Strategy Black Adam's Oki game

[HOWLSghost]

New bomb traps:

Quick question. Could the opponent just do a wake up that can get them out of range of the bomb trap since most wake ups have invincibility start up? ie batmans slide

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Quick question. Could the opponent just do a wake up that can get them out of range of the bomb trap since most wake ups have invincibility start up? ie batmans slide

Yes they can wake up attack to try and get out. But it's still risky for them because they have to commit to an unsafe wake up as Black Adam is jumping back before they even see the Dive Kick coming. So if you don't Dive Kick and just empty jump backwards then they get whiff punished by a full combo. Or you can just do a delayed MB Dive Kick to hit after their invincible frames wear off.

Some characters get out easier than others obviously. But it's still a nice mind game imo.

btw don't do this at the end of rounds when a normal BnB would kill lol. I do it all the time because I like experimenting with it but it's really for comeback purposes more than anything.

 

[Yinze]

I'd Hate to see black adam get nerfed. i just started picking him up. Why cant people just learn how to fight against someone instead of demanding a nerf cause its to challenging? dumb

 

[T4T|Nevan]

I agree with that, but unfortunly thats the community we have.

But let's wait if he gets touched, no need to stress up yet Learn him, play with him and you'll love it for a long time

Vulcan, in your videos you use 22b1 mid bomb, if you use 113 bomb would get the same effect?

I was trying those setups in the lab yesterday and I noticed that the 113 puts them further away. Is there anything you could 'play' with it or just we just stick to 22b1?

 

[HOWLSghost]

Yes they can wake up attack to try and get out. But it's still risky for them because they have to commit to an unsafe wake up as Black Adam is jumping back before they even see the Dive Kick coming. So if you don't Dive Kick and just empty jump backwards then they get whiff punished by a full combo. Or you can just do a delayed MB Dive Kick to hit after their invincible frames wear off.

Some characters get out easier than others obviously. But it's still a nice mind game imo.

btw don't do this at the end of rounds when a normal BnB would kill lol. I do it all the time because I like experimenting with it but it's really for comeback purposes more than anything.

Very true. Throwing out the bomb and baiting a wake up to blow up would be nice lol. Ive tried almost the whole cast and I'm starting to like black Adam a lot. Too bad he can only have one bomb on screen at a time

Anyways, sick setups. Keep em coming!

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Ok so I have a couple of new things to share. But I think I'll separate it in 2-3 posts.

First, a combo into D3 hard knockdown with sweep range frame advantage and what you can do from there:

Combo: j2, b2 xx Trait, 22 xx Black Magic, dash, d3 (31%)

Similar combo: j2, b2 xx Trait, 22 xx Black Magic, nj2, b2 xx Lightning Storm (37%)*need more testing, not quite the same as d3 but still great.

This is sacrificing around 10-15% (basically throw damage) for an untechable knockdown at sweep range. Is sacrificing 12% really worth it? Well that depends on the life situation, matchup and what you're trying to do.

There's also 223 and 13 that cause untechable KDs and I think I partially covered those a few days ago. Anyway, I personally don't like those strings too much because you have to manually time your cross-ups by taking a few steps forward or something... I don't really remember lol. But there was definitely something that made me look into the D3 ender instead. Probably because the spacing is much closer and I feel like I have more options.. anyway...

Spoiler

1. Cross-up potential:
After ending the combo with d3 I tested to see if BA's jump attacks would cross-up even if opponent is holding back to block. Obviously, characters with slow walkspeeds are easier to cross-up and characters with fast walkspeeds have an easier time avoiding them.

Aquaman (all hit front)
Ares (j1 crosses-up, j2 hits front, j3 whiffs)
Bane (all hit front)
Batman (all hit front)
Black Adam (all hit front)
Catwoman (all cross-up)
Cyborg (j1/j2 hit front, j3 whiffs)
Deathstroke (all hit front, j1 lands behind)
Doomsday (all hit front)
Flash (j1/j2 hit front, j3 whiffs)
Green Arrow (all hit front)
Green Lantern (all hit front)
Grundy (all hit front)
Harley Quinn (all hit front)
Hawkgirl (j1 crosses-up, j2/j3 hit front)
Joker (all hit front)
Killer Frost (j1 hits front but lands behind, j3 crosses-up)
Lex Luthor (all hit front)
Nightwing (j1/j2 crosses-up, j3 whiffs)
Raven (all hit front)
Shazam (all hit front)
Sinestro (all hit front)
Superman (all hit front)
Wonder Woman (all hit front)

Again, this is taking into consideration that the opponent will walk back and not crouch or stand there. If the opponent crouches for a second before holding back to block then there's a good chance you will cross-up regardless of their walkspeed.

Just remember that a raw D3 has more frame advantage and that changes things quite a bit.

Cross-up potential of a raw d3 (pointblank):

Aquaman (j2 crosses-up, j1/j3 whiffs)
Ares (j2 crosses-up, j1/j3 whiffs)
Bane (j1/j2 hit front, j3 crosses-up)
Batman (j1/j2 crosses-up)
Black Adam (all hit front)
Catwoman (all cross-up)
Cyborg (all hit front but j1 lands behind)
Doomsday (all hit front)
Deathstroke (j1/j3 crosses-up, j2 hits front)
Flash (j1 crosses up)
Green Arrow (j1/j2 hit front, j3 crosses-up)
Grundy (all hit front)
Harley Quinn (j1/j2 crosses-up, j3 whiffs)
Hawkgirl (j2 crosses-up, j1/j3 whiffs)
Joker (j2 crosses-up, j1/j3 whiffs)
Killer Frost (j1/j2 crosses-up)
Lex Luthor (all cross-up)
Nightwing (j1/j2 cross-up)
Raven (all hit front)
Shazam (j1/j2 crosses-up, j3 whiffs)
Green Lantern (j1/j2 crosses-up, j3 whiffs)
Sinestro (all hit front)
Superman (j2 crosses-up, j1/j3 whiffs)
Wonder Woman (j2 crosses-up, j1/j3 whiffs)

Keep in mind you can always cancel your cross-up with MB close Boot Stomp or do ambiguous dive kicks after j2/j3 are blocked. Or even use far Boot Stomp to ass out in some cases.


2. Chasing the Backdash:
It's possible to chase/whiff punish certain backdashes a number of different ways. I tested these on the whole cast to know which backdashes can be 100% punished and which ones are safe after this particular knockdown (though the spacing and frame advantage is what really matters here, not the knockdown itself).

j2/j3: Ares, Doomsday (late/hard), Flash, Green Lantern (*not recommended because of Lift), Hawkgirl (*not recommended because of Wing Evade), Joker, Killer Frost, Lex, Raven, Sinestro.

EDIT: It seems the Lightning Storm ender has a little less cross-up potential but allows BA to punish more backdashes with j1/j3 (e.g. Catwoman). Definitely need to test that more.

Can't punish their backdash with j2/j3: Aquaman, Bane, Batman, Black Adam, Catwoman, Cyborg, Deathstroke, Harley Quinn, Green Arrow, Grundy, Nightwing, Shazam, Superman, Wonder Woman.

Dash, b23: Aquaman, Ares, Deathstroke, Doomsday, Flash, Green Arrow, Green Lantern, Grundy, Harley Quin, Hawkgirl, Joker, Killer Frost, Lex Luthor (b2 will whiff but 3 will hit), Nightwing, Raven, Wonder Woman.

Can't chase with dash b23 (best backdashes in the game): Bane, Batman, Black Adam, Catwoman, Cyborg, Shazam, Sinestro, Superman.

edit: I need to test again to know which backdashes avoid b2 completely and which ones just manage to block in time.

Black Magic, MB Lightning Strike & MB Lightning Storm: Universal (beats all backdashes)
Using Black Magic and Lightning Strike at this range is risky and obviously loses to most wake up attacks. That's why I only recommend doing these after having conditioned the opponent, after having established the fear of whiff punishment.

Interesting finds:​

​

-Aquaman (storm and black magic > from the deep)​

-Ares (storm > god smack)​

-Bane (storm > command grab, loses to uppercut. black magic > uppercut, loses to command grab)​

-Black Adam (frame advantage so storm > storm. Note: fj2 beats cage from here)​

-Catwoman (storm > non-MB catdash)​

-Doomsday (storm > venom, trades with upward venom)​

-Green Arrow (storm loses to retreat arrow, retreat arrow loses to black magic/strike)​

-Raven (storm is faster than all her projectiles)​

-Shazam (storm > atlas torpedo and command grab)​

-Sinestro (only fearblast is a threat from here but its whiff punishable on crouch with b23)​

-Wonder Woman (black magic > amazonian uppercut and lasso grab, trades with tiara)​

​

Especially unsafe vs Aquaman, Batman, Deathstroke, Flash, Green Arrow, Harley Quin, Joker, Killer Frost, Lex Luthor, Nightwing, Superman...​

​

I would only try these on characters with great backdashes. Because otherwise if you think they are going to backdash why settle for 18-19% when you can full punish with j2 or dash b23 for 30-40%?​

​

3. Dash Blocking:
There were only 2 characters in the game with specials too fast to block: Lex Luthor and Deathstroke.

Notes on Lex Luthor: Corp Charge is too fast. From this range BA can't backdash safely. Jump back j2 and block punish (b1 xx black magic or d2) are the only options to punish this meterless.

Notes on Deathstroke: Sword Flip is too fast. Block punish (b1 xx black magic or b23) or backdash d3 or backdash MB b3 or backdash, back jump MB Far Boot Stomp to punish.

A few random notes for personal reference:

-Doomsday (venom blocked, 11/d2 punishable. upward venom blocked, b23 punishable)
-Flash (charge blocked, b23 punishable. uppercut whiffs -punish?)
-Green Lantern (lift blocked, b23 punishable)
-Nightwing (staff spin blocked, flying grayson whiffs -punish?)
-Raven (singularity and event horizon blocked, d2 punishable. soul crush blocked, 22 punishable)
-Superman (rising grab and low scoop blocked, d1 punishable)

 

[T4T|Nevan]

This is fu**ing great!!!

 

[Peckapowa]

you can punish killer frosts slide by just jumping over her and divekicking backwards...
instant divekick can punish some backdashes but its strict i noticed in the corner u can create a very ambiguous crossover with his close divekick and crossovers, plus its plus which can grant free trait pressure into grabs or ex low... goddamn seeing this new stuff makes him look so insane

i think ex lightning into his bomb on block grants a free ex divekick should grant a blackmagic atleast... it has so much goddamn pushback it could be situationally usefull, the timing is bizarre though


god this character is so good. u can punish jumps with black magic so u can use these new bomb traps this is insane.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Pushblock traps inspired by Cat's latest video on Joker teeth setups:

Pushblock Bomb Traps

So the combo starts like this: j2, b2 xx Trait, 22 xx Black Magic, nj2...

Then there's 3 main combo enders that grant enough frame advantage for pushblock traps:​

1. 22b1, dash, 11 xx Bomb​

2. 22b1 xx Bomb​

3. 22b1, dash, 113 xx Bomb​

​

I mostly tested the first 2 ones and found a bunch of specific setups for each character that I list below.

...combo ender
Character (specifics on what type of bomb to use to counter which wake up move, if dash is needed and if pushblock is needed [result])
[1] = This means they can't block the Bomb in time so they get launched for a full combo.
[2] = This means they recover in time to block but they can't jump out either so you get free pressure/chip. Note that the trait is available again.
(-) = This means there are either no good setups for this character or that there are better ones for other combo enders.

Spoiler

...22b1, dash 11 xx (close/mid) Bomb, (dash, Pushblock):

Aquaman (close bomb for trident rush, dash, block [1] or mid bomb for scoop, dash, pushblock [1])
Ares (-)
Bane (close bomb for uppercut and charge, backdash, b3 [1])
Batman (close bomb for slide, dash, block [1])
Black Adam (close bomb for cage, dash block [1] or mid bomb for cage, dash, pushblock/MB lightning Strike [1])
Catwoman (close bomb for catdash, dash, pushblock [1])
Cyborg (close bomb for power fist, dash, block d1/d2 punish [1])
Deathstroke (close bomb for sword spin, dash, get hit [1])
Doomsday (-)
Flash (close bomb for charge and uppercut, no dash, no pushblock [1] or mid bomb for charge, dash, pushblock [2])
Green Arrow (mid bomb for retreat arrow, dash, block, j2 cross-up [2])
Green Lantern (-)
Grundy (close bomb vs walking corpse, no dash, b23 [1])
Harley Quin (-)
Hawkgirl (close bomb for mace charge, walk back block [1])
Joker (mid bomb for acid blossom, dash, pushblock [2])
Killer Frost (mid bomb for slide, dash, pushblock [2])
Lex (close bomb for corp charge, dash, block b1 punish [1])
Nightwing (close bomb for flying grayson, dash, pushblock [1], close bomb for staff spin, dash, no pushblock [1])
Raven (close bomb for all, dash, block d1 punish [1] or mid bomb for all, dash, pushblock [1])
Shazam (-)
Sinestro (mid bomb for arachnid, dash, block b2 punish [1])
Superman (mid bomb for rising grab, dash, pushblock [2])
Wonder Woman (close bomb for lasso spin, dash, block [1])

...22b1 xx (close/mid) Bomb, (dash, Pushblock):

Aquaman (-)
Ares (-)
Bane (mid bomb for uppercut and charge, b3/dash pushblock [1])
Batman (close bomb for slide, dash no need to pushblock [1])
Black Adam (-)
Catwoman (mid bomb for catdash, dash pushblock [1])
Cyborg (mid bomb for power fist, dash pushblock [1])
Deathstroke (-)
Doomsday (mid bomb for venom, dash pushblock [1])
Flash (mid bomb for uppercut and charge, dash, block b2 punish [1], or close bomb for uppercut and charge, no dash, no pushblock [1])
Green Arrow (-)
Green Lantern (-)
Grundy ()
Harley Quin (mid bomb, MB Lightning Strike)
Hawkgirl (mid bomb for mace charge, dash block no pushblock [1])
Joker (far bomb for acid blossom, dash, psuhblock [2])
Killer Frost (mid bomb for slide, dash, pushblock [1] or close bomb for slide, no dash, pushblock [1])
Lex (-)
Nightwing (close bomb for flying grayson, dash, pushblock [1], close bomb for staff spin, dash, block [1])
Raven (-)
Shazam (-)
Sinestro (-)
Superman (mid bomb for rising grab, dash pushblock standing [1])
Wonder Woman (mid bomb for lasso spin, dash block no need to pushblock [1])

...22b1, dash, 113 xx (close/mid/far) Bomb, (dash, Pushblock):
(needs more testing) I don't really like this one because it sends them far away.

Aquaman (-)
Ares (-)
Bane (mid bomb for charge, dash, block [1])
Batman (mid bomb for slide, no dash, pushblock [1])
Black Adam (-)
Catwoman (-)
Cyborg (-)
Deathstroke (mid bomb for sword spin, no dash, pushblock [1])
Doomsday (mid bom for venom, no dash, pushblock [2])
Flash (-)
Green Arrow (-)
Green Lantern (mid bomb for lift, dash (let yourself hit) or fj2 [1])
Grundy (mid bomb for walking corpse, dash, b2 or delayed MB lightning storm [1] or dash, nj2)
Harley Quin (-)
Hawkgirl (mid bomb for mace charge, dash, block [2] leaves in perfect j2 cross-up position)
Joker (-)
Killer Frost (far bomb for slide, dash, pushblock [2])
Lex (mid bomb for corp charge, no dash, whiff punish whatever Lex does)
Nightwing (mid bomb for flying grayson, walk back, b3 whiff punish)
Raven ()
Shazam ()
Sinestro (-)
Superman ()
Wonder Woman (-)

 

[Briggs8417]

Vulcan Hades I've recently been messing with ending combos in sweep too because I'm trying to find some decent safe jumps setups. I will post my findings on here once I've tested everything I've wanted to test. I have a lot I want to toy with.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Finally, using BG interactables for okizeme purposes:

*NEEDS MORE TESTING because frame advantage/spacing seems to vary in other stages.

Here you can see that ending a combo with the "Gorilla Grodd" BG interactable allows the same pushblock trap (at least in Killer Frost's cases), the triple trap or an ambiguous cross-up setup. And unlike 22b1 it's untechable so they can't roll away.

btw I haven't tested all BG interactables. I just assumed that they were all untechable and gave the same frame advantage but maybe that's not the case.

Again you are sacrificing some damage but everything after the BG bounce scales so you're not giving up that much imo.

 

[HOWLSghost]

Finally, using BG interactables for okizeme purposes:

Here you can see that ending a combo with the "Gorilla Grodd" BG interactable allows the same pushblock trap (at least in Killer Frost's cases), the triple trap or an ambiguous cross-up setup. And unlike 22b1 it's untechable so they can't roll away.

btw I haven't tested all BG interactables. I just assumed that they were all untechable and gave the same frame advantage but maybe that's not the case.

Again you are sacrificing some damage but everything after the BG bounce scales so you're not giving up that much imo.

Quick question, I know interactables are non tech able but when I put the AI on roll back, they are still able to roll back after a interactable hit. Is rolling back the same as tech roll? Have you tried putting the AI on roll back and is this possible for a human to do in a live environment or just a bug?

Just wondering since I was going to mention bomb set ups with interactables but I put the comp on roll back and it messed up all of my set ups haha

 

[Vulcan Hades]

I just tested again and that one in Stryker's Island - Yard is definitely not possible to roll out. I don't know about other similar BG interactables.

EDIT:

The statues in Wayne Manor and Themyscira are also impossible to roll.

The throne in Atlantis is also untechable.

I'm not sure which interactable you are using but I was only talking about the background interactables that bounce the opponent.

 

[HOWLSghost]

My mistake. I'm testing again and youre right. The interactables where you bounce the characters off cannot be tech rolled.

I could've sworn I was messing around with it yesterday and the AI was rolling out of the interactable bounce...

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Ok, well about that last vid I might have to re-test some of that stuff because now I'm trying it on a different stage and I don't get the same results.

The exact same combo: j2, b2 xx trait, 22 xx black magic, INT seems to give me slightly different frame advantage or spacing if I use different BG interactables. Still not sure why that is the case.

But for example in the video I show that you can dash and block Killer Frost's slide in time. This is true for Stryker's Island - Yard. But untrue if you use the Helicopter in Gotham City - Rooftop. For some reason in that stage I am unable to dash and block Killer Frost in time. I don't know if it's because she appears closer or because the helicopter gives less frame advantage or whatever but it's something I'm gonna have to look into...

Also another small note: It seems you have a window to pushblock and sometimes you have to delay your pushblock slightly to make them unable to block your Bomb. In some rare cases if you pushblock too early they will recover in time to block.

 

[HOWLSghost]

i didn't know you can delay pushblock.. this opens a whole new world of tech

 

[Vulcan Hades]

My new favorite stage lol.

Again, as said before I still need to test this on all the stages to see which interactable gives more or less frame advantage.

 

[Suntan Superman]

Hey Guys, i'm new here so forgive me if I seem noobish. I've been working on a 3 meter bomb trap/reset that hits against wake-ups. I haven't tested it against many wake-ups just Doomsday and Grundy so far. It starts with a Far Boot Stomp(mb), Black magic(mb), mid lightning bomb, lightning strike(mb), Trait, walk forward-B23,U1+3. After the Trait there are a many combo options. i.e 112 lightning hands, lightning cage(mb) combo. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned any of these. So, if anyone has disregard. Tell me what you guys think.

 

[Suntan Superman]

Ok guys I did some more testing and realized that this works on slower ground wake-ups and in some cases (Doomsday supernova) its better to use the close lightning bomb. In other cases (Flash Lightning charge) its best to use the mid lightning bomb, push block. Shoutouts to Vulcan Hades. I'll keep testing different set-ups and try to make this as effective as i can.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Hey Guys, i'm new here so forgive me if I seem noobish. I've been working on a 3 meter bomb trap/reset that hits against wake-ups. I haven't tested it against many wake-ups just Doomsday and Grundy so far. It starts with a Far Boot Stomp(mb), Black magic(mb), mid lightning bomb, lightning strike(mb), Trait, walk forward-B23,U1+3. After the Trait there are a many combo options. i.e 112 lightning hands, lightning cage(mb) combo. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned any of these. So, if anyone has disregard. Tell me what you guys think.

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to do (I'm guessing stuffing wake up attacks). But that's 3 bars so I'm not sure it's worth it. If they just get up and block low you lost all that meter for 8-10% chip + you could have done between 32% and 48% from that MB boot stomp. Make sure the end reward is really worth the resources you are using.

Generally as a rule of thumb I try to never use more than 1-2 meters for a setup. And I try to minimize the damage lost in case the reset fails. What I mean by that is:

"20% combo reset into 40% potential damage" is worse than: "30% combo reset into 30% potential damage". The end reward is the same for both but in the second case I get 10% more damage if the reset fails.

 

[Suntan Superman]

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to do (I'm guessing stuffing wake up attacks). But that's 3 bars so I'm not sure it's worth it. If they just get up and block low you lost all that meter for 8-10% chip + you could have done between 32% and 48% from that MB boot stomp. Make sure the end reward is really worth the resources you are using.

Generally as a rule of thumb I try to never use more than 1-2 meters for a setup. And I try to minimize the damage lost in case the reset fails. What I mean by that is:

"20% combo reset into 40% potential damage" is worse than: "30% combo reset into 30% potential damage". The end reward is the same for both but in the second case I get 10% more damage if the reset fails.

Thanks for the tips.! You make perfect sense. I totally forgot about the low block stopping both the lightning bomb and the lightning strike. lol Alot of the guys i play offline always wake-up attack or tech roll and never low block. I also agree about using 1-2 bars at the most ,but i was trying to come up with some awesome tech.lol Back to the drawing board...

 

[Peckapowa]

My new favorite stage lol.

Again, as said before I still need to test this on all the stages to see which interactable gives more or less frame advantage.

sweet mother of christ...
i liked the usage of ex lighting to push him into the thing for massive frame advantage and the push block thing... ur a game breaker..

im gonna have to work in ex black magik for interactable resets.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Experimenting with F3 for hard knockdown off MB black magic:

So it's 2 meters for a decent whiff punish that ends with one of the best untechable knockdowns. The J1/J2s that follow can be super ambiguous.

The frame advantage and spacing varies greatly depending on how soon or late you hit F3. So the automatic timing setups are easier to land.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

DDKM (Dirty Dive Kick Mixup ) after 223 and 13 knockdowns:

j2, starter xx T, 22 xx black magic, 223 (33%)

and

j2, starter xx T, 22 xx black magic, nj2, 13 (35%)

Are the most consistent variations to get MB FBS to cross-up easily. Unfortunately the higher damaging combos ending with 13 are not very consistent and often result in fishy FBS that hit front but land behind. It's still possible to cross-up dive kick as shown in the video but it's much harder to time than with the less damaging combos.

AFAIK this works on everyone except tiny characters (FBS whiffs through Killer Frost for example). But I might need to test that further to make sure.

 

[Suntan Superman]

DDKM (Dirty Dive Kick Mixup ) after 223 and 13 knockdowns:

j2, starter xx T, 22 xx black magic, 223 (33%)

and

j2, starter xx T, 22 xx black magic, nj2, 13 (35%)

Are the most consistent variations to get MB FBS to cross-up easily. Unfortunately the higher damaging combos ending with 13 are not very consistent and often result in fishy FBS that hit front but land behind. It's still possible to cross-up dive kick as shown in the video but it's much harder to time than with the less damaging combos.

AFAIK this works on everyone except tiny characters (FBS whiffs through Killer Frost for example). But I might need to test that further to make sure.

Hey Vulcan Hades after the 223 and f13 knockdowns try jf3 xx fbs, 11 xx black magic (mb), trait, b23 u 1+3. Almost forgot with the f13 you need to dash once before the jf3. 49% damage and only 1 bar.