Stop overrating MK9's Balance, Injustice is better

[RWDY Nori]

The sad part is, if REO or any top player made a thread about how they enjoy cupcakes, it would still get 20 pages

 

[Sasarix]

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

This post just goes to show, the research hasn't been done. Green Arrow can backdash it, Black Adam can backdash it, there are likely a few others who can as well. Of course certain characters have a more difficult time escaping it, welcome to nuanced and diverse match-ups!

What's wrong the the options you listed? You said it yourself, you can armor it or interrupt it with normals. By the way, it doesn't have to be 6F. Let me use an example to illustrate the benefits of knowing what you're talking about:

Flash's D2 is definitely not 6F, it's slower. Yet for some strange reason it with beat Superman's F2 (made 7f by the +1 post-Breath). So how could that work? How could a move that is slower than 7f beat a move that starts in 7f? It's the same reason Aquaman's D2 wins without question. F2's weakness is that it loses to moves that lower the opponent's hurtbox. Frame advantage doesn't affect this situation too much; a move that causes an opponent's body / limb to shrink in size, and is fast enough, can beat F2 anyways.

Another example of this. GL's B1 is 9f, Superman's F2 is 8f. Regardless of how you time F2, it will always lose to B1 head to head. With minor advantage or disadvantage or even standing still at neutral. It's just the way those two moves interact.

What I'm saying is, a lot of characters have options but people are so preoccupied with the proverbial "its broken waaahhhh" to realize it. Also, what "fuckload" of mix-ups are you talking about? I either F2 or I don't, that's the only frame trap he has. That's ONE OPTION. Stop exaggerating.

I already know about altering your hitbox, but its not reliable, WW has the same thing, sometimes it will work, sometimes it wont, and thats all dependent on how close you block the ice breath. Even so, that doesn't change the fact that the risk reward is heavily in Supermans favour. The basic possibilities are either:

- Block supermans string
- Try to D1 him out (and be successful) for frame advantage, which wont really help that much for most characters since backdashes are so strong in this game
- Try to D1 him out (and be unsuccessful) and get whiff punished for a load of damage.

But it's not like it doesnt give you throw opportunities, sweep opportunities, air dash opportunities, time to escape.
So theres at least 8 options going on at the same time as a F23 ice breath. Thats more options than WW gets on a knockdown I believe.


Alot of characters can't backdash it though, so thats why other players find it a problem.


I personally dont give a shit tbh, cause I play a character that has everything she needs to compete with Superman.

 

[SLy]

. I don't know what happened to all of the Deathstroke complainers... I guess they gave up?

It was battle they were never going to win anyway.. DS is solid from top to bottom and there isnt anything broken about him. The way his gameplay is structured is just very good.

 

[Raynex]

I already know about altering your hitbox, but its not reliable, WW has the same thing, sometimes it will work, sometimes it wont, and thats all dependent on how close you block the ice breath. Even so, that doesn't change the fact that the risk reward is heavily in Supermans favour. The basic possibilities are either:

- Block supermans string
- Try to D1 him out (and be successful) for frame advantage, which wont really help that much for most characters since backdashes are so strong in this game
- Try to D1 him out (and be unsuccessful) and get whiff punished for a load of damage.

But it's not like it doesnt give you throw opportunities, sweep opportunities, air dash opportunities, time to escape.
So theres at least 8 options going on at the same time as a F23 ice breath. Thats more options than WW gets on a knockdown I believe.


Alot of characters can't backdash it though, so thats why other players find it a problem.


I personally dont give a shit tbh, cause I play a character that has everything she needs to compete with Superman.

D1 for frame advantage...but you can D1 xx special move for a full combo of your choosing with so many characters. D1~Catclaws, D1~lift, D1~whatever! I've been punished like that numerous times for attempting to F2 mindlessly up close.

You forgot two options for escape: pushblock and [MB] F3 / B3 for big damage. These use meter but are VERY effective and completely universal. Are you intentionally omitting these legitimate options in your posts to make it seem more inescapable? That's a lame way to go about this debate.

- You can't throw after Breath unless you walk forward. Even if you start F23 xx Breath at point blank you can't reach them to throw. You have to either walk or dash into range, at which point you can be poked and you will lose all momentum.

- F23 xx Breath, Sweep? You've got to be kidding. Block low all day, his overheads are slow and reactable. No low should hit you during F23 xx Breath pressure unless you're sleeping on defense or misinformed.

- "F23 xx Breath, jump airdash forward" is linear and telegraphed and he can't attack until the airdash is done. You can REACTION neutral / back j.1 for a full combo, or dash underneath him and trip guard. It's very easy to anti air because it takes so long to do.

 

[SLy]

- F23 xx Breath, Sweep? You've got to be kidding. Block low all day, his overheads are slow and reactable. No low should hit you during F23 xx Breath pressure unless you're sleeping on defense or misinformed.

Yea Im starting to realize with superman You always have to block low first and React high. Good point.

 

[RWDY Nori]

Yea Im starting to realize with superman You always have to block low first and React high. Good point.

No. He's broken. There is no answer to him. Ban him

 

[Raynex]

This could have all been rectified had people just come to the damn Superman forums. TYM baffles me to no end.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

D1 for frame advantage...but you can D1 xx special move for a full combo of your choosing with so many characters. D1~Catclaws, D1~lift, D1~whatever! I've been punished like that numerous times for attempting to F2 mindlessly up close.

You forgot two options for escape: pushblock and [MB] F3 / B3 for big damage. These use meter but are VERY effective and completely universal. Are you intentionally omitting these legitimate options in your posts to make it seem more inescapable? That's a lame way to go about this debate.

- You can't throw after Breath unless you walk forward. Even if you start F23 xx Breath at point blank you can't reach them to throw. You have to either walk or dash into range, at which point you can be poked and you will lose all momentum.

- F23 xx Breath, Sweep? You've got to be kidding. Block low all day, his overheads are slow and reactable. No low should hit you during F23 xx Breath pressure unless you're sleeping on defense or misinformed.

- "F23 xx Breath, jump airdash forward" is linear and telegraphed and he can't attack until the airdash is done. You can REACTION neutral / back j.1 for a full combo, or dash underneath him and trip guard. It's very easy to anti air because it takes so long to do.

You asked for OPTIONS I gave you options, if you're gonna just talk like a prick then go fuck yourself, cause I'd put money on it that I'd ass rape your 'mindless' Superman.

D1 into special is character dependent, if you wanna do D1 lift with Raven, go ahead, you aint gonna be able to hitconfirm it, so just throw all your chips in on a gamble that Superman doesnt ever have to take.

 

[RWDY Nori]

You asked for OPTIONS I gave you options, if you're gonna just talk like a prick then go fuck yourself, cause I'd put money on it that I'd ass rape your 'mindless' Superman.

He just listed counter points to what you said and now you want to ass rape him? Having a bad day?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

He just listed counter points to what you said and now you want to ass rape him?

PND way.

I'm one of the few players on this site that support Superman as he is, and I'm getting shit for it from a Superman player, OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
But he did say himself that he mindlessly does F23, now imagine if you actually put some thought into your gameplan with F23, then you have a really POWERFUL character.

 

[RWDY Nori]

PND way.

I'm one of the few players on this site that support Superman as he is, and I'm getting shit for it from a Superman player, OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
But he did say himself that he mindlessly does F23, now imagine if you actually put some thought into your gameplan with F23, then you have a really POWERFUL character.

Ok, I think you both were just having a debate about F23 abuse and neither of you said anything really bad to each other, so I still don't grasp the hostility but you can do whatever you want.

 

[Solid]

PND way.

I'm one of the few players on this site that support Superman as he is, and I'm getting shit for it from a Superman player, OKAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY.
But he did say himself that he mindlessly does F23, now imagine if you actually put some thought into your gameplan with F23, then you have a really POWERFUL character.

Superman is fine in my opinion too. But they will cry to no end no matter what any of us think. When the next characters dirt turn up they will cry some more until this game ends up like mk 9 where 1 or 2 characters go under the radar and they will rule Injustice like Kabal and Kenshi.

 

[dribirut]

You asked for OPTIONS I gave you options, if you're gonna just talk like a prick then go fuck yourself, cause I'd put money on it that I'd ass rape your 'mindless' Superman.

D1 into special is character dependent, if you wanna do D1 lift with Raven, go ahead, you aint gonna be able to hitconfirm it, so just throw all your chips in on a gamble that Superman doesnt ever have to take.

Sounds like a challenge lol streamed first to five?

 

[Sasarix]

seems that way anyway

 

[Raynex]

Sigh

You gave me options but not all of them, therefore it is not an accurate expression of the truth. You're over-exaggerating it's effectiveness by leaving two of the best options out. Yes it is character dependent, every character and match-up is different, some better some worse (welcome to fighting games). Your hostility tells me you've run out of good points.

You can D1 xx special move and nothing will come out if Superman stands there, as the D1 will whiff. D1 will only connect if Superman moves forward via walking / dashing / F2ing again. Therefore it isn't even close to as risky as you're making it seem.

I'm not giving you shit, I'm correcting you because a number of your points are flawed and involve shitty rhetoric. Also because I'm a mainstay in the Superman forums and I have a pretty well-informed background on the character. Just because I get overzealous with a few F2s and mindlessly throw one out during pressure, doesn't mean it's the only thing I'm capable of. I do put thought into my gameplan, that's why I won my city's first tournament.

 

[16 Bit]

What makes Superman's f+2,3 so ridiculous isn't just the +1 breath mixups. It's the f+2,3 itself. 8 frame move with insane range. He dominates that range. Even if his followup mixups are only slightly in his favor or a neutral guessing game it's still an extremely powerful tool just because he's playing the game and they're not.

 

[Solid]

What makes Superman's f+2,3 so ridiculous isn't just the +1 breath mixups. It's the f+2,3 itself. 8 frame move with insane range. He dominates that range. Even if his followup mixups are only slightly in his favor or a neutral guessing game it's still an extremely powerful tool just because he's playing the game and they're not.

His f2's ridiculous range reminds me of a certain lady in a blue suit d1's ridiculous range.

 

[aldazo]

...Why cant we learn what to complain about and what we should adapt to...

I guess we can learn, but as for now we don't agree about what to complain and what to adapt. some say no nerf just buffs others says no buff no nerfs but tweak a little the game mechanics, etc. I say... I dont know .

 

[CCVengeance]

This thread.So because I main Superman my opinion is invalid?LOL
muda muda

 

[Issen]

If you ever truly tried to play TTT or even TTT2 on a competitive level, even though it's high and you can duck it, you'll always be convinced it's mid cause it's just THAT kind of weird move. And yes it can be sidestepped but..........do you have any idea how difficult that is to do? I have never seen anybody consistently do that in a tournament setting.

I know it's difficult to sidestep. I can't do it. I was really just pointing out that even just-frame moves have certain weaknesses, so you can't throw them out in a braindead fashion.
As for ducking it, if you know that it can be ducked, then the problem isn't confusing it with a mid, it's knowing that crouching is dangerous in general because you're playing Tekken. That's a significant part of the Mishima wavedash mixup.
Of course, I will concede that I only got to about the intermediate level with Tekken.

 

[SaltShaker]

That Aquaman/Sinestro MU though.

 

[CY MasterHavik]

Ummm....I think Raven will be able to asrob/reflect f+23 breath...even meter burn it into free damage with mb reflect.