Whats the point of 3/4 of the "wake up attacks" and "AAs" in the game?

[RapZiLLa54]

With wake ups I'm not talking about the window to them, its strict but not impossible and with practice its becomes 2nd nature.

My problem is why is almost every special move a "wake up" but yet 3/4s of them are stuffed by any attack. Especially with potential "AA" wake ups, I'm not sure if wake up invincibility is random or doesn't exist for some moves but what exactly is the point?

Why even make Batmans sky grapple, grapple, up or regular batarang an option as a wakeup attack when they will get stuffed by pokes, specials, jump ins, whatever.

Catwoman has catclaws, dash and up whiff as wake ups but again, stuffed by any attack on wake up. The list goes on and on.

Seems like any anti air wake up is useless because the jump in will stuff it regardless. D2s universally suck unless you're WW, GL, Supes, Grundy, or of course Aquaman.

The battle of who mashes jumping 1 or 2 first is becoming boring as hell or the 1/4 of the cast dominating the other 3/4 of the cast because they actually have straight up AA that makes you fear leaving your feet and can actually control space.

The whole YOLO > making reads is becoming a real turn off.

 

[SLy]

Why even make Batmans sky grapple, grapple, up or regular batarang an option as a wakeup attack when they will get stuffed by pokes, specials, jump ins, whatever..

I don't think Wakeup attacks are only meant for when you are getting pressured.

 

[TheSpore]

Just gbreathe and take 5 minutes alone and all will resolve itself!!!

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Wake ups don't all have the same amount of invincibility frames.

 

[Zyphox]

i agree, at the very least give all the characters with shitty anti airs prioty over jumpins, the only way your going to anti air with the flash is an air to air, and some characters can't get up for certain set ups like sinerfstro, lobo, batman ect in the future i feel these characters will struggle with sets up that take advantage of the situation, i already have a set up with lobo that sinestro can't escape unless i miss time my command grab, the meta game will evolve and if you can't wake up you will die in your own nightmare.

 

[Briggs8417]

Just because specials get input as wakeups don't mean they have invincibility. That's pretty much it.

 

[TheSpore]

I think the best bet is to make a habit of rolling out when you fall, but from I gathered in this game is though every move is wake up material it doesn't mean they are meant for it. I don't like saying things like this, but your gonna have to explore each attack you can wake up with and find whcih ones can do what.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

I don't think Wakeup attacks are only for when you are getting pressured.

Thats exactly what wake up attacks in fighting games are for considering they are only able to be done when knocked down which implies pressure is coming. So you're going to throw out specials moves on whiff from a distance to do what exactly? Counter zone? You'll just end up taking damage with your projectile mostly and your opponent will recover in time to block your projectile.

 

[RexyWrecks]

With wake ups I'm not talking about the window to them, its strict but not impossible and with practice its becomes 2nd nature.

My problem is why is almost every special move a "wake up" but yet 3/4s of them are stuffed by any attack. Especially with potential "AA" wake ups, I'm not sure if wake up invincibility is random or doesn't exist for some moves but what exactly is the point?

Why even make Batmans sky grapple, grapple, up or regular batarang an option as a wakeup attack when they will get stuffed by pokes, specials, jump ins, whatever.

Catwoman has catclaws, dash and up whiff as wake ups but again, stuffed by any attack on wake up. The list goes on and on.

Seems like any anti air wake up is useless because the jump in will stuff it regardless. D2s universally suck unless you're WW, GL, Supes, Grundy, or of course Aquaman.

The battle of who mashes jumping 1 or 2 first is becoming boring as hell or the 1/4 of the cast dominating the other 3/4 of the cast because they actually have straight up AA that makes you fear leaving your feet and can actually control space.

The whole YOLO > making reads is becoming a real turn off.

Preach my brother, Preach.

 

[RapZiLLa54]

I think the best bet is to make a habit of rolling out when you fall, but from I gathered in this game is though every move is wake up material it doesn't mean they are meant for it. I don't like saying things like this, but your gonna have to explore each attack you can wake up with and find whcih ones can do what.

Of course but most high level players will use untechable knockdowns so you won't get many chances to "roll away". You can try back dashing but again at a high level your options will be limited because they will typically follow up with an attack that keeps stuffs all options since there are so limited options available.

 

[Rude]

Lately, when people try jumping at me, I dash forward and try to punish. Still a work in progress. Even if you get nothing off of it, dashing forward can at least return the situation to neutral. Pig Of The Hut Dash forward vs. cross-ups still good?

 

[SLy]

Thats exactly what wake up attacks in fighting games are for considering they are only able to be done when knocked down which implies pressure is coming. So you're going to throw out specials moves on whiff from a distance to do what exactly? Counter zone? You'll just end up taking damage with your projectile mostly and your opponent will recover in time to block your projectile.

That's true but then Oki pressure would lose its purpose if wakeup attacks were that invincible.It wouldn't make sense to have only specific invincible attacks anyway.. Let every special get a fair shot.. If its useless then its useless.. But in time a lot of wakeup specials will probably be used under conditioned situations.. Who knows..

Or you can just block.

 

[TheSpore]

Lately, when people try jumping at me, I dash forward and try to punish. Still a work in progress. Even if you get nothing off of it, dashing forward can at least return the situation to neutral. Pig Of The Hut Dash forward vs. cross-ups still good?

One of the benifits of HQ's slide and CW's dash

 

[Rude]

Batman's dash seems good for this, too, as it is one of the longer dashes in the game.

 

[cyke_out]

No projectiles have invincibilty frames, this is a universal mechanic shared amongst all the cast. the moves that do have invincible frames on wake-ups, usually only have it for 6-8 frames, most moves last longer than that.

So know what moves of your character gives you the most active frames of invunerablity is the first step to figuring out wake-ups.

 

[TheSpore]

Batman's dash seems good for this, too, as it is one of the longer dashes in the game.

true but KF has to have one of the best slide attacks in the game and can get you some distance

 

[RapZiLLa54]

Just because specials get input as wakeups don't mean they have invincibility. That's pretty much it.

Exactly, so whats the point of making them a wake up attack is my actual question. The rule of thumb with this game is 10frames or less. If you're move doesn't meet that requirement its useless.

Why not give the AA moves some invincibility so you can actually stop a jump in you know thats coming instead of having no options unless your part of the 1/4 cast that doesn't give a fuck lol.

I have no problem having to work for wins as a fellow reptile player you know what I mean but it feels like this game was made INTENTIONALLY for casual players by essentially eliminating making reads.

I remember when the first footage came out from that foreign tournament and everyone was like "LOL look at how much these guys are jumping, they suck" when in reality most characters don't have answers for it.

 

[Rude]

true but KF has to have one of the best slide attacks in the game and can get you some distance

This is very true. The only other option for air-to-air seems to be J1 or J2, depending on the character. Sometimes a J1 will beat a J3 and so forth. Also, if someone is jumping at you, I've been experimenting with neutral 2. Mixed results so far.

 

[ShadowBeatz]

The whole YOLO > making reads is becoming a real turn off.

Agree 100%

 

[TheSpore]

Rude:
I use HQ, GA, and CW and thus far when one doing a JI I use a D! attack and typically that works, just the old D4 Mileena approach I use to use.

 

[Briggs8417]

Exactly, so whats the point of making them a wake up attack is my actual question. The rule of thumb with this game is 10frames or less. If you're move doesn't meet that requirement its useless.

Why not give the AA moves some invincibility so you can actually stop a jump in you know thats coming instead of having no options unless your part of the 1/4 cast that doesn't give a fuck lol.

I have no problem having to work for wins as a fellow reptile player you know what I mean but it feels like this game was made INTENTIONALLY for casual players by essentially eliminating making reads.

I remember when the first footage came out from that foreign tournament and everyone was like "LOL look at how much these guys are jumping, they suck" when in reality most characters don't have answers for it.

I don't understand the reasoning behind calling every move that you input that way as a wake up when clearly not all of them are true wake ups, but I'm pretty sure every character has at least one that is invincible. (Don't quote me on that though) Idk about other characters but Black Adam's Cage with stop jump ins/crossups on wake up and has invincibility. You just kind of have to toy around really to see what works and what doesn't.

 

[GodsLonelyman]

Agreed. Anti airs in this game are pretty bad and jump ins have huge priority. The wakeup system becomes even more problematic with certain characters after you get knocked down in an untechable knockdown where you cant roll and backdash. Take someone like doomsday for example, when he gets you in an untechable knockdown, if your character doesn't have good wakeup options you're forced into a 50/50 guessing game thats braindead as fuck. If you guess wrong the situation resets itself and before you know it, your entire life bar is nearly gone and you're stuck in the corner. I think a good start from NRS would be to release a list of which wakeup attacks are invincible and which ones are not, and the ones that are, how many frames of invincibility do they have. Because it is known that it is not a universal 8 frames. Making pushblock only require 1 bar of meter as opposed to 2 would be good too.

 

[SLy]

Why not give the AA moves some invincibility so you can actually stop a jump in you know thats coming instead of having no options unless

Now this I agree with.. But honestly if everyone was to receive an Anti air that can easily knock someone out the air then it will become a really Footsie and spacing intensive game because no one would jump. That's a big deal for a lot of characters that heavily rely on good jump ins to get stuff going.

 

[cyke_out]

Making pushblock only require 1 bar of meter as opposed to 2 would be good too.

Push block is only one bar of meter.

the only thing that takes two bars is MBC'ing out of a string.

 

[Skkra]

I've been blocking then using pushblock to get out of pressure on my wakeup.