Discussion - "Shut up and get better"

[xWEBSx]

wager, full screen midscreen, trolololol good luck getting back in grundy

Hahahahaha.. Which is why you should never.. EVER feel bad about doing something to your competition in a fighting game...

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

no, you didnt address the important part and the purpose of this thread:
Also, even if everything you have said is true, it does not preclude the fact that people can still find dysfunctional (not going to use broken because of the coloquial meaning to it) elements of a game that they wish to bring to light. the "it's not a glitch, it's a feature" mindset is counterproductive to games that are still in production (patches, dlc, etc are developers finishing a game after release, therefore production) like injustice. You might think your advice would help people realize that the goal is to win, but the way you advocate for it is disastrous for the game itself.
If out the bat you cannot use half of the characters in the game, there is a problem that should be discussed and addressed. If there are in game control issues that are not player-based, there's a problem. If a character has gamebreaking tools, glitches, or infinites there's a problem. If any gimmick is completely unavoidable to where one character or player is guaranteed to have an advantage that is not determined by skill, there is a problem. Yes, you should give yourself the best chance of winning, but if your drive to win means you silence discourse on the issues of a game because "shut up and get better" then you are harmful to the game/community in the long run.

I agree, but that's more of a game design problem. I don't think anyone cares about someone wanting an infinite being taken away. I agree that things should be discussed, but when someone cries for nerfs, it is being used as an excuse for a loss, especially at this stage in the game where obviously not everything has been fleshed out. So in short, I was applying it to injustice, while you were taking more in general. I agree with you that one something has been found that is negative for the game and it is going to be unstoppable, it should be removed. Otherwise, learn to fight it or use it yourself. As a side note, I apologize, I talked about this on a status, everything was moving so fast for a while there, I lost track of where I posted things!

 

[DJ L Toro]

Even cheating after stabbing someone and stealing their wallet. I mean even in the spirit of competition I would feel a little bad.

play to win, ft1 in the parking lot money match

 

[xWEBSx]

Even cheating after stabbing someone and stealing their wallet. I mean even in the spirit of competition I would feel a little bad.

In the spirit of competition... Even then.. Cause competition is not going to feel bad about doing it to you.

 

[BlaqandMild15]

I can see both points, but lets not forget that this is a site for competitive fighting.

I do agree with that because the purpose of even playing a match is to win. I don't believe anybody is here and does not compete or intend to. Yes this is a competitive site but the problem is that there people who want to compete using characters who may not be considered top tier or have no chance of even placing well. It's like they might as well only put the top 8 character's avatars on the front page and only be able to discuss them because the only way to win is to use a top tier character to most people. Us low tier mains pretty much get isolated just because we use a low tier character. And when we do win we gotta hear excuses like'' i didn't know the matchup because no one hardly uses that character.'' It doesn't matter if we win by a hair or a mile. People say it either way. I never complain when I lose. I just say good game. And I'd get called dumb for using a character that I have a well established chemistry with.
EDIT: My bad.you were probably referring to the''get better''part.lol o well.

 

[xWEBSx]

I do agree with that because the purpose of even playing a match is to win. I don't believe anybody is here and does not compete or intend to. Yes this is a competitive site but the problem is that there people who want to compete using characters who may not be considered top tier or have no chance of even placing well. It's like they might as well only put the top 8 character's avatars on the front page and only be able to discuss them because the only way to win is to use a top tier character to most people. Us low tier mains pretty much get isolated just because we use a low tier character. And when we do win we gotta hear excuses like'' i didn't know the matchup because no one hardly uses that character.'' It doesn't matter if we win by a hair or a mile. People say it either way. I never complain when I lose. I just say good game. And I'd get called dumb for using a character that I have a well established chemistry with.

You bring up a great point and that is player gets beat by a lesser character... The above conversation about inferiority, lack of humility and oversized ego comes into play.

A win with Harley Quinn gets me more:
"You and Harley are both whores"
"You suck"
"No skill- pick a real character"
"I don't know the MU"
"You will not get a chance to run next time"
Than-
"Wow nice Harley"
"Nice playing man"
"Good looking Quinn"

Damn near 10-1

But what are you going to do? Send hate mail back? Nahhh.. GG and move on...

Ego is not always a good thing.. Specially online.. Specially in a "game"

 

[SaltShaker]

When I beat people with Frost and they start grumbling I'm going to start saying, "shut up and get better". And by "better" I mean "psychically know when to block low instead of high and high instead of low on my combo-mixup-combo setups".

Only when they are able to do that will I say they've leveled up.

 

[GrundyFox]

Dude why do you care so much about the exact words? Lol. They literally have almost the same definition in this context. I just used excuse because it has a negative connotation.

Maybe because you're working harder then a cat trying to bury a turd on a marble floor to justify... something? I'm just passively watching this thread unroll, but the classic semantics argument that keep coming from you are pretty amusing.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

When I beat people with Frost and they start grumbling I'm going to start saying, "shut up and get better". And by "better" I mean "psychically know when to block low instead of high and high instead of low on my combo-mixup-combo setups".

Only when they are able to do that will I say they've leveled up.

It's funny because you were joking, but this is what fighting games are about. Getting inside your opponents head and knowing exactly what they are going to do.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Maybe because you're working harder then a cat trying to bury a turd on a marble floor to justify... something? I'm just passively watching this thread unroll, but the classic semantics argument that keep coming from you are pretty amusing.

What am I trying to bury? I don't get it. All I'm saying is that instead of complaining players should level up and play to win. I'm not trying to justify anything.

 

[BlaqandMild15]

You bring up a great point and that is player gets beat by a lesser character... The above conversation about inferiority, lack of humility and oversized ego comes into play.

A win with Harley Quinn gets me more:
"You and Harley are both whores"
"You suck"
"No skill- pick a real character"
"I don't know the MU"
"You will not get a chance to run next time"
Than-
"Wow nice Harley"
"Nice playing man"
"Good looking Quinn"

Damn near 10-1

But what are you going to do? Send hate mail back? Nahhh.. GG and move on...

Ego is not always a good thing.. Specially online.. Specially in a "game"

I was referring more to this site and at people in tournaments but I see what you mean.

 

[ThaShiveGeek]

I do agree with that because the purpose of even playing a match is to win. I don't believe anybody is here and does not compete or intend to. Yes this is a competitive site but the problem is that there people who want to compete using characters who may not be considered top tier or have no chance of even placing well. It's like they might as well only put the top 8 character's avatars on the front page and only be able to discuss them because the only way to win is to use a top tier character to most people. Us low tier mains pretty much get isolated just because we use a low tier character. And when we do win we gotta hear excuses like'' i didn't know the matchup because no one hardly uses that character.'' It doesn't matter if we win by a hair or a mile. People say it either way. I never complain when I lose. I just say good game. And I'd get called dumb for using a character that I have a well established chemistry with.
EDIT: My bad.you were probably referring to the''get better''part.lol o well.

Naw its cool lol. Hey I'm an online warrior because I don't own a car or live near a scene. I'm honestly just an online warrior at this point, but one day I do plan on competing. I do plan on winning. I plan on making a name for myself. I say to say that I see it from both sides. People who play with Online tactics or cheap tactics are not my idea of having a good match, but I understand also that some people have a play to win mentality. Why are on this site talking to each other at 1:51 a? Nigga I got a girlfriend I could be on the phone with. I have work in the morning. But at the same time I'm on this site right here because I love these games and I want to be the best I can be. I'm studying this shit. I know that I can be the best. One day hopefully I'll be THE best. Get it? It's the reason we're here. Why else would you be on a forum for ANYTHING unless you were super interested in whatever It was. The information we need is at our disposal. I feel like Everything has a way around it. There's a way to backdash interactabales. Mayo already showed that tech. There's a way around Deathstrokes zoning. There's a way around Scorpion teleporting WE just have to find it. The time we spend here typing could be time spent in the lab figuring out ways around things. I focus on making me a better player not what I feel is unfair. Play to win. If you're playing to have fun that's cool too, but beneath that I do believe that every single one of us on this site has a play to win mentality about them in some kind of way.

 

[Some Dude]

If you don't pick the right characters/stages/whatevers then you should know what you're getting into. That's just fighting games for you and it's always been like that. Back in the day if you were in a UMK3 tournament and you get bodied because you use a character that was obviously shitty like Mileena while everyone else is using Kabal, Human Smoke, Ermac, Reptile, etc, then you have no one to get mad at but yourself, and maybe the developers for making a game with such a large gap between the top and everyone else.

I play Harley in Injustice because she's really, really fun, but she's also potentially a low tier character that probably has a hard time with a lot of the good characters that are really popular in tournaments right now. If I wasn't getting old and didn't live in the middle of nowhere and didn't have a bunch of IRL BS that keeps me from going out to events too often I'd probably be playing top characters that interest me (Batgirl and Nightwing) a lot more seriously.

Wins and losses aren't always a black and white matter of skill vs skill, but if you pick a character that you know is at a natural disadvantage then "get better" is what you're going to have to do to overcome that disadvantage you've placed on yourself. Otherwise, just pick a top tier. "Get better scrub" isn't always a declaration that they are more skilled than you, but it was when I said as much the other night (but more amicably and with some advice sprinkled in) when some Batman player got super pissed that he couldn't get past my Harley "spamming," lol.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

Naw its cool lol. Hey I'm an online warrior because I don't own a car or live near a scene. I'm honestly just an online warrior at this point, but one day I do plan on competing. I do plan on winning. I plan on making a name for myself. I say to say that I see it from both sides. People who play with Online tactics or cheap tactics are not my idea of having a good match, but I understand also that some people have a play to win mentality. Why are on this site talking to each other at 1:51 a? Nigga I got a girlfriend I could be on the phone with. I have work in the morning. But at the same time I'm on this site right here because I love these games and I want to be the best I can be. I'm studying this shit. I know that I can be the best. One day hopefully I'll be THE best. Get it? It's the reason we're here. Why else would you be on a forum for ANYTHING unless you were super interested in whatever It was. The information we need is at our disposal. I feel like Everything has a way around it. There's a way to backdash interactabales. Mayo already showed that tech. There's a way around Deathstrokes zoning. There's a way around Scorpion teleporting WE just have to find it. The time we spend here typing could be time spent in the lab figuring out ways around things. I focus on making me a better player not what I feel is unfair. Play to win. If you're playing to have fun that's cool too, but beneath that I do believe that every single one of us on this site has a play to win mentality about them in some kind of way.

There is always MK10.

 

[GrundyFox]

What am I trying to bury? I don't get it. All I'm saying is that instead of complaining players should level up and play to win. I'm not trying to justify anything.

I... uh, didn't mean you were literally trying to bury anything. It was just a bit of a metaphor.

I just find your counterarguments a bubbly semantics game. Like I said, I am just passively watching this thread unfold and this caught my attention.

 

[SaltShaker]

It's funny because you were joking, but this is what fighting games are about. Getting inside your opponents head and knowing exactly what they are going to do.

O in this scenario I'm on the complete other side of the fence with you. Isn't my fault guy gets caught into combo leading to trait cancels safe 50/50 into another combo. Guess right or lose life!! The amount of hate I get is insane from certain people I play. 10x worse from the online randoms. But it's like what am I supposed to do? NOT go for the high extra damage and end it on a b3 combo for 43%?? You fight in a fighting game, and if anything I want credit for conditioning an opponent to block slide as i F3 after my 50/50 for the rest of the life bar than being told my "char beat them".

Nahhhh lol. I won.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I... uh, didn't mean you were literally trying to bury anything. It was just a bit of a metaphor.

I just find your counterarguments a bubbly semantics game. Like I said, I am just passively watching this thread unfold and this caught my attention.

I got that it was a metaphor haha. No, please enlighten me. What about my argument is semantics? Please pick a specific part.

 

[Squeaker101]

Those are the weirdest Corn Pops I have ever seen. Canada just gets them in traditional spheres.

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

"shut up and get better" is code for "holy shit i won"

No but really, there are times when i find such phrases acceptable, albeit ineffective.

Imagine a player who just hits buttons and specials randomly. Just aiming his character at you and mashing wildly. Now imagine the guy he is fighting is really a decent player who got flamed by the other guy after winning to which he replies, "practice more".

This, in effect, means the same thing as shut up and get better especially to the guy who was already irate prior to losing and further belittling by another player.

I dont blame the winner in such a situation for saying things like "practice" or "adapt" or something because it's 100% the answer to the losers problem.

Now, when people cry about stuff it forces the winner to add "shut up and..." or something like that in front of "practice" and everything gets blown out of context.

This theory, however, does not dismiss the fact that some people are just dickheads lol.

 

[GrundyFox]

I got that it was a metaphor haha. No, please enlighten me. What about my argument is semantics? Please pick a specific part.

Oh it started around here.

Both players have access to the same tools. Play to win, or don't play at all. If everyone stops playing and it's that bad, then it will be fixed next time around.

How is that adapting? That is just picking the best tools in the game. It has nothing to do with "adapt".

Just thought it was funny how Morbid kept answering your one-liners and you kept just dancing on. Admittedly I don't particular care, but I do find the whole "adapt" and "level up" one-liners brain dead 9 times out of 10. Most of the time they're blanket statements based on presumption (of a persons skill level) that are easier to say then actually discussing the issue.

Like something as modulating and inherently robust as characters potential (for being too good or not) can be summed up with that trash line.

 

[shaowebb]

The OP's example sounds a lot like the Black Adam that beat the Hawkgirl on the stream Pig of the Hut was announcing a week or so ago. There was no "shut up and get better" there, but honestly the whole stream blew up that this Black Adam player had done nothing but runaway and interactible fish all night and was winning like crazy against players who really out did him. My honest opinion on this game is that interactibles have too high of a reward and stifle smart players and favor run away too much. I think there should be no unblockable ones and that the damage they do is too high...I also feel the damage transitions do is too high as well. They definitely add stuff to the footsies, but honestly the only interactibles I really love are the ones that extend combos and not the ones that are GTFO tools.

Stuff to let you augment mobility like the pipe in Atlantis is awesome.
Stuff to let you add an OTG at long range to your combo like the dumpster in Crime Alley is awesome.
Stuff that lets you extend combos with a background bounce like the helicopter on Gotham Rooftops is awesome.
Stuff that you can throw or that is unblockable is just repeatedly abused.

I guess in general if it augments a combo or mobility then its a good interactible and if it doesn't it just seems to be a cheap way to stun someone, deal a ton of damage or shut down footsies and all of which feel pretty negative given how powerful the ones that do this are in terms of damage and since many respawn.

Those types of interactions aren't enhancing game aspects...they are replacing them and thats not what I think they were meant to do. There is no shut up and get better when these tools encourage you to do the opposite and just go cheap.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

Oh it started around here.





Just thought it was funny how Morbid kept answering your one-liners and you kept just dancing on. Admittedly I don't particular care, but I do find the whole "adapt" and "level up" one-liners brain dead 9 times out of 10. Most of the time they're blanket statements based on presumption (of a persons skill level) that are easier to say then actually discussing the issue.

Like something as modulating and inherently robust as characters potential (for being too good or not) can be summed up with that trash line.

Yes. Yes! PREACH!
Thank you so much. You win the internet!

 

[DiZzyPhyZiks]

Oh it started around here.





Just thought it was funny how Morbid kept answering your one-liners and you kept just dancing on. Admittedly I don't particular care, but I do find the whole "adapt" and "level up" one-liners brain dead 9 times out of 10. Most of the time they're blanket statements based on presumption (of a persons skill level) that are easier to say then actually discussing the issue.

Like something as modulating and inherently robust as characters potential (for being too good or not) can be summed up with that trash line.

Lol its funny that you say that bcuz ive wondered about people using "1-liners"

1. theyre actually good and feel like the answer is just that simple
Or
2. They actually good and are lazy to further discuss
Or
3. Use that answer for everything as a facad of skill or knowledge

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

Oh it started around here.





Just thought it was funny how Morbid kept answering your one-liners and you kept just dancing on. Admittedly I don't particular care, but I do find the whole "adapt" and "level up" one-liners brain dead 9 times out of 10. Most of the time they're blanket statements based on presumption (of a persons skill level) that are easier to say then actually discussing the issue.

Like something as modulating and inherently robust as characters potential (for being too good or not) can be summed up with that trash line.

I mean what else am I supposed to say? Every thing I said was fact. Both players have access to the same tools, save for p1 adv in mk. So it truly is intelligence and skill that decides who comes out on top. Am I supposed to hold his hand and tell him how to beat me? No that's his job. If he can't do it, he shouldn't bitch, he should just quit. I don't know how much more blunt I should be.

 

[MorbidAltruism]

Lol its funny that you say that bcuz ive wondered about people using "1-liners"

1. theyre actually good and feel like the answer is just that simple
Or
2. They actually good and are lazy to further discuss
Or
3. Use that answer for everything as a facad of skill or knowledge

Trust me... if you start frequenting these forums... all you will hear is
"adapt"
Literally. It falls into one of those 3 categories. It is so annoying. You ask the person what they mean? No response.... or a really stupid response. I am going on a campaign. I am calling anyone out who says that BS without a thorough explanation.