Discussion - "Shut up and get better"

[Onilordasmodeus]

Typically .... this term is simply for those who don't knwo what else to say...... but simply don't want to say "What i'm doing is broken and dumb"

I disagree.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I disagree.

On this forum..... it totally is

now maybe not 100% of the time...... but if you read it in the context of what they've said in posts before it...... then yeah... pretty much it is.

Or I just view everyone as a complete and total ass hat.

 

[serge]

If adapting to Metropolis rooftop robots is getting the back dash invincibility that is like 6 frames window perfectly every time in an online match with those robots thrown at me every 10 seconds or so by power characters when I play gadget ones then I'm afraid I'll bever adapt and you will hear me complain forever. I don't think many people have very hard ai reflexes and assuming so is the dumbest shit ever.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Ahhh yes. "Shut up and get better." It's a phrase that we've all heard at some point in our fighting game experiences. Whether your enraged about how you lost or whether you're innocently stating your opinion on why something might be overpowered or broken, you are almost guaranteed to be smacked a few times with "Shut up and get better," "Learn to play," or something along those lines.

While I do agree with the message itself, I just want to call to attention the hippocrisy that is often coupled with this statement.

For example: Player A picks a power character, and Player B picks an acrobat character. Stage select chooses Metro rooftop, a stage with respawning interactables (with stupid big hitboxes) that can be thrown by power characters, but not by acrobats. Player A is a decent player, but Player B demonstrates throughout the match that he is the better player at a fundamental level as far as punishes, spacing, blocking etc go. The match is close, however, at the end of the match, Player A emerges victorious by virtue of interactables.

Player B, obviously frustrated, says to Player A "wow, really? that's how I lose?" to which Player A responds "Shut up and get better."

Now, I understand that is a rather extreme example (and the purpose of this thread is to not pick apart that one example), however my point is the saying of "shut up and get better" is said by a player who is not very good at all, or at least won the match in a way that, to put it bluntly, isn't very indicative of the player having "skill" or "being better." To me, it would be like a boxing match in which one boxer payed the ref off and was delivering cheap shots the entire match, and after the other boxer disputes the ref says "shut up and get better."

TL;DR My question is this, basically... How much merit does "Shut up and get better" have if it's coming from the mouth (or fingers) from someone who either isn't very good at all, or is abusing something that is "questionably balanced" because they themselves know they aren't very good?





This essay was brought to you by: Corn Pops

ONCE YOU POP, THE FUN DON'T STOP

Hey haven't you heard, it takes skills to throw interactables, and "SET THEM UP"

Most people that suck and derp out wins either don't admit that they suck and wouldn't be able to win without interactables, Or they just don't actually know that they suck because they win with derpy shit, then when they do get that ass kicked they come on this site to complain about said character that whipped that ass,

Hence all the complaining and whining on TYM,

 

[JoeX0rX]

But I like when i get yelled at to stop spamming....with shazam.

 

[ApertureBlack]

Hey haven't you heard, it takes skills to throw interactables, and "SET THEM UP"

All of my this, makes me cry inside when people say this.

 

[serge]

It's adapting by choosing the correct tools for the job instead of holding yourself back.

So basicly whenever you are struggling with something just stop playing the characters you like and go play Superman/BA so you can get the win? Sounds like a lot of fun! What if I don't like those 2 at all?

Adapting would be changing something about your play to be more successful. Why can't that change be at the character select screen?

Because everyone would play fucking Superman/BA and the game wouldn't be called Injustice it would be called Superman VS Black Adam: Metropolis Rooftop. People should be able to play any character they want and have a chance to win with them on equal skill levels. If that's not the case the game is not balanced.

What's the point of having a competitive scene with 28 characters cast if all you need to win is 2 or 3 and you never see the rest? The best games in history of all games were always the ones with fair balance, the closest you get to perfect 100% balance, the better it is. Playing to win is fine and all as long as it's player skill's dependant otherwise competition is flawed and results are meaningless. Then people start not giving a shit about your game and there is no more money to be won with it because of obvious reasons.

I'm not saying that this is where Injustice is going, it's just a general rule in games. Will you still be excited to throw robots for 18% in 10 years from now? People would have stopped playing chess a long time ago if one side started with 2 queens and the other didn't.

 

[Saint Connor]

Fuck Pops. It's all about Smacks.

DIG EM MOTHERFUCKER.

 

[KDZ]

It's 2 months into the game.

You can all calm down now.

 

[Goldi]

I've always had teachers and training partners that used the shut up and get better approach. Kinda, you don't have to like this, but you do have to figure it out.

If something works, they abused it. Sometimes to break me of bad habits, they would just poke or even teabag lol instead of full combo punish to say, "you're screwing up, pay attention."

So, I have to agree with the spirit of the advice. There's some discipline to it that appeals to me. Not that it accomplishes much when just said in passing though.

 

[THTB]

There's some discipline to it that appeals to me.

Goldfish...liking the teabag...as discipline...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Okay, enough trolling...I don't think I slept well enough last night omg. Apologies, LOL!

 

[Goldi]

This thread just got sexy and awkward. The Goldfish special

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

This thread just got sexy and awkward. The Goldfish special

"Sexily Awkward"

Trademark it.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

The OP's example sounds a lot like the Black Adam that beat the Hawkgirl on the stream Pig of the Hut was announcing a week or so ago. There was no "shut up and get better" there, but honestly the whole stream blew up that this Black Adam player had done nothing but runaway and interactible fish all night and was winning like crazy against players who really out did him. My honest opinion on this game is that interactibles have too high of a reward and stifle smart players and favor run away too much. I think there should be no unblockable ones and that the damage they do is too high...I also feel the damage transitions do is too high as well. They definitely add stuff to the footsies, but honestly the only interactibles I really love are the ones that extend combos and not the ones that are GTFO tools.

Stuff to let you augment mobility like the pipe in Atlantis is awesome.
Stuff to let you add an OTG at long range to your combo like the dumpster in Crime Alley is awesome.
Stuff that lets you extend combos with a background bounce like the helicopter on Gotham Rooftops is awesome.
Stuff that you can throw or that is unblockable is just repeatedly abused.

I guess in general if it augments a combo or mobility then its a good interactible and if it doesn't it just seems to be a cheap way to stun someone, deal a ton of damage or shut down footsies and all of which feel pretty negative given how powerful the ones that do this are in terms of damage and since many respawn.

Those types of interactions aren't enhancing game aspects...they are replacing them and thats not what I think they were meant to do. There is no shut up and get better when these tools encourage you to do the opposite and just go cheap.

I greatly, greatly enjoy this post.

Make the robots and destructible cheesy shit 12%/equal to Throw damage and decrease the explosion radius on the Metropolis bots.
Making them blockable would just make them too dull, but they need a cooldown.

 

[jonnzz]

So basicly whenever you are struggling with something just stop playing the characters you like and go play Superman/BA so you can get the win? Sounds like a lot of fun! What if I don't like those 2 at all?

Because everyone would play fucking Superman/BA and the game wouldn't be called Injustice it would be called Superman VS Black Adam: Metropolis Rooftop. People should be able to play any character they want and have a chance to win with them on equal skill levels. If that's not the case the game is not balanced.

What's the point of having a competitive scene with 28 characters cast if all you need to win is 2 or 3 and you never see the rest? The best games in history of all games were always the ones with fair balance, the closest you get to perfect 100% balance, the better it is. Playing to win is fine and all as long as it's player skill's dependant otherwise competition is flawed and results are meaningless. Then people start not giving a shit about your game and there is no more money to be won with it because of obvious reasons.

I'm not saying that this is where Injustice is going, it's just a general rule in games. Will you still be excited to throw robots for 18% in 10 years from now? People would have stopped playing chess a long time ago if one side started with 2 queens and the other didn't.

IGAU is probably one of the only fighting games (ignoring team games for obvious reasons) where more than half the roster can win tournaments on a regular basis.

I don't think you know much about FG's in general; the best FIGHTING games in history were not balanced at all.

Have you ever played ST? VS? GG? MVC2? 3rd strike? CVS2? KoF? The list could go on and on...

Maybe MOTW and Melty Blood are quite fair.

 

[SaltShaker]

I want Kenshi as the next DLC with his same moveset and frame datas, with a beastly trait, so I can play him on Metro rooftop and tell people to adapt!!!!!

 

[serge]

IGAU is probably one of the only fighting games (ignoring team games for obvious reasons) where more than half the roster can win tournaments on a regular basis.

I don't think you know much about FG's in general; the best FIGHTING games in history were not balanced at all.

Have you ever played ST? VS? GG? MVC2? 3rd strike? CVS2? KoF? The list could go on and on...

Maybe MOTW and Melty Blood are quite fair.

You are 100% correct, last thing I played a FG before Injustice was Killer Instinct 64. Doesn't change the fact that balanced games are much better for everyone than the non balanced ones.

Injustice has better balance than every other fighters before? That's really good to hear as I had no idea and it means the genre is progressing but it has absolutly no impact on the current situation, stuff like Metropolis Rooftop is what prevents the game from being even better/more balanced than it is.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

EGP Wonder_Chef and Under_The_Mayo
GET IN HERE AND SAY SOMETHING SMART IMMEDIATELY <3.

I met this hot receptionist and she said her favorite MK character is Noob Saibot. I bought her a hamster to make her smile. I`m very focused.

Recently I saw Gatsby, and it was way too long and over dramatic for such a simple story. I blame the director.

 

[_xFriction]

I like Corn Pops.

corn pops are broken and need nerfed

 

[MetalPete]

I've only been a member on this forum for a month or two, but I have noticed a very repetitive pattern among the posters. Not necessarily original posters, but those who comment.

1. People on this forum (not all but definitely most) believe that the only reason to purchase a fighting game is to win at any cost and be a tournament player. This usually stems from several of the "elites" that, like some high-school popularity contest, convince new/other members (perhaps inadvertently) that the only way to enjoy these fighting games is to play and, to a lesser extent speak, the same way they do. From the characters they pick, to the combos performed, to the stupid lingo; people are losing their ability to think and play a fighting game for themselves.

2. Excuses, excuses, excuses. This has got to be one of my biggest issues with fighting game forums. I'm not talking about those who are pissed of because they lost and are scrambling to explain why either. I'm talking about the people that execute one move/set-up in excess; that with all the other abilities at their disposal they refuse to incorporate them...basically out of fear that they might lose. Strategy? Hardly. The term zoning was created because someone needed an excuse as to why they constantly ran away and threw fireballs 10 matches in a row. That is normally why people "main", in any fighting game, specific characters. Not because they enjoy said character, but because their move-set is easily abused. It easy to see the trend. Started with Ken and Ryu. Turned into Scorpion, Cyber Sub-Zero, and Kano, and, most recently Deathstroke, Killer Frost, Aquaman and Sinestro. This a trend that has been going on for a while; always pick someone with a good projectile over someone who doesn't. You may be able to lie to yourself about the way you play, but most of us see through it and just laugh at you; even if we lose. We know why you have 400 wins and 20 loses, and it's not because you're that good.

2a. This same excuse for "zoning" has been around for while, but normally called by a different name; camping. We are all familiar with these people. From Counter-strike to Halo to Black Ops, campers have been frustrating players for years and when their behavior is challenged, a very familiar line is uttered..."It's strategy. This is war. You wouldn't just run around in war. You just suck. Get better". True, you would not, but this is a f*cking video game. Again it comes back to some sort of fear of losing that a player cannot simply tolerate. Nobody likes to lose, but most of us play the game for fun and we don't try to kid ourselves that we are some sort of athlete because we play a video game well. Much like the WWE it is a form of entertainment, not sport.

3. At any cost? A lot of the people seem to agree that winning, by any means necessary, is justified. If this is true, then see 2a. It is not a sport and you have forgotten why we play video-games in the first place. I would venture to say that 5, maybe, 10% of the members here actually participate in national and international tournaments (and I'm sure my percentage is a generous one). The pride and arrogance found on these forums is disgusting. Get over yourselves, it is just game. Actually, if I may be so bold, it is not "just a game" anymore; it is a trend. It is becoming more and more noticeable that people will only "enjoy" a game because it is popular. It is popular: to tell someone to "adapt", to use asinine lingo, to accept that the infamous teleport-and-sweep is a strategy per se.

Okay I need to stop there. I've got stuff do and hunger pangs to address.

And if you're going to quote me, please attempt to understand the entirety of what was said before you quickly skim through and take a couple sentences out of context in order to fit your argument.

 

[Hellbringer]

. The term zoning was created because someone needed an excuse as to why they constantly ran away and threw fireballs 10 matches in a row. That is normally why people "main", in any fighting game, specific characters. Not because they enjoy said character, but because their move-set is easily abused. It easy to see the trend. Started with Ken and Ryu. Turned into Scorpion, Cyber Sub-Zero, and Kano, and, most recently Deathstroke, Killer Frost, Aquaman and Sinestro.

This is the part where you lost me.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

This is the part where you lost me.

Yes... that is where he lost me as well...

 

[ApertureBlack]

I have no idea what I am saying.

You forgot the part that some people actually have fun "zoning" and its easily gotten around of. Alot of people have fun winning as well.

Its like picking a dodgeball team in gym class, you dont pick the guy who is struggling to tie his shoes because his obese body doesnt allow him to bend over, you go for the guy who you saw earlier chuck a basketball full court.

Its basic instinct to pick something that is good. Your scenario would be true if every single person who played comp used Superman and Black Adam.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

You forgot the part that some people actually have fun "zoning" and its easily gotten around of. Alot of people have fun winning as well.

Its like picking a dodgeball team in gym class, you dont pick the guy who is struggling to tie his shoes because his obese body doesnt allow him to bend over, you go for the guy who you saw earlier chuck a basketball full court.

Its basic instinct to pick something that is good. Your scenario would be true if every single person who played comp used Superman and Black Adam.

LOL at that example.

 

[ApertureBlack]

LOL at that example.

Im assuming he can relate