of picking an option he won't block .

 

[Eddy Wang]

Vortex loops into itself over and over again (example : the sinestro vortex)

50/50s are either high low or left right blocks (such as wonderwoman's 3 versus her b2)

Resets are purposes dropping combos to get more damage and better positioning or get another combo starter (like dive punch resets and force stands mid screen for Wonder Woman) it resets the situation

They are not the same but there can be 2 in 1 and stuff. Yknow?

exactly this.
You can reset to get a vortex or a 50/50 afterwards if your character was blessed for tools to do so.

Ibuki's combos into command dash is a reset that can ends into a 50/50.

 

[Pan1cMode]

33/33/33 are actually 66/33 because the opponent can only choose one direction and you have a 2/3 chance of picking an option he won't block .

Oh I understand that. The probabilities I was listing was the chance of blocking each option, not the chance of hitting the opponent.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

um like as a killer frost player i can say

she has 50/50 after her flash freeze
after a hard knockdown (u3) she has a vortex
and reset would be after you parry then back 3 then jump 3 slide u3 and dash out to go for vortex

 

[Vak Phoenix]

um like as a killer frost player i can say

she has 50/50 after her flash freeze
after a hard knockdown (u3) she has a vortex
and reset would be after you parry then back 3 then jump 3 slide u3 and dash out to go for vortex

 

[Pan1cMode]

um like as a killer frost player i can say

she has 50/50 after her flash freeze
after a hard knockdown (u3) she has a vortex
and reset would be after you parry then back 3 then jump 3 slide u3 and dash out to go for vortex

Standing resets are also examples of vortexes. I think you're stuck in the Street Fighter mentality that it has to be after a hard knockdown; that's not true.

• Reset: As a combo continues, each move does progressively less damage then it would had the attack been performed outside of a combo. A reset is a situation that resets the combo hit counter so as to counteract damage scaling. Some resets involve a hard knock down while others may involve a standing reset.

• Vortex: A reset which loops back into itself. eg. BG's vortex after bola, KF's vortex after freeze, Sinestro's vortex after shackles, GL's vortex after MB db1.

• 50/50: Refers to a state in which you have the choice to attack with one of two options which can’t be defended against simultaneously (eg. an overhead and a low). Your opponent must guess which of the two options you will use as they can’t defend against both.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Standing resets are also examples of vortexes. I think you're stuck in the Street Fighter mentality that it has to be after a hard knockdown; that's not true.

• Reset: As a combo continues, each move does progressively less damage then it would had the attack been performed outside of a combo. A reset is a situation that resets the combo hit counter so as to counteract damage scaling. Some resets involve a hard knock down while others may involve a standing reset.

• Vortex: A reset which loops back into itself. eg. BG's vortex after bola, KF's vortex after freeze, Sinestro's vortex after shackles, GL's vortex after MB db1.

• 50/50: Refers to a state in which you have the choice to attack with one of two options which can’t be defended against simultaneously (eg. an overhead and a low). Your opponent must guess which of the two options you will use as they can’t defend against both.

yeah thats what i said i mean jack daniels did

 

[Temjiin]

Shouldn't a 50/50 be classed as a situation where both options have relatively similar outcomes, i.e high damage or a combo? Because otherwise doesn't every character with a low poke like D1 or D4 and an overhead have a 50/50 most of the time that the opponent is at minus frames?

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Shouldn't a 50/50 be classed as a situation where both options have relatively similar outcomes, i.e high damage or a combo? Because otherwise doesn't every character with a low poke like D1 or D4 and an overhead have a 50/50 most of the time that the opponent is at minus frames?

Not necessarily. A 50/50 is a mixup. You can have cross-up mixups or overhead/low mixups. But there are also other kinds. For example frametrap or throw is a 50/50 even if throw doesn't do much damage. The counter hit leads to a full combo so it can be scarier. But the throw can lead to vortexes (at least in SF games) and reverse position.

Of course counter hit hunting is a lot more relevant in SF and Tekken than in Injustice or MK. But it's just an example of mixup that doesn't have similar outcome.

Another example is safe jumping or OSing. You either bait and punish the wake up attack with a safe jump/empty jump or you option-select to chase backdash/teleports. Even if the outcome is just an OS sweep or OS DP, it's still a mixup.

And in some games, some characters also have projectile based 50/50s.


If you want to learn HOW NOT TO mixup, watch Green Lantern players giving up 20% guaranteed for 10% more potential damage. :16Bit

 

[Tony at Home]

50/50 is guessing between high and low

Vortex is a setup that guarantees continual 50/50's/

A reset is a dumb bug that gets around damage scaling.

 

[Inevpatoria]

So, in the case of something like Sonic Fox's Batgirl pressure, is that a vortex that incorporates 50/50s, a standing reset that incorporates 50/50s, or just, plainly, a 50/50?

This is a great thread, by the way.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

A reset is a dumb bug that gets around damage scaling.

NRS games have corrupted our youth!

Only MK/Injustice players call glitches and inescapable OTGs resets.

If you can't block and can't escape the follow up it's not really a reset. It's an unintentional glitch that NRS was unable to fix or that they made worse by trying to fix something else. But we left them in the game because LOL why not he needz it.

 

[RikoLaw]

:tonytTrue resets are unblockable - Cyrax

 

[Vulcan Hades]

lol best use of Tony-T's face yet.