I get that KI3 is centered around swag combos but...

[FrothyOmen]

This is a pre-alpha build... I'm sure all of this will be changed over time.

 

[M2Dave]

Then they would realise that an Xbox 1 exsclusive is a horrible decision

Precisely.

Killer Instinct 3 will likely only be as popular as a fighting game like Tastunoko vs. Capcom. I do not see the game having long term success for the following reasons.

- the game is exclusive to a console that the majority will not own
- XBox One's restrictions on used games and offline gameplay will make tournament organizers' lives more difficult
- Double Helix Games will most likely have to beg Microsoft and pay fees to abolish the restrictions
- Double Helix Games has no knowledge and experience with mainstream fighting games

I would still want to play the game, though, especially if it has worthwhile zoning characters.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Precisely.

Killer Instinct 3 will likely only be as popular as a fighting game like Tastunoko vs. Capcom. I do not see the game having long term success for the following reasons.

- the game is exclusive to a console that the majority will not own
- XBox One's restrictions on used games and offline gameplay will make tournament organizers' lives more difficult
- Double Helix Games will most likely have to beg Microsoft and pay fees to abolish the restrictions
- Double Helix Games has no knowledge and experience with mainstream fighting games

I would still want to play the game, though, especially if it has worthwhile zoning characters.

I noticed you changed you name, so the footage of Zod looking hype to you?

 

[M2Dave]

I noticed you changed you name, so the footage of Zod looking hype to you?

Not the footage, which was mediocre and lacking. From what I have read, he should be a worthwhile zoning character. At the moment, the game bores me. There is very little variety. Every top tier character rushes down and/or does 50/50 mix ups.

Also, the community will not be happy when they find out how Scorpion disables interactables for you while he is free to use them at any time.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Not the footage, which was mediocre and lacking. From what I have read, he should be a worthwhile zoning character. At the moment, the game bores me. There is very little variety. Every top tier character rushes down and/or does 50/50 mix ups.

Also, the community will not be happy when they find out how Scorpion disables interactables for you while he is free to use them at any time.

Yep, I dropped the game a while ago, but I am hoping Zod will rekindle my interest, I just wonder what his movelist will be like...

 

[Posthuman]

Oh no please god dont let M2dave get into my precious game... This crying bitch is gonna try to nerf all rush-down chars to the ground!!!
Just image a thread a day by M2dave moaning about KI3 chars???

 

[Vulcan Hades]

They already said theyre gonna add zoning and grapple chars.

You should've read the thread first before replying.

It's not a question of if they add zoners and grapplers but how they will be designed to fit with the KI mechanics. Do we really want Deathstroke to be able to land 30% from a single projectile? Or should it just do 6-10% on hit and knockdown? Do we really want Zangief to have command throws that lead into 30-40%? Or should he just do 20% guaranteed? Is 20% guaranteed aka unbreakable damage too good? (it could be, I don't know)

Maybe I'm wrong and it's better to keep all character archetypes more or less the same for the sake of balance.

But the more balanced aka uniform/bland KI3 is, the less diversity and interesting/unique characters it will have. And the less players will be interested to keep playing it. Basically, the KI community could end up being 1/3rd of what it could be.

This is a pre-alpha build... I'm sure all of this will be changed over time.

Which is why we are talking about things now and not after the game is 100% finished and it's too late to suggest anything.

Double Helix doesn't care about people sniffing their butt. They care about honest feedback and ideas to improve on the ideas that they have shown. Agree, disagree, debate, suggest things.. I don't care, but Double Helix does.

 

[DuskAlloy]

Oh no please god dont let M2dave get into my precious game... This crying bitch is gonna try to nerf all rush-down chars to the ground!!!
Just image a thread a day by M2dave moaning about KI3 chars???

I dont agree with everything M2dave says but I do agree with him here, your precious game is being made by garbage develepors on a shit system... it isn't going to last long lol

 

[Posthuman]

I dont agree with everything M2dave says but I do agree with him here, your precious game is being made by garbage develepors on a shit system... it isn't going to last long lol

And NRS is not garbage? They have been making games for over 20 years and still havent learn shit.

Now look at all the people working on ki3... They know way more about solid fighting mechanics than nrs ever will.

And I wasnt talking about anything M2dave said on this thread, all I said is that I disnt want this scrub getting into KI3 cuz he is gonna make us look bad by bitching and making nerf threads everyday till they nerf everything to the ground!

 

[DuskAlloy]

And NRS is not garbage? They have been making games for over 20 years and still havent learn shit.

Now look at all the people working on ki3... They know way more about solid fighting mechanics than nrs ever will.

And I wasnt talking about anything M2dave said on this thread, all I said is that I disnt want this scrub getting into KI3 cuz he is gonna make us look bad by bitching and making nerf threads everyday till they nerf everything to the ground!

I hate NRS, but double Helix has never made a fighting game before, and all of a sudden it is going to be the a good game, when the old ones werent that good either lol... and I also love that instead of addressing his points you act like a bitch and try to insult him instead

 

[Posthuman]

I hate NRS, but double Helix has never made a fighting game before, and all of a sudden it is going to be the a good game, when the old ones werent that good either lol... and I also love that instead of addressing his points you act like a bitch and try to insult him instead

I act as a bitch? Shut the fuck up kid, you wouldnt dare say the shit to my face.
Read my post before you get into shit that didnt involve you in the first place.
I dont care what M2scrub said on this thread, I just dont want him getting into KI3 thats all.

Edit: Ignored.

 

[DuskAlloy]

I act as a bitch? Shut the fuck up kid, you wouldnt dare say the shit to my face.
Read my post before you get into shit that didnt involve you in the first place.
I dont care what M2scrub said on this thread, I just dont want him getting into KI3 thats all.

Edit: Ignored.

Wow what an internet tough guy, and yeah I read your post, you just got pissy for some reason because m2dave posted in here and didnt even bother answering any of his comments

 

[K7L33THA]

KI was always like this. You get your damage from opening ppl up with combos. Its the whole rock/paper/scissors aspect of the combo breakers that makes it KI. I'm not too worried. Looks good so far.

 

[VagrantLest]

Rare, the owners of Killer Instinct, are owned by Microsoft.

 

[xWEBSx]

As of right now, everything in the game seems to do like no damage at all. And I have some problems with that.

I swear I look back at the KI footage that was shown in the last few days and Jago's fireball for example does like 1% on hit. I'm not even exaggerating.

From what I've seen so far:

-Throws seem to be around 10%
-Shadow reversals are around 20%
-Optimal combos are around 30% (45% if meter/trait is used)

Everything else (normals, specials, AAs, A2As) does 1%. And I honestly hope that is going to change because there is no way in hell a zoning character can win via zoning with 1% projectiles. To me that's like Green Arrow trying to zone without ice/fire arrows. I mean, imagine if Dhalsim's limbs all did 1% on hit. He would suck because he already does no damage and wasn't designed to have strong mixups, combos or escape options.

Also, the game is so fast paced and rushdown oriented that I doubt we are going to see a lot of time outs, which is a good thing for the casual crowd. But obviously it also hurts any zoning character trying to lame it out / protect their life lead.

Therefore, the way I think they are going to design zoning characters in KI is by giving them "pop up" or "capture" type projectiles that lead into combos on hit. Kind of like Reptile's force ball and Sub-Zero's ice blast/ice clone.

If they just make all zoning characters like that, that's fine with me. It would be a simple and effective way to make zoning characters viable in KI. But I also hope other zoners or even grapplers can get decent damage outside of combos. Just for the sake of diversity. I want to see characters with quick projectiles that do 8-10% on hit. I want to see grapplers with shadow/chain command throws that do 20-30%.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't want the entire cast to be only about "guess mashing" auto-doubles over and over back and forth. Because that's gonna get old real quick and turn off many players.

The focus of KI is not on zoning or zoners.. Sure, characters have projectiles, however they are more for piecing together mid combo instead of using repeatedly from full screen.. As opposed to the Guile zoner archetype or even a functional space/zoner like Ryu..it is just not that type of game.. It is a game that thrives off momentum.. Breaking the momentum and of course.. Combos..

I recall a similar discussion to damage and timeouts in SFxT release and how timeouts HURT the game on a tournament level and not the casual level (which is the opposite of your point).

 

[CrimsonShadow]

This game is pre-alpha.. You should have seen Injustice's pre-alpha damage.

It's not even worth it to criticize minor details at this stage.

 

[M2Dave]

Yep, I dropped the game a while ago, but I am hoping Zod will rekindle my interest, I just wonder what his movelist will be like...

http://testyourmight.com/threads/new-zod-videos-from-e3-including-move-list-frame-data.34284/

 

[xenogorgeous]

KI is supposed to be fast paced, with major and main focus in close game , rushdown, and multiple hit combos oriented , so, never saw this game as a main title for zoners, turtles, keep away gameplay styles .... and this new one seems fast as hell, with emphasis and focus in close distance and short range combat fight .... combo breakers will be a must mandatory tool to be used, hehe

 

[STRYKIE]

Rare, the owners of Killer Instinct, are owned by Microsoft.

99% of these forums are aware of this, I'm pretty sure whoever it was that bought up it being XB1 exclusive was implying that it would be for the best to have it also available on the 360's XBLA too, as of now there is literally nothing that suggests it couldn't run on current generation hardware.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I recall a similar discussion to damage and timeouts in SFxT release and how timeouts HURT the game on a tournament level and not the casual level (which is the opposite of your point).

Only casuals and scrubs complain about time outs. Because it's not "hype" and fighters need to be hype to watch to receive any decent stream time. Stream monsters are essentially calling the shots. So I guess we're both right.

This game is pre-alpha.. You should have seen Injustice's pre-alpha damage.

It's not even worth it to criticize minor details at this stage.

Double Helix asked us, the real KI fans, to criticize them. You don't seem to be aware of this so I suggest watching the recent streams.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

KI is supposed to be fast paced, with major and main focus in close game , rushdown, and multiple hit combos oriented , so, never saw this game as a main title for zoners, turtles, keep away gameplay styles .... and this new one seems fast as hell, with emphasis and focus in close distance and short range combat fight .... combo breakers will be a must mandatory tool to be used, hehe

I know, but that's the thing.. KI never had zoners or grapplers. And Double Helix clearly stated that KI3 would have zoners and grapplers that would have projectiles/command throws as "starters".

Therefore, we must seriously reflect on the implications on having zoners combo off projectiles and grapplers combo off command throws in a KI game. What it could mean to balance and high level.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Double Helix asked us, the real KI fans, to criticize them. You don't seem to be aware of this so I suggest watching the recent streams.

I'm aware of it (I wrote articles about it) and NRS asked for feedback as well -- but talking about day 1 alpha damage in a fighting game is almost never relevant. All that stuff is placeholder ends up getting changed.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I'm aware of it (I wrote articles about it) and NRS asked for feedback as well -- but talking about day 1 alpha damage in a fighting game is almost never relevant. All that stuff is placeholder ends up getting changed.

I'm talking about ( zoner/grappler) design, how they would/should fit with KI mechanics, and balance vs diversity. Not mere damage good sir.

It's like you're trying really hard to close this thread.

 

[KingHippo]

Ken Lobb laid it out pretty much: It was easy to hang back and turtle and fish for starters in the older games, now they've done a lot of things (Meter building on block and throws being super cancellable, to name a few) to ensure that the action stays constant and there is a constant stream of thinking going on during the match.

It sounds very Killer Instinct.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

The current build fireballs give hella meter on block, but pretty low damage on hit. Maybe they will buff the damage as it's better to get hit by a fireball than to block it as it gives 20% meter.

They did say this build was 5 weeks old, and damage values are the most common thing to get changed I think.

I agree, but the problem with that (and I acknowledge this is an early build) is that in KI, full screen combo starters are a thing. If Jago throws as fire ball and reads you won't block, potentially he can windkick in to combo off the fireball.

#theoryfighting