KI Gold with a facelift.

[Sultani]

As I play this game more and more, the less I like it. There's too many characters where the effective tactic is just to repeat the same three button juggle string and then finish it with a 2 - 3 button string at the end. Some of these characters have strings that are fast enough that they can just repeat them even if they're blocked. Some even faster than pokes. What this game really needs is the ability to punish ANY blocked string.

Characters like Smoke, Jax, Johnny Cage, Raiden, Kabal, Sub Zero, Liu Kang, Kano.. etc can just stand in front of you and press three buttons over and over again... completely safe because there's no penalty for having the string blocked. At least in trilogy if you blocked a combo you could punish it... which is true for only some characters here and not for others.. I'm also curious as to why Mileena can poke into combos when the ability to do that has been removed from pretty much every other character?

Some of these characters have strings can even stop wakeup attacks AND wakeup teleports... if I wanted to press the same three buttons over and over again, just dial it in and then watch the pretty combo animation happen afterwards, I'd play killer instinct.

In short, the inability to punish repeatable three button strings turns this game into a gigantic three button repeat juggling KI Gold with an MK facelift cheesefest.

Some of the strings were patched to be made punishable.. like raiden's b3, 1, 2.. Really, let's change the adv of that one and not the 334 string that raiden is cheesing the hell out of peopl in the corner with?

Too many patches where none were needed, wrong things getting patched when other things are bigger problems... things getting taken out for certain characters and left in for others... It makes me wonder if NRS even plays this game.

 

[DrDogg]

Um... not sure why you think KI Gold was like that. High level KI was nothing like what you're describing, even the lackluster KI2/Gold.

Moving on from that, in high level play every fighting game boils down to what's safe and what's unsafe, but worth the risk. So even if half of the canned strings in the game were punishable, people would still focus primarily on the safe strings and you'd have the exact same situation you're complaining about now.

This game definitely has flaws (throw breaking, jump punches, etc.), and I'm not a fan of how safe everything is, but the safety of the attacks isn't really a big problem.

 

[rotanadan]

Why should any string be safe to just repeat over and over till they let go of block? Shouldnt/do they all have at least SOME time to counter/get away when blocked.

 

[Rathalos]

Too many patches where none were needed, wrong things getting patched when other things are bigger problems... things getting taken out for certain characters and left in for others... It makes me wonder if NRS even plays this game

90% of the things that were patched were most definitely needed, sure cage/nightwolf didn't need armor moves, quan chi probably didn't need to be nerfed so hard, and smoke OTG could have stayed, though its still kinda in the game, just less powerful, everything else has made the game much better.

I get it, you're fucking upset they removed cyrax's bomb trap, hes still a great character, still one of the best in the game, you either need to get over it, or drop this game, because this is one thing I do not see them reverting.

Also have you ever actually played KI cause thats not really how that game worked.

 

[DrDogg]

Why should any string be safe to just repeat over and over till they let go of block? Shouldnt/do they all have at least SOME time to counter/get away when blocked.

Safe and advantage are two different things. I don't know any strings in the game that can be repeated over and over (block infinite). Every character aside from maybe Shang can interrupt with a d+1 or d+3 in most cases.

 

[MKF30]

I don't see how KIG which is far broken and unbalanced is comparable to a solid game like MK9....sure it's not "perfect" no fighter is, but the game is always getting patched, improved, updated so who cares? Also, I've noticed some people don't like some patches that were logical and common sense.

Apples and Oranges.....and I don't agree that MK is like KI where MK not only came out first but was the first fighter to introduce actual juggle combos....technically.

I also don't like everything being unsafe but definitely am not for everything being safe either.

 

[DrDogg]

I don't see how KIG which is far broken and unbalanced is comparable to a solid game like MK9....sure it's not "perfect" no fighter is, but the game is always getting patched, improved, updated so who cares? Also, I've noticed some people don't like some patches that were logical and common sense.

Apples and Oranges.....and I don't agree that MK is like KI where MK not only came out first but was the first fighter to introduce actual juggle combos....technically.

I also don't like everything being unsafe but definitely am not for everything being safe either.

Please explain how KI2/Gold is broken and unbalanced. I highly doubt you know anything about high level KI.

 

[MKF30]

I'm pretty certain I know what I'm talking about since I had the game for years....

A few things, A. You are aware that KIG is a very broken game right? And where did I say KI2? I said KIG....What tournaments is it played at within the past 10 years? B. Since it can be played at such a high level, any game can technically be played at a higher level it doesn't mean it's good or balanced though... lol KI 1 was still the best at least to me anyway, and the series has been dead forever now...but that aside. KIG should not be compared to MK9 my main point....The game hasn't even been out a year but only a few months and already seen more tournaments career wise then KIG ever did...

You don't have to be a bigtime tournament player to understand a game's mechanics Dr.Dog...


Yeah...this isn't remotely broken...

 

[burnthismfdown]

this reminds me of mk2 when i would play someone who didnt know how to escape sweeps

id sweep them over and over until they were dead

if you cant figure it out, maybe you should play a different kind of game

 

[Sultani]

First, never once did I mention the bomb trap here.. I'm through bitching about that one.. I was more talking about kabals poke to spin being taken out, but mileena's poke to roll is still in.

I wasn't really talking about high level KI Gold. just that it was stupid that combos were performed by repeating 2 - 3 buttons.

I understand that it's all about unsafe vs safe. But your statement that if repeat on block strings were less safe, that we'd somehow be in the same situation, simply doesnt't make any sense at all. Why would people be repeating strings that are way too safe over and over again if they were made to be unsafe? That doesn't make sense.

All I'm saying is that there are definitely strings that are way too safe for how stupidly easy they are to perform. I don't need to play a different game.. I win alot at this one.. I jsut find the effective tactics of certain characters to be extremely cheesey.

 

[Lawbrkr]

Just curious , problem is online or offline? Online is irrelavent

 

[Sultani]

Just curious , problem is online or offline? Online is irrelavent

Hmm.. I'm trying to figure out wy this matters. It's not like the button presses you use to do combos is different depending on if you're playing offline or online.

there seems to be an assumption here that's not true.

I'm not getting all pissy because I'm getting consistently demolished and then claiming that the game is broken.. I'm simply subjectively stating that I don't think certain strings should be as safe as they are, and fundamentally I don't like how these relatively safe strings consist of repeating the same couple of buttons. that's all I'm saying.

My OP started with a personal opinion of the game.. refutation or disagreement doesn't need to include flaming when it was pretty clearly stated from the get go that this is nothing more than an opinion..

 

[burnthismfdown]

the strings arent too safe, you just dont know what to do against them

and your cheesy tactics work because the people you play with have that same problem

 

[THTB]

At least in trilogy if you blocked a combo you could punish it.

LOL. Unless an autocombo ended up whiffing, they were 100% safe.

And a lot of your post is just misinformation and all over just seems like salt from losing one too many times.

 

[Lawbrkr]

I thought by the original post you had problems with pressure from opponents. Which is alot harder to punish online and can feel like your in a block infinte. That being said, How do you make it better? There has to be some sort of balance.

 

[Sultani]

LOL. Unless an autocombo ended up whiffing, they were 100% safe.

And a lot of your post is just misinformation and all over just seems like salt from losing one too many times.

Ok, so there's certain things in my rant that are just wrong.

but again, this has nothing to do with the results of my matches. Simply that I don't really get the reasoning behind why some strings are much safer than others, and I guess now that I mention it, why some strings have the subsequent advantage (or lack of) that they do on block, and other similar strings don't.

But yea, still.. why can kabal no longer d4 to spin, but mileena can still poke to roll? things like that... what's the reasoning for that? Or is it just another oversight?

 

[THTB]

It's all just how the characters are. Some characters just have better strings than others. If every string had the same risks and rewards for each specific type, this game would be a lot more boring.

And you're still wrong on stuff even in that post. Kabal was never able to link d4 into spin. He could do d4 xx spin cancel for a block infinite. Mileena could never combo a generic low into a roll. Just...stop spouting incorrect stuff.

Really, you just seem to be complaining about things you really know very little about.

 

[DrDogg]

I'm pretty certain I know what I'm talking about since I had the game for years....

A few things, A. You are aware that KIG is a very broken game right? And where did I say KI2? I said KIG....What tournaments is it played at within the past 10 years? B. Since it can be played at such a high level, any game can technically be played at a higher level it doesn't mean it's good or balanced though... lol KI 1 was still the best at least to me anyway, and the series has been dead forever now...but that aside. KIG should not be compared to MK9 my main point....The game hasn't even been out a year but only a few months and already seen more tournaments career wise then KIG ever did...

You don't have to be a bigtime tournament player to understand a game's mechanics Dr.Dog...


Yeah...this isn't remotely broken...

Seriously?

KI2 = KI Gold. That's pretty common knowledge.

For you to say the game is broken by showing an infinite combo (which can be broken before the infinite), in a time before patches were commonplace is a bit ridiculous. That combo you showed simply doesn't happen in high level KI2.

Also, to compare the tournament scene of KI to the tournament scene of MK9 is also ridiculous. It was a far different time. You couldn't just post up on a message board so thousands of people will hear about your tournament. There were local tournaments all the time for KI 2. I'd say there were more local KI tournaments than there were local MK2/3 tournaments (in my area) back then.

You're right that any game can be played at a high level. My point is that KI is a completely different game at high levels and far less broken and unbalanced. Your lack of high level knowledge means that you're unaware of this. It's like saying Eddy Gordo is broken in Tekken. Scrubs think so and will argue to death about it, but at high levels Eddy isn't even considered top tier.

I wasn't really talking about high level KI Gold. just that it was stupid that combos were performed by repeating 2 - 3 buttons.

I understand that it's all about unsafe vs safe. But your statement that if repeat on block strings were less safe, that we'd somehow be in the same situation, simply doesnt't make any sense at all. Why would people be repeating strings that are way too safe over and over again if they were made to be unsafe? That doesn't make sense.

Name one fighting game that doesn't have combos that consist of hitting 2-3 buttons... >_>

Also, my point about safe vs. unsafe is that if you have 100 moves and 100 of them are safe, people will use up to 100 moves. But if you have 100 moves and only 30 of them are safe, people will stick to those 30 moves for the most part. So you'd still see the repeated attacks.

 

[Sinister_M]

To be honest the more i play this game the more i hate it. This is the only game where poking isnt even a tactic as most pokes only do 1-2% damage. Poking is only for stuffing attacks then you go back to your muscle memorized combos. dail em up and watch 'em hit dash in dail em up and watch 'em get breakered. It seriously just looks like a loop lather, rinse repeat. That is the impression i am getting at the moment and it has made me play more just to try to dispell that feeling. cos it think i am getting it wrong.

Dial up combos must go. Block stun and hit stun need to be reworked. The idea that a blocked sub slide leave you there for more than a second is just dumb? What kind of a fighter uses such a move?

I know MK is trying to differentiate for SF but there are some common sense designs that exist in all fighting games that have become the building blocks of most good fighting games that mk just ignores. jP pressure is just plain stupid. All characters being the same height and of the same body type and same juggle time is also dumb. Stiff and ugly animations also removes from the immersion.
Walking is not really an option in this game. Jumping is safer in most cases.
Also NRS character patching based on fan cries is ridiculous. The unnecessary character tweaks are also ridiculous.

This is just my rant. I have been wandering is anyone also felt the same way. I have been raging hard since the patch and scarlet arrived and since i played AE and VF5 recently. Quit more matches and lost more even changed my main character. This has never happened in any other game for me.

 

[Rathalos]

Quit more matches and lost more even changed my main character. This has never happened in any other game for me.

Also NRS character patching based on fan cries is ridiculous. The unnecessary character tweaks are also ridiculous.

Just curious, what was your main before you changed it? The only character that got serious negative changes was quan chi, and I'm pretty sure that wasn't because of bitching.

Also you might as well just drop this game, there not going to ever change dial combos, super unsafe specials, and there is no way in hell they would ever make poking lead to big damage and hitconfirms. JP pressure is something I could see them changing though, but not by a whole lot.

Characters are all the same size because of the x-ray nonsense, I guess they don't want to design a skeleton model for everycharacter, at least this is what I assume, I never played any of the 3D MK's so all characters being the same might have been in those games too.

 

[MKF30]

Seriously?

KI2 = KI Gold. That's pretty common knowledge.

For you to say the game is broken by showing an infinite combo (which can be broken before the infinite), in a time before patches were commonplace is a bit ridiculous. That combo you showed simply doesn't happen in high level KI2.

Also, to compare the tournament scene of KI to the tournament scene of MK9 is also ridiculous. It was a far different time. You couldn't just post up on a message board so thousands of people will hear about your tournament. There were local tournaments all the time for KI 2. I'd say there were more local KI tournaments than there were local MK2/3 tournaments (in my area) back then.

You're right that any game can be played at a high level. My point is that KI is a completely different game at high levels and far less broken and unbalanced. Your lack of high level knowledge means that you're unaware of this. It's like saying Eddy Gordo is broken in Tekken. Scrubs think so and will argue to death about it, but at high levels Eddy isn't even considered top tier.



Name one fighting game that doesn't have combos that consist of hitting 2-3 buttons... >_>

Also, my point about safe vs. unsafe is that if you have 100 moves and 100 of them are safe, people will use up to 100 moves. But if you have 100 moves and only 30 of them are safe, people will stick to those 30 moves for the most part. So you'd still see the repeated attacks.

Uh, yeah obviously it was before patches but if you're using that as an excuse and obvious point then look at MKT....fun game, but again broken to hell..so your point? Same with MVC2...in fact Capcom even admitted on the re-release they had NO intentions of patching/fixing it when they could have....just saying.

And KI2 is not KIG, KIG has more characters, more combos, and is more broken then KI2 clearly....it's not the "same game" of course it's similar, but not the same. Is MK3 and UMK3 the same?No. Exactly....

I'm also not saying there were never any KI tournaments ever...I'm just saying depsite timeline KIG vs. MK9 is kind of ridiculous generally speaking local smaller tournaments there's been plenty for just about every fighter at times I'm sure(I used to live in BK, they had some smaller things at local arcades for SF, MK, VF etc) before I moved out to SI. Few years back this place my friend went to hosted a SF II original tournament for SNES for money prizes. So I hear ya on local stuff, I've been to two local MK9 tournaments(nothing big) but like you said, local one at gamechamp, the other on gamestop. Both literally located on the opposite side of my borough one practically in jersey. ButI mean, if you want to say that look at games like TMNT TF was a solid game but had how many tourneys exactly despite how fun it was? Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather play that game over KI or DOA honestly(in terms of preferences) just pointing out that there are other games out there besides KI that were good yet seemed to get no attention or were merely underrated.

I'm not lacking knowledge with it, I get that but I'm saying again I don't need to be a bigtime tournament player to understand something that's common sense. No offense, but You need to kill the elitist attitude seriously...it does you no credit and I've noticed people had that issue with you in other topics. It'll just make you come off an arrogant person. I've been around since the golden age and lived thru it the world of gaming, I've played most games and just about every fighter since Kung Fu days. I'm well aware thanks, again I just don't go to KI tournaments but then again how many people "on here" do or have or play KIG high level daily? Outside of a few people...not many I reckon. But that doesn't mean we can't understand a games mechanics.

I used to love KI so I get what you're saying but still doesn't justify the game being broken....that's my point. MKT can be played at high level too, does that mean it's any less broken? There's where I don't get your logic and you seem to be blinded by bias for your personally feelings for KI. I will not comment on Tekken because I admit, that game I hardly play and know little about. But KI I used to play all the time, I know all about the Cinder combos, Orchid, Sabrewolf and more etc....

 

[DrDogg]

Uh, yeah obviously it was before patches but if you're using that as an excuse and obvious point then look at MKT....fun game, but again broken to hell..so your point? Same with MVC2...in fact Capcom even admitted on the re-release they had NO intentions of patching/fixing it when they could have....just saying.

And KI2 is not KIG, KIG has more characters, more combos, and is more broken then KI2 clearly....it's not the "same game" of course it's similar, but not the same. Is MK3 and UMK3 the same?No. Exactly....

I'm also not saying there were never any KI tournaments ever...I'm just saying depsite timeline KIG vs. MK9 is kind of ridiculous generally speaking local smaller tournaments there's been plenty for just about every fighter at times I'm sure(I used to live in BK, they had some smaller things at local arcades for SF, MK, VF etc) before I moved out to SI. Few years back this place my friend went to hosted a SF II original tournament for SNES for money prizes. So I hear ya on local stuff, I've been to two local MK9 tournaments(nothing big) but like you said, local one at gamechamp, the other on gamestop. Both literally located on the opposite side of my borough one practically in jersey. ButI mean, if you want to say that look at games like TMNT TF was a solid game but had how many tourneys exactly despite how fun it was? Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather play that game over KI or DOA honestly(in terms of preferences) just pointing out that there are other games out there besides KI that were good yet seemed to get no attention or were merely underrated.

I'm not lacking knowledge with it, I get that but I'm saying again I don't need to be a bigtime tournament player to understand something that's common sense. No offense, but You need to kill the elitist attitude seriously...it does you no credit and I've noticed people had that issue with you in other topics. It'll just make you come off an arrogant person. I've been around since the golden age and lived thru it the world of gaming, I've played most games and just about every fighter since Kung Fu days. I'm well aware thanks, again I just don't go to KI tournaments but then again how many people "on here" do or have or play KIG high level daily? Outside of a few people...not many I reckon. But that doesn't mean we can't understand a games mechanics.

I used to love KI so I get what you're saying but still doesn't justify the game being broken....that's my point. MKT can be played at high level too, does that mean it's any less broken? There's where I don't get your logic and you seem to be blinded by bias for your personally feelings for KI. I will not comment on Tekken because I admit, that game I hardly play and know little about. But KI I used to play all the time, I know all about the Cinder combos, Orchid, Sabrewolf and more etc....

1. I'm elitist toward you in this topic because you don't know what you're talking about. Period.

2. KI2 = KI Gold. There were no new characters. The differences in combos were due to the port not being arcade perfect, and were not intentional. This is not MK3 > UMK3. It's not even MK4 > MK Gold.

3. I have yet to see you name what was actually broken/unbalanced about KI2/Gold other than the combo you showed earlier, which is irrelevant at high levels of play.

4. You were not high level in KI and that matters in this discussion. KI is a broken series when it's played at casual levels. At high levels of play it becomes a very different game. Now, if you'd said KI1 is broken and unbalanced, you'd have more of an argument. But you said KI Gold, then tried to act like KI Gold is not KI2, which further confirms your lack of knowledge on the subject.

EDIT:

And while we're on the subject. You should look at the below thread and maybe go to a tournament.

http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?7287-MKF30-heres-your-chance

 

[MKF30]

No, you're not. You're assuming stuff about me which is beyond arrogant to say the least yet beyond presumpterous for someone that doesn't even know me.

I've played KI games a ton way back, the games aren't the best and known to have broken elements in general specifically, not just KIG.

UMK3 was planned originally as they wanted those extra characters but with Midway's deadlines they put out MK3....before then did UMK3 obviously with improved gameplay, jump ins, more characters etc, etc. MKG was just MK4 for DC with more characters, but sadly more broken...

Again, I'm talking about KIG NOT KI2...why do you keep putting words in my mouth?I don't have to be a high level player to understand KI's gaming mechanics, that's what you fail to realize. Did you see the vid I posted? Or the fact that you just mash buttons with easy commands more or less to do infinite combos...just look up cinder combos, orchid, etc and with eyedol getting banned and then reasons like this with Cinder's easy launcher infinite with His F,F +MP, FF+1, walk, F, qcf +Medium Kick ad infinitam...forever




So by your logic, you need to be a professional baseball player or football player to understand the rules of the sport and how it works? lol...




And KIG was merely BASED off of KI2, it's not the same exact game though...what don't you understand about this? This is what I'm saying, I never denied the fact that it is similar to KI2...that's a duh, but I'm just saying it's "not the same exact game" period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_Instinct

Well most people I speak to who are KI fans enjoy KI 1 and 2 far more then KIG and even wondered why M$ didn't offer KI1 or 2 yet for arcade....but hey if you love KIG, so be it. That's your preference I suppose.

I'm aware of my knowledge on the topic and I understand it, whether you agree or not is irrelevant to me. Point is, KIG should not be compared to MK9. MK9 is far superior in just about every way.

P.S. concerning that thread, you know Red could have just imed me which would have been the logical thing since I didn't see that until you mentioned it, btw I've been to two local tournaments already, just smaller. The last one I went to and won, had a 200 dollar or Iphone 3G payout, so I took the money....

 

[lobo]

real talk: i'll rape you all with spinal.

drdogg, we gonna have that KI cabinet at devastation again this year?

 

[Loot]

Some of the strings were patched to be made punishable.. like raiden's b3, 1, 2.. Really, let's change the adv of that one and not the 334 string that raiden is cheesing the hell out of peopl in the corner with?

uh 334 is -1 now bruh