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Changing Tournament Standards

Round Robin in Top 8 best in determining the champion?


  • Total voters
    15

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
Does a winner of a Tournament really determine the best player in attendance ???
Well i think not, although it may be the case sometimes.
I was thinking of ways to make a Tournament more exciting as well as more worthy for players who travel from all over the world to compete.

How many times have you watched a tournament , and though to yourself, "If XXX didnt have to fight XXX in semis or pools, he would of won easily"
or "XXX only won because he didnt face XXX"

or attended a tournament and after losing though to yourself "if i didnt have to fight XXX i would have won the tournament"

I think Tournaments can sometimes be random and favor a player to win if his pools or the people he had to face to win are ones whos chars favor them in match ups..

A awesome way for this to be changed and really determine the best player overall , while providing viewers with more matches is as follows

2/3 matches in all pools

once the Tournament reaches top 8, these 8 players are putt into a round robin pool.
every player in top 8 has to face each otther in a 2/3 set.
Once this is done, the player with the most wins (either matches won, or sets won, not sure which is best)
Becomes the Tournament winner!
if theirs a tie, then the 2 players fight in a additional 3/5 set for the 1st place position. same can be done to determined the rest of top 3.

Now some concerns of course would be that
Matches will take too long. (doing top 3 instead or top 4 might be better in this case)
People who make top 8 in losers get the same advantage as the ones in winners (although you can easily give the players in winners extra point or too for the round robin )

Now, some of you may have seen this done at the MLG Arenas. I though it was a great idea and really gave us the matches we wanted to see as well as a good way to determine the winners of the pool. (although i suggest this for top 8 , not in pools)

What do you guys think?? more matches!, bigger bang for your buck!, real masters!!!
 

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
I don't think they will change it... but I cant say the change wouldn't be welcomed. I think it is a good idea in theory though. If it ever came to a vote I would vote for this method.
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
I don't think they will change it... but I cant say the change wouldn't be welcomed. I think it is a good idea in theory though. If it ever came to a vote I would vote for this method.

im just throwing out the suggestion.. TO's and players are too afraid to switch things up now a days.. even if its for the best
 

MorbidAltruism

Get over here!
im just throwing out the suggestion.. TO's and players are too afraid to switch things up now a days.. even if its for the best
Exactly. I don't see the harm in switching things up. I mean if it doesn't work they can always change it back.
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
For those who disagree.. please post on WHY this method wont help determine the overall Champion of a Tournament..
Please remember, i am asking on if it will help determine the best player, and not if it should be used in tournaments
I know a lot TO's who will disagree because they are only interested in running a tournament as quick as possible.

Question is actually more towards people who attend and participate in Tournaments....
Although thoughts from stream monsters is welcome
 

MashBot

You're over matched.
This would be sick too see at evo. I think the people who make top 8 wouldn't make top 64 because like you said alot of the time people get by off of bad match ups. Alot! And like you said its a time thing. I would watch the whole thing. And alot of frauds would be snuffed out
 

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
This is an interesting idea but i doubt we will see anything like it happen at big tournaments. The standard has just been around for too long and it works pretty well. In this system it truly makes you be prepared for anything.

Obligatory :joker: Post-Now the BCS Championship System is behind again. Will the NCAA ever get it right?
 

Cat

This guy looks kind of tuff...
This is an interesting idea but i doubt we will see anything like it happen at big tournaments. The standard has just been around for too long and it works pretty well. In this system it truly makes you be prepared for anything.

Obligatory :joker: Post-Now the BCS Championship System is behind again. Will the NCAA ever get it right?

yeah.. ppl afraid of change.. but it would make tournaments like EVO way more hype!
 

Jer

I'm a literal Sloth
I like the idea with round robin top 8, I can see it not happening only because of how long it would take.

I used to play smash competitively before this (Melee), and pools are actually round robin to see who gets out.
 

Critical-Limit

Dojo Trainee
What about a mix of Round Robin + Traditional bracket?

I forgot the name

But it's like you got top 8.

you have 2 pools of 4.

Top 2 make it out of both pool groups. (the other 4 get sent to losers)

Leaving 4 people. Then You do round robin again.

top 2 make it out. Then the top 2, do winner's finals. Same for loser's bracket?

Or take too long?


EDIT: the reason I don't want just a plain round robin.

while it determins the best player better.

I also feel it's less hype >.>
 

chores

bad at things
For those who disagree.. please post on WHY this method wont help determine the overall Champion of a Tournament..
i think it has pros and cons. what you are losing out on is seeing who performs the best with the most on the line/under the highest amount of pressure. im sure each match would be tension filled, but if you had to play seven other players youd lose the magic and intensity of the 'grand final'. but maybe the pros outweigh the cons idk.


-- edit:

also its much more exploitable. like if it came down to one match where one player was already guaranteed a 7/8th place finish and their opponent would go into a playoff if they won, they could offer to 'throw the match' for a %of potential winnings for grand champ etc just an example but this shit has happened in quake tournaments, most notably WCG 2002 throwing matches to put zero4 out of contention. theres a reason the elimination format is used in essentially every major sport to determine an overall champion, its because 'win or go home' can not be exploited and is more exciting for viewers. if the nfl or ncaa could switch formats and add several extra games per year with that much extra ad revenue on the line they would do it
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
If you are the best player there you wont lose twice. The system is in place for a reason. Round Robin gets rid of upsets and hype. Plus it would take way too long.
 

IceNine

Tired, But Strong
Time taken to do it is my immediate concern with this system. If anything, round robin in pools (since they don't have to worry about catching everything on stream or putting things on main stage) is potentially more doable. But I think that'd need more setups, especially if one was doing this for every game.

Logistically, it's a lot of pain.

It's certainly objectively fair, but I can't imagine it'd get adopted anytime soon.

A great place to do round robins would be invitationals/exhibitions, however. Intentionally limited in scope, and due to their nature they're jam-packed with talent and primarily exist to provide entertaining high level matches, and round robin ensures that we'll get to squeeze all of the potential hype out of it as possible.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Yeah it would take a ton of time to do it.

In a typical double elim top 8 you do like 12 matches I think?

In this style you would do 28 and then more if there are ties.

Also I know that round robins tend to be able to have multiple way ties, I mean technically you could get an 8 way tie in an 8 man round robin. Then what would you do, play another 28 games?
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

I WILL EAT THIS GAME
They should do it like they did at the MLG Arenas. 2 groups of 4, 2 outta 3 against everyone in the group.
Top 4 records/W-L VS Opponents ratios go to semi-finals. THEN you do regular 3 outta 5, and a 3'rd Place match.