Can Injustice appeal to casuals?

[ApertureBlack]

Ill just leave this here

Casual play 101

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

Even pros use interactables.

Point?

 

[ApertureBlack]

Even pros use interactables.

Point?

You cant consider anyone pro at this point in the games life, you can consider them competitive though. I know its me, but I despise them.

But say with a straight face that long range damaging unblockables that cannot be punished by a fair portion of the cast doesn't sound like something a casual would consider "Unique and Silly" and play with them.

 

[TectonicSuperPlates]

My GF loves Injustice, its the first game since You Don't Know Jack she actively ASKS me to play with her.

A big cast full of characters she knows and loves, mashable combos, kicking people through walls and into space, panic mode shoulder button super - it's a dream game for a couple that wants to play together (but maybe one doesn't have much of a background in FGs).

Is she the next Tom Brady? Nope. Do I take it easy on her and maybe don't go for the dirt I'd do to people online? Yes. Do we have a ton of fun assing around with it? Yup.

IMO, Injustice is really well made. It has this wonderfully low barrier to entry that even the most novice of players can join in on, and then it has this whole other strata of legitimate fighting game grittiness. A true best of both worlds.

I play with my girlfriend too. She ain't Reo or Tom Brady, sooo....

Playing with her doesn't make me a better player. It's casual fun, sure, with someone else who doesn't know how to string 12 hit combos effortlessly.

 

[The Borax Kid]

Ill just leave this here

Casual play 101

If this video is suggesting they should fix the hitboxes for some of the interactibles, then I agree with it.

 

[ApertureBlack]

If this video is suggesting they should fix the hitboxes for some of the interactibles, then I agree with it.

Its my video and ya, it is.

That's the #1 reason I consider them casual crap, as the hitboxes/damage are insane.

 

[WayoftheFist]

It takes an hour tops to learn usable basic bnb's for characters in this game. If that's the reason a player loses it's easy enough to correct. That's not the reason casuals lose though. Reading the OP in this thread I can't even figure out what it is that you want from the game... autocombos like SFXT? It sounds like you want to overcome somebody elses effort without having to put in the effort yourself. Spend just one hour in practice mode, come out with bnb combos, ask self "was that really all that hard?"... Profit. It won't help you beat the casual mindset though. One of the people I played MK9 with was very casual. I even took time to teach him combos and basic strats so he could have a chance. It didn't help. If you have a casual mindset you're best off finding more casuals to play with instead of getting crushed by people who took the time to learn how to deal high damage.

 

[Monitor2112]

are you having trouble cancelling strings into specials?

I haven't even started trying canceling into specials regularly. The few times I have tried went terribly awry.

No, I'm trying to perfect basic strings such as 113, Escrima Stick currently, at least on Nightwing. On Superman I'm working on f23, Super Breath


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[THTB]

If you're asking how much a fighting game can cater to casuals, I mean, the obvious answer is that, by nature it really won't. That is, unless there is a backing behind it, such as the use of popular characters, which Injustice does have. That, and a comparatively easy-to-pick-up game engine, which Injustice actually also has. Alongside the tutorial being there to help you get started, the game is not very execution-intensive to boot. The combos in this game are exceedingly easy, in truth, and there's no truthfully advanced movement like a Tekken BDC or advanced tech such as Melee's L-Cancels (which is actually a fairly basic thing to understand)...at the most difficult, you're learning to do Cyborg's perfect instant air fireballs.

In all honesty, I don't know how you'd make this game any more casually appealing as a fighting game outside of making it very luck-based, like Mario Party lol.

 

[Monitor2112]

It takes an hour tops to learn usable basic bnb's for characters in this game. If that's the reason a player loses it's easy enough to correct. That's not the reason casuals lose though. Reading the OP in this thread I can't even figure out what it is that you want from the game... autocombos like SFXT? It sounds like you want to overcome somebody elses effort without having to put in the effort yourself. Spend just one hour in practice mode, come out with bnb combos, ask self "was that really all that hard?"... Profit. It won't help you beat the casual mindset though. One of the people I played MK9 with was very casual. I even took time to teach him combos and basic strats so he could have a chance. It didn't help. If you have a casual mindset you're best off finding more casuals to play with instead of getting crushed by people who took the time to learn how to deal high damage.

It is taking me much longer than an hour to learn basic bnb's for this game. I'm putting in the time trying to really learn a fighting game for the first time. I have always been a casual fighter. Going all the way back to games like the original Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct.

My friends and I would come home after a night of drinking and hanging out at the bar to screw around taking turns fighting each other on the Playstation. No one bothered to learn to play.

So I'm trying to learn despite almost twenty years of casual experience behind me. Which is why it is taking so long...I have almost twenty years of bad habits to overcome!


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[Saint Op Omen]

I really don't quite understand what this topic is going for...debating how easy the game is and how easy you can learn tactics and combos makes little difference if you are talking about casuals...A real casual picks up the game because they see superheros or they heard it was good etc.. and they go home and play story mode, some battle modes, dick around in STAR labs and play with some mates when they have time to screw around for fun ....everything else you are talking about is not a casual...
You are talking about players with varying degrees of skill and commitment ...if someone is going to spam wins for a few months because thats what is fun to them and they don't want to/need to learn more then that is what they will do...How good or easy to learn a game is will not change a persons personality...
Competitive players will do what it takes to be competitive regardless...
everyone in between is who I feel you are talking about because they will decide what their commitment level is based on several factors like those talked about in this thread...
If you are only asking about casuals which is where most money and word of mouth come from ...then yes it will and has been appealing to them based on personal experience...

 

[Bluddypoo]

I haven't even started trying canceling into specials regularly. The few times I have tried went terribly awry.

No, I'm trying to perfect basic strings such as 113, Escrima Stick currently, at least on Nightwing. On Superman I'm working on f23, Super Breath


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Maybe you aren't quite grasping how the combo input timing works in this game. If you focus on your character's animations to base your timing then you will never get it to work. Inputs happen independantly of the movements your character makes 99% of the time.

Memorizing button combinations is step one. Timing of input is step 2. Practice using that input in combat scenarios during pressure is step 3.

 

[Btt Ownge Mble]

I play with my girlfriend too. She ain't Reo or Tom Brady, sooo....

Playing with her doesn't make me a better player. It's casual fun, sure, with someone else who doesn't know how to string 12 hit combos effortlessly.

Ok, so you are here to get better. From your posts you seemed to be arguing in 2 different directions. You don't like 15 hit, 50% damage combos but at the same time you were not happy with the brain dead zoning of DS (I'm not a DS hater, but anyone can see that you don't need to do much to at least give most players a hard time getting in with it). Ok, so you don't want to use 15 hit combos that require tons of execution... ok, we can work with this... onto your next post:

I'm trying to main and focus on Lobo. I love the character, so I want to focus on him.

I play by myself, yeah. I have my friends, but they aren't online all the time. So it's just usually me in either random ranked battles or training.



But what I find most absurd is that I can't win by sticking solely to fundamentals. I need to perform big time combos to win in this game.

You can call me elitist or not, but I'm going to tell you straight up bro.... YOU DO NOT HAVE GOOD FUNDAMENTALS. Also, "good" fundamentals are arguably harder to master in this game then combos... but it's ok if you can't do any combos. I haven't seen you play, and I would love to analyze any video of your play if you have it, but I guarantee you are doing some of these things that you shouldn't be doing:

- You are jumping too much... Aquaman off the top of my head can d2 you into one of those 40% combos that you hate so much

- You do not quite grasp the difference between an overhead or a low attack. Most characters have overhead and low combo starters, if you are losing to these characters you need to learn which starters they use most often and be sure to block the correct way.... once you learn to block overheads and lows better then your opponent may try to throw you... which isn't terrible b/c throws only do like 13% or something..... so actually maybe you should consider more tick throws instead of beefy combos

- You are being crossed up and not blocking the correct way. Since I'm not sure how much you know about crossups I will explain: If a character jumps over you and and hits you on the other side of your character, you have to block the other way. For example, if someone from the right jumps over you onto the left and tries to do an air attack you must switch from holding left to holding right

- You do not know your characters anti-air attacks... sort of the inverse of my first point. Lobo has some really good anti airs, standing 3, his bf3, and I think his air throw, db1 is really good for picking people out of the air. If you can't do combos, you can at least set the computer to jump in attack in practice mode and learn how to deal with jumpers

- You are not using pushblock, dash back, meter burned b3 or f3, or other tools to escape your opponents pressure


Ok, onto the next point: You do not know how to play Lobo well. Honestly he's new, he's different, not many people do. But obviously the way your playing him is wrong if you made this post. Once again game footage of you would help us to analyze you and give you better pointers on how to win, even without combos.

You should be looking for opportunities to get his Czar throw off on an opponent. Now with his basic bnb you could do 38%, but since it is execution heavy even for more dexterous gamers, we'll stick with a 27% bnb that you should be able to do: Czar throw meter burn, 112, bf3. This does 27% and leaves you in perfect position to continue pressure. I saw in another post you mentioned that you are trying to a combo ending in his db2 whip grab.... Do not use db2 whip grab..... ever. That move knocks your opponent too far away and Lobo is an up close character.

Please see Tom Brady's video in the Lobo section for an actual visual aide on this, but if you are within sweep distance of an opponent, you can use his 21 string and then either go into a czar toss (for that 27% bnb I stated earlier) or you can go for a db3 low chain.... The low chain is unsafe so you will get punished for one of those 30-40% combos that you despise, but that's the price you pay for a good mixup.

Option 3: You do the 21 string and then do a meter burned bf3. This puts you up in their face and leaves you at a frame advantage of +3 I believe. From here, you can go for a b12 I believe which is a low starter and is + on block I think someone mentioned. Or you could go for the 21 low chain vs czar toss option here, or you probably straight up throw the person for 13%, not a bad idea. Also you have the option of an instant overhead if you jump and immediately do d3. In fact, that's one of my favorite moves to use with him. It also advances you forward a bit so you can play with the distance to see at what range you can hit the lowest... Ideally you want to hit them at their feet.

Also if enemies are advancing or retreating on you, try to abuse the hell out of low chain (db3) as much as possible. I believe it's at least half screen, so try to do it there since it's hard for alot of the cast to punish at that range.

His f213 string is slow, but advances forward and is safe on block, so you can also try that out... also it looks really damn cool.

Like I said earlier, if you see someone jump at you, you can always use a neutral 3 to hit them out of the air.



Ok, in conclusion: While "15 hit combos" as you like to call them, are a part of the game, they are actually not essential to win. If I were you I'd work on getting better on defense and at defending the starting strings for these combos from each character. If you are on xbox I'd be more than happy to play you.... I'll use Lobo, I won't use any combos aside from ones I that I feel my roommate can pull off (He's garbage at fighting games).

And let me know if there's any character that's giving you trouble, and I or someone else with knowledge of the matchup will try to help.

*edit: I forgot to mention that czar toss is only if they are blocking the 21 string

 

[Monitor2112]

Maybe you aren't quite grasping how the combo input timing works in this game. If you focus on your character's animations to base your timing then you will never get it to work. Inputs happen independantly of the movements your character makes 99% of the time.

Memorizing button combinations is step one. Timing of input is step 2. Practice using that input in combat scenarios during pressure is step 3.

That does appear to be my problem. I am used to input command, watch it happen, input next command, etc. It is trying to break this habit that is taking me the most time.

Like I said I am getting it sometimes...but it all comes down to fundamentals...I need to develop them. My biggest problem is a combination of executing step 1 correctly (for example inputting down 1 instead of down back 1) and step 2 getting the correct timing of the inputs.

Occasionally to practice this I am doing things like looking at just the controller and not the tv, or closing my eyes while inputting the commands.


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[Critical-Limit]

I'm actually NOT casual.

and I'm not really enjoying myself in Injustice. It feels more like work than fun to me, so unless this DLC proves to be a "miracle fun" for me. I'm probably gonna drop the game.

 

[WayoftheFist]

It is taking me much longer than an hour to learn basic bnb's for this game. I'm putting in the time trying to really learn a fighting game for the first time. I have always been a casual fighter. Going all the way back to games like the original Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct.

My friends and I would come home after a night of drinking and hanging out at the bar to screw around taking turns fighting each other on the Playstation. No one bothered to learn to play.

So I'm trying to learn despite almost twenty years of casual experience behind me. Which is why it is taking so long...I have almost twenty years of bad habits to overcome!


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I can relate. The first time I ever tried to actually learn a fighting game was MK9. Take your time and break the combos into chunks. Put the pieces of it into muscle memory then adjust the timing till it works. It gets easier the more you do it too. Picking up my first main in MK9 probably 75% of my time went to combo execution, where in IGAU those have come along pretty fast. If you have the patience you will get to the point that you don't even think about it and the combo kind of just happens.

 

[Monitor2112]

I can relate. The first time I ever tried to actually learn a fighting game was MK9. Take your time and break the combos into chunks. Put the pieces of it into muscle memory then adjust the timing till it works. It gets easier the more you do it too. Picking up my first main in MK9 probably 75% of my time went to combo execution, where in IGAU those have come along pretty fast. If you have the patience you will get to the point that you don't even think about it and the combo kind of just happens.

That's been how I'm doing it. Breaking it into chunks. I'm one week away from another birthday. I'm determined to prove this old dog can learn some new tricks. One way or another. 8)


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[Monitor2112]

Maybe you aren't quite grasping how the combo input timing works in this game. If you focus on your character's animations to base your timing then you will never get it to work. Inputs happen independantly of the movements your character makes 99% of the time.

Memorizing button combinations is step one. Timing of input is step 2. Practice using that input in combat scenarios during pressure is step 3.

This reply was actually very helpful as I started just inputting the commands as Nightwing and started hitting consistently the 113 combo into Escrima Fury (df2). I have not, however been able to get it to hit the next portion of the combo which is f3, j2. I've been checking the input command and I am getting it right according to the command log on the side of the screen however he does nothing after the df2 string...no matter how quickly I input f3,j2 nothing happens. Is there something I am missing?

I am trying to do this combo here from the Nightwing forums

- 113(first hit)~Escrima Fury, F3, J2, F213(first hit)~Flipkick(30% | With J2 or MB: 34% | With J2 and MB: 38%)

http://testyourmight.com/threads/stick-around-get-it-the-updated-official-combo-thread.31982/#post-863059

 

[Bluddypoo]

This reply was actually very helpful as I started just inputting the commands as Nightwing and started hitting consistently the 113 combo into Escrima Fury (df2). I have not, however been able to get it to hit the next portion of the combo which is f3, j2. I've been checking the input command and I am getting it right according to the command log on the side of the screen however he does nothing after the df2 string...no matter how quickly I input f3,j2 nothing happens. Is there something I am missing?

I am trying to do this combo here from the Nightwing forums

- 113(first hit)~Escrima Fury, F3, J2, F213(first hit)~Flipkick(30% | With J2 or MB: 34% | With J2 and MB: 38%)

http://testyourmight.com/threads/stick-around-get-it-the-updated-official-combo-thread.31982/#post-863059

in that combo, after the 113 string + Escrima Fury the combo "ends" meaning no matter how fast you input f3 it will do nothing. There is a pause there. You will have to wait like half a second before you F3. I assume the F3 is some kind of overhead that gives you a knockup. So basically you would be doing 113+Escrima, pause while the opponent is in the air or whatever, then hit F3 (opponent flies in to the air), then input the J2+F213+Flipkick string. If you try to input these combos all as one long string they will not work.

Usually you will have an input string of a couple hits + a "finisher" or special/super. This special/super chains with the string in order to give you juggle (a kind of knockup or daze affect on the target that does not end the combo.) After the super you start a new string of inputs or just normals to keep the combo going or to get the opponent in to a position (juggling) where you can continue the combo without the opponent being able to react.

In the combo you posted: - 113(first hit)~Escrima Fury, F3, J2, F213(first hit)~Flipkick(30% | With J2 or MB: 34% | With J2 and MB: 38%)

The ~ represents that you will be using a "cancel" meaning you input that string (113) in to a special (escrima fury)
The , represents a pause in the combo, meaning you wait until everything hits and the opponent gets knocked up or dazed for you to continue
Im not sure what he means by "first hit"

So the combo would really be something like 113+escrima Fury as one string of button presses, PAUSE, F3 (to knock the opponent up), PAUSE, J2+F213+Flipkick.

 

[Chrishaspads]

th

I find it funny how people seem to think sitting in the corner spamming projectiles and using interactables has any affect on players who actually know how to play the game and perform big time combos.

that is the worst pic of captain america ever.. i love it

 

[Monitor2112]

in that combo, after the 113 string + Escrima Fury the combo "ends" meaning no matter how fast you input f3 it will do nothing. There is a pause there. You will have to wait like half a second before you F3. I assume the F3 is some kind of overhead that gives you a knockup. So basically you would be doing 113+Escrima, pause while the opponent is in the air or whatever, then hit F3 (opponent flies in to the air), then input the J2+F213+Flipkick string. If you try to input these combos all as one long string they will not work.

Usually you will have an input string of a couple hits + a "finisher" or special/super. This special/super chains with the string in order to give you juggle (a kind of knockup or daze affect on the target that does not end the combo.) After the super you start a new string of inputs or just normals to keep the combo going or to get the opponent in to a position (juggling) where you can continue the combo without the opponent being able to react.

In the combo you posted: - 113(first hit)~Escrima Fury, F3, J2, F213(first hit)~Flipkick(30% | With J2 or MB: 34% | With J2 and MB: 38%)

The ~ represents that you will be using a "cancel" meaning you input that string (113) in to a special (escrima fury)
The , represents a pause in the combo, meaning you wait until everything hits and the opponent gets knocked up or dazed for you to continue
Im not sure what he means by "first hit"

So the combo would really be something like 113+escrima Fury as one string of button presses, PAUSE, F3 (to knock the opponent up), PAUSE, J2+F213+Flipkick.

Thanks. That makes more sense as to why it was not working.

 

[VizNasty]

It seems to me casuals will pick this game up because they have a pre-existing fondness for the DC universe. Many will play 30min. at a time, and only once in a while or when they have a friend over. This is possibly one of the best fighters for that because of the flavor. Fighting games in general have a high barrier of entry, as it takes skill, time for practice and a lot of effor to get even decent. I would bet that a very low percentage of people who purchase this title will ever be intermediate - and most couldn't care less as it's more of a party favor than a serious game for many.

 

[VizNasty]

I have always been a casual fighter. Going all the way back to games like the original Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct.

Both of these games were Gold!

 

[Monitor2112]

Both of these games were Gold!

Yes they were. As I said my friends and I would kick back have few beers and fight. Fight meaning just press button!

I am really tying to actually Learn the game. Today I'm taking a breakout plan on trying to get some time in tonight


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[webreg]

Casuals could have fun with this if the online would be better and people there wouldn't be dicks. It isn't and they are. Furthermore every fighting game can be enjoyed by casual players if they play each other and are of approximately equal level. Injustice even more so because it is very flashy and everyone can do wall juggles, stage transitions, clashes, MB launcher and use interactables. This is the same for every single character. Learn the special moves of a couple of the cast and you are good to go. I watched a friend who hates fighting games enjoy this game immensely by just using the common move set everyone has, special moves and stage stuff. He never had to use combos and he didn't want to.

The problem was that once he jumped online the people there were obliterating him. He has troubles getting out normal specials reliably while his opponents juggled him to kingdom come. He obviously got frustrated and abandoned online. And this is the problem with every damn fighting game. People who have no prior knowledge and experience are not able to find each other online. Instead they get preyed upon by those stat whores who actively look for players with low scores so they can boost their ego. So all those abused newcomers leave the game even though they would enjoy it and would eventually get better. Matchmaking in this game is a damn joke and the online experience is clunky, buggy, laggy and filled with dicks. While NRS tried to make offline versus CPU varied and exciting they kind of failed to make an enjoyable AI so players easily have a better time playing something else.