To the people crying for nerfs and buffs and so-called rumors...

[Solid]

Hello everybody,

Every day that I come on this site I see some kind of thread about nerfs and buffs. I really don't get it and it is really frustrating and annoying. I know some people came newly to this site for Injustice and maybe they are not familiar with MK9 and the result of the all around crying and demanding for nerfs and buffs for that game. But it's not only new members. A lot of long time members seem to have forgotten too. Even sadder is that a lot of so-called top players are doing the same thing.

I will give an example of why this is annoying because it could lead to a specific problem. It could lead to unfair nerfs and unwarranted buffs.

Everybody need just look at the first EVO for MK9 which Perfect Legend won. PL fought REO's Mileena in the grand finals and everybody who saw the grand finals I think would remember the 24 low hat comeback. The 24 low hat was good but nowhere overpowered. Kung Lao also had the spin with pushback which great players like Tom Brady could dash and punish while others still couldn't seem to do at that time. After that first MK EVO I remember a lot of people starting using Kung Lao especially online. We all know how the online is for MK9. People all over the world started crying just like a lot are doing now for Injustice about buffs and nerfs. Scrubs and so-called top players alike. They got their wish. Kung Lao was unfairly nerfed and many other characters went under the radar and we now know in what beasts they turned out to be.

By now some of you might be saying "what is this guy talking about? Unfairly nerfed GTFOH!". I will explain my statement. Look at the second EVO. Perfect Legend came back and won it again. He won without 24 low hat and without the spin+pushback. He won it with an unfairly nerfed Kung Lao. I wonder if people see something there. In my opinion, by the time of the second EVO for MK9 people still didn't know how to fight Kung Lao. Even with his nerfs Perfect Legend still bodied his opposition.

I truly believe to this day that Perfect Legend didn't win because Kung Lao was too good. Kung Lao was good indeed but not in any way a Kabal or Kenshi good. This can easily be seen by the success rate of other players using Kung Lao. and I mean solely using Kung Lao. CDjr did good with him for a while but CDjr is a great player that can do well with any character he chooses.

Some of you might not believe me or maybe your ego's will make you deny my following statement. Perfect Legend won those two EVO'S for MK9 because he knew and played the game better than all of us. He outplayed all of us (MKC). He was on a higher level than most of the MKC. Many people just panicked and cowered at his Kung Lao. People where terrified of the teleport late/instant 3, his dashing in hitting buttons etc and many people didn't do shit to punish him. Nobody abused the fact that Kung Lao had no mid hitting starting normal and could only jail you with his most useful strings after a jump in punch.

That was the past. I kindly request everybody to go look at the old EVO footage and think for yourselves how different the outcome of those matches would be if it happened right now. Think even which characters would be used (by you) now. Which characters would most likely be used now in the finals.

Maybe this is a rant by a nobody (as I'm sure some of you might be thinking this) but let me assure you I can play both these games and I know what I'm talking about. As a reminder and an example look what happened with the same Perfect Legend when a unknown beat him a VXG. He got beaten cause by that time people knew how to blow up Kung Lao, not taking away that GROSS is a real good player too. At this moment most of you know how to blow him (Kung Lao) up too. Everybody knows how to punish all his stuff and how to exploit his weaknesses. He is still good but I'm sure you guys would blow up the old Kung Lao too.

That is why Kung Lao was unfairly nerfed. By now at the current level of the majority of the MKC every decent player could blow up the old Kung Lao just the same as if he was the nerfed one.

All of this was just one example. With time people will level up. I takes time to learn match ups. It takes time to learn how to punish properly. Some people are really talented and learn the in's and out's of a game fairly quickly while others have to grind it out. I belong to the latter part sadly.

I beg everybody to please stop wasting everybody's time with the crying for buffs and nerfs for Injustice. Just play the game. Explore it. I'm sure many things have to be found out before anything that is truly overpowered and can not be countered in any way needs to be patched. The block infinites, inescapable resets and truly things that have no counter to stop it or beat it I agree should go. Leave the rest alone. Let the game develop. As time goes by we will know what are the best strategies and tactics to use. We will lear how to punish properly. People and myself included should just level up. That is the nature of all fighting games. At first everything is hard. As time goes by everything becomes easy. MK still has fucked up things but we still play it. We have adapted. Lets not ruin the Injustice characters with stupid nerfs and buffs and let's just explore, learn and adapt to the game and it's mechanics etc.

Till here my post. I hope you guys enjoy this read and feel free to blow me up or whatever. What I wrote here is a proven phenomenom. It takes time to master a fighting game. It takes time to master anything really. People consistently hit one frame links in other games and here we are crying about timing wake up attacks and many other stuff too. It just takes some time.

 

[Bildslash]

Can I ask for a Doomsday skin buff?

 

[JaredL]

I if I had an arrow code for every time someone made a post that smelled of circlejerk, fart sniffing and backslapping about how nerfs or buffs shouldn't be called for, I'd have a lot of arrow codes.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Can I ask for a Doomsday skin buff?

Bild u so cray.

 

[Boodendorf]

Can I ask for a Doomsday skin buff?

Hawkgirl and Killer Frost skin buffs come first bro.
Cause ya know, boobies.

 

[DreadzTsung]

Doomsday needs no buffs you idiot. Nerf that bitch!!!!!! Nerfing his body press didn't do shit. Nerf that Overhead Low shit in the corner and I'll be happy.

 

[Wigy]

Yeah but the pushback on the best AA in the game with 6f startup and 2-4 hat in comparison with the tools the other characters had was stupid. Thats why he got nerfed. I agree he shouldn't have got nerfed, but the other characters should have got buffs.

As should characters in injustice.

 

[Doombawkz]

Some of you might not believe me or maybe your ego's will make you deny my following statement.

When trying to convince people to agree with your statement, don't include ad hominem. It discredits your commentary though means of logical fallacy.

That aside, the game is new sure, but even still the call for controlled buffing/nerfing isn't as bad as everyone demonizes it to be. Certain characters can be buffed/nerfed to small degrees to streamline gameplay and help growth overall. Take a game like League of Legends, where characters get subtle tweaks every month or so. Some characters get a nerf and it is a touch too severe, so they notch it back up with a buff. Eventually, the characters become mostly balanced out in their respective roles, and the game as a whole grows with it.


People like you make the mistake of absolutes. You play the scenario as though once a character is nerfed they will become unviable instantly, and will never become viable again. Though this has happened in some circumstances, there's an equal number of times where the opposite is true and the nerfs were either temporary or miniscule overall. Some characters in this game, currently, do need buffs. Bane is an obvious contender for buffs due to how heavy his venom debuff is, his low damage, and his overall lack of ability to get in on the opponent. Its not a matter of how the character is played later on, its a matter of what the character clearly lacks.

This is not to say that we want no debuffs on venom, however. Most of the Bane community are calling for a collection of small changes that tweak the gameplay for him into a more reasonable area. Things such as the damage taken being reduced, more armor/damage on level 2 venom, and even his air grab having some benefit from venom are just a couple of aspects and none of them require huge buffs or nerfs to happen.

Knee-jerk buff/nerfs en masse are bad, yes. Controlled buffs/nerfs are not, however. Calling for people to abandon trying to balance out a game in its early stages to help it survive later down the line is almost insulting coming from our own community. Practice moderation, and yes learn your characters enough to know their options and your opponents options, but don't shut out the idea of rebalancing small aspects for the sake of avoiding the past large errors. This is a time to learn and grow, not to fear.

 

[M.D.]

Stopped reading here

Kung Lao was unfairly nerfed

and threw myself out the window with the PC wrapped arround my neck.


Edit: Ok dammit I read further and the argument you said about "unfairly" didn't help you at all in your statement. PL winning with the nerfed KungLao proves the character with all the nerfs, was STILL a good/better/TOP character. So the nerfs were FAIR.

And the fact that the top cream players could punish the un-nerfed kung lao doesn't mean the rest of the world has to suffer for it. The nerfs were perfect in that they didn't lower the character but made it more accessible to the rest of the players to punish.

 

[DreadzTsung]

NERF DOOMSDAY!!! OVERHEAD LOW IN CORNER IS GAY!!!! NERF THAT SHIT!!!

 

[EGGXI]

All I see is more impenetrable walls of text basically talking about the same thing all the Nerf/Buff related threads say.

 

[TPH GUNSHOT]

We are in the era where patching is very popular. No one wants to put in the work, they just want to win. When they lose its not their fault. I play all fighting games (except SkullGirls and Darkstalkers lol) and sit in training mode and try to find out how to beat people and characters. If I have problems, I ask questions. There is no room for growth anymore in any community. I was Outraged when I seen how people complained about Deathstroke. SSF4 is getting a nerf because no one wants to adapt, I would hate to see the same thing happen to this game. I loved MK9 (I stopped playing because the only people I knew play Capcom games) but that game got the First-Aid kit, all because people want to complain.

 

[STRYKIE]

I pointed this out last year, I like how the spin pushback and low hat was nerfed solely because of Mileena yet she still can't do anything about them even AFTER the nerfs. Don't mind me though, I'm just a Scorpion D3~X-ray masher that doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

All joking aside, good post. Makes you wonder how/where those nerfs would've been distributed if the community was patient enough to hold out for frame data.

Edit: I think the word you're looking for is unnecessarily rather than unfairly. Similarly, alot of players picked up Cage for JOP's F3,2~nutpunch vortex, and was also nerfed, which was necessary because you aren't supposed to be able to link specials on a grounded opponent after a complete string. That'd be like 333~ghostball working with Noob Saibot.

 

[DreadzTsung]

I complain about domesday because I have a right too. I PRACTICE LIKE SHIT ON BLOCKING HIS OVERHEAD LOW CORNER TRAP and online I get demolished. All my hard work and practice down the fucking drain.

 

[Malec]

do you have another story featuring stryker, sindel, sheeva, baraka at that time?

i can understand nerfing some overused chars to early isnt a good idea, i have no problem superman keeping his f23breath bullshit and ds his braindead zoning and whatever is out there people are bitching about, as long as some characters who have obviouse problems get some minor buffs/tweaks to make them evenly viable with the rest of the cast.

oh and ofc get rid of any kind of (block)infinites out there

 

[Mr. Mileena]

I pointed this out last year, I like how the spin pushback and low hat was nerfed solely because of Mileena yet she still can't do anything about them even AFTER the nerfs. Don't mind me though, I'm just a Scorpion D3~X-ray masher that doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.

All joking aside, good post. Makes you wonder how/where those nerfs would've been distributed if the community was patient enough to hold out for frame data.

What do you mean?
Mileena punishes spin with 4 roll. And before, roll punished it just fine.
She can punish low hat with roll right on the frame or she can start 4,2 pressure.

 

[cyke_out]

I complain about domesday because I have a right too. I PRACTICE LIKE SHIT ON BLOCKING HIS OVERHEAD LOW CORNER TRAP and online I get demolished. All my hard work and practice down the fucking drain.

Then the problem is not with the game, but with the online. and Online is never a good reason to change the way a game works off-line.

 

[STRYKIE]

What do you mean?
Mileena punishes spin with 4 roll. And before, roll punished it just fine.
She can punish low hat with roll right on the frame or she can start 4,2 pressure.

I know, I worded it wrong, but you get the idea.

 

[DreadzTsung]

Then the problem is not with the game, but with the online. and Online is never a good reason to change the way a game works off-line.

But alot of the people that play online. Don't play offline.

 

[Funkpanda]

The threads by people - complaining about people complaining are becoming just as annoying

 

[Solid]

When trying to convince people to agree with your statement, don't include ad hominem. It discredits your commentary though means of logical fallacy.

That aside, the game is new sure, but even still the call for controlled buffing/nerfing isn't as bad as everyone demonizes it to be. Certain characters can be buffed/nerfed to small degrees to streamline gameplay and help growth overall. Take a game like League of Legends, where characters get subtle tweaks every month or so. Some characters get a nerf and it is a touch too severe, so they notch it back up with a buff. Eventually, the characters become mostly balanced out in their respective roles, and the game as a whole grows with it.


People like you make the mistake of absolutes. You play the scenario as though once a character is nerfed they will become unviable instantly, and will never become viable again. Though this has happened in some circumstances, there's an equal number of times where the opposite is true and the nerfs were either temporary or miniscule overall. Some characters in this game, currently, do need buffs. Bane is an obvious contender for buffs due to how heavy his venom debuff is, his low damage, and his overall lack of ability to get in on the opponent. Its not a matter of how the character is played later on, its a matter of what the character clearly lacks.

This is not to say that we want no debuffs on venom, however. Most of the Bane community are calling for a collection of small changes that tweak the gameplay for him into a more reasonable area. Things such as the damage taken being reduced, more armor/damage on level 2 venom, and even his air grab having some benefit from venom are just a couple of aspects and none of them require huge buffs or nerfs to happen.

Knee-jerk buff/nerfs en masse are bad, yes. Controlled buffs/nerfs are not, however. Calling for people to abandon trying to balance out a game in its early stages to help it survive later down the line is almost insulting coming from our own community. Practice moderation, and yes learn your characters enough to know their options and your opponents options, but don't shut out the idea of rebalancing small aspects for the sake of avoiding the past large errors. This is a time to learn and grow, not to fear.

Dude I'm not against buffing characters that lack options. I'm not against balancing a game. Never said Iwas. I go through all character forums and read their stuff. Some of the stuff I agree with while some of it I don't. Some people just cry for things that are truly not needed. The mk thing was just an example. That game is f'ed up. A lot of people say now "well it's our game, we have adapted we play it the way it is". Most of them are hypocrites because they know it's probably not getting patched anymore. But if it would get a new balance patch the same people would rejoice and demand the stupid stuff be fixed. I see many great players from TYM that want their characters to be buffed because their character is so weak in their opinion meanwhile i see those same players destroying other top players in tournaments with their so-called weak charachters. LSBSH I know balancing a game is good, but the constant crying for ridiculous things is just dumb. You don't believe me just look at threads and see for yourself how many people seriously demand ridiculous stuff. One thing I'm glad of is that NRS has gotten wiser. Even in an interview Hector said they are not going to nerf like crazy, look what happened to Kung Lao. All in all I will be doing my part and just learn and play this game.

 

[cyke_out]

But alot of the people that play online. Don't play offline.

So what? Changing anything to make it easier to deal with online, would make it infinately easier to deal with off-line. the change would basically ruin the move to the point of being useless to use off-line.

Off-line is the real game, it is what it was tested and made for. The frames and the entire game structure is based on off-line play. It is why tournament are done off-line, to recreate the 100% perfect connection.

On-line is a nice little diversion, but not the real game.

the answer isn't to completely ruin the off-line game, so online is better. The answer is to make online better to be a more accurate representation of off-line.

 

[Doombawkz]

Dude I'm not against buffing characters that lack options. I'm not against balancing a game. Never said Iwas. I go through all character forums and read their stuff. Some of the stuff I agree with while some of it I don't. Some people just cry for things that are truly not needed.

I never said you were against buffing characters, in fact I never said you were against buffing at all. However, even now you show an absolution mentality about things. Instead of these long rants, simply say "If you are going to ask for things, ask for a few small things instead of one big thing, and ask it of your own character instead of the characters of others."

It translates the same points coming across and saves you a lot of typing.

 

[TPH GUNSHOT]

So what? Changing anything to make it easier to deal with online, would make it infinately easier to deal with off-line. the change would basically ruin the move to the point of being useless to use off-line.

Off-line is the real game, it is what it was tested and made for. The frames and the entire game structure is based on off-line play. It is why tournament are done off-line, to recreate the 100% perfect connection.

On-line is a nice little diversion, but not the real game.

the answer isn't to completely ruin the off-line game, so online is better. The answer is to make online better to be a more accurate representation of off-line.

Now if you can explain this to everyone...

 

[DreadzTsung]

So what? Changing anything to make it easier to deal with online, would make it infinately easier to deal with off-line. the change would basically ruin the move to the point of being useless to use off-line.

Off-line is the real game, it is what it was tested and made for. The frames and the entire game structure is based on off-line play. It is why tournament are done off-line, to recreate the 100% perfect connection.

On-line is a nice little diversion, but not the real game.

the answer isn't to completely ruin the off-line game, so online is better. The answer is to make online better to be a more accurate representation of off-line.

So in other words I'm just gonna have to remain free to Doomsday because learning the MU has no effect it seems. And I main Harley.