Tech "Can we order Chinese?" a Nightwing frame trap compendium

[AK partyeagle]

Alright , as we all know Dick has some amazing frames to work with and he can really bring the pain.
since he has so many ways to punish the other player pushing a button I believe we should compile a list of setups and strings that can not be interrupted .

On block (6f or slower ) :


Escrima :
d1 d1,2
d1,2 d1
334db3
334bf3
u3 b2
u3 f213
u3 b1 strings
u3 334db3
d1/d1,2 f123 (sometimes gets beat out or trades with d1)
1,1,2 b2
b1,1,2 112
112 334db3

Staff:
d1 d1
1 d1
1F1 d1
1f1 db3
d1 db3
1f1 db3MB d3/2
d1 db3MB 1db2MB
d1 db3MB 1db2MB bf3



On hit(6f or slower): To be continued



Frame traps with frame gaps (for characters without a 6f move) : to be continued



free free to post more and ill update the thread when i can

 

[NightwingDayZero]

The most important thread in the Nightwing sub-forum. Good stuff brother

 

[dribirut]

For every character most strings are plus on hit what is more important is on block

 

[AK partyeagle]

yea on thats why i did the on block ones first, and just so everyone knows, i tested each of these by hand. since the frame data is derpy. gonna add more for things like f3 and b3 in both stances later when i get the chance

 

[KombatNerd]

(Bump)..

This will be added to the sig after school.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

There was a stream on Twitch last night featuring a very good Grundy vs a very good Nightwing player.

He brought to my attention that 112 is +21 on block.

I don't know if I was testing the frame trap correctly. I set the CPU to jump and block always. I found that following 112 with U3 caught the CPU just as it left the floor. I also worked in 112 with B13 to catch my opponent low, but that would be the end of the string.

I really think frame traps are going to be Nightwing's key to opening people up and minimizing their meter usage options by forcing them to burn meter on push block.

 

[AssassiN]

There was a stream on Twitch last night featuring a very good Grundy vs a very good Nightwing player.

He brought to my attention that 112 is +21 on block.

I don't know if I was testing the frame trap correctly. I set the CPU to jump and block always. I found that following 112 with U3 caught the CPU just as it left the floor. I also worked in 112 with B13 to catch my opponent low, but that would be the end of the string.

I really think frame traps are going to be Nightwing's key to opening people up and minimizing their meter usage options by forcing them to burn meter on push block.

I think pretty much everyone who picked up Nightwing knew that from day 1 .

But are you sure it's +21? Saids it's +12 in the frame data and it's not a multi-hit, so it should be correct.

 

[AK partyeagle]

I think pretty much everyone who picked up Nightwing knew that from day 1 .

But are you sure it's +21? Saids it's +12 in the frame data and it's not a multi-hit, so it should be correct.

12 is 21 backwards. Guamo got you with that typo mixup

 

[alexgators1]

There was a stream on Twitch last night featuring a very good Grundy vs a very good Nightwing player.

He brought to my attention that 112 is +21 on block.

I don't know if I was testing the frame trap correctly. I set the CPU to jump and block always. I found that following 112 with U3 caught the CPU just as it left the floor. I also worked in 112 with B13 to catch my opponent low, but that would be the end of the string.

I really think frame traps are going to be Nightwing's key to opening people up and minimizing their meter usage options by forcing them to burn meter on push block.

Do you have a link to this stream? I'd like to go to the archives and check it out.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Is that really one of his quotes?

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Do you have a link to this stream? I'd like to go to the archives and check it out.

I was looking for it all morning. Will keep you updated.

However. 112 against an opponent in the corner can keep them locked down and they must push block, to my limited understanding.

 

[AssassiN]

I was looking for it all morning. Will keep you updated.

However. 112 against an opponent in the corner can keep them locked down and they must push block, to my limited understanding.

The first 1 hits high, they avoid it by holding down and mashing 1.

 

[AK partyeagle]

The first 1 hits high, they avoid it by holding down and mashing 1.

the problem with escrima in general i have found. 9/10 times you have frame adv you only have enough to do a high, which loses to d1, and everything slower also loses to d1. escrima is a d1 fest for the opponent usually

Is that really one of his quotes?

yes, he says it to bruce during wager. its technically "wanna order chinese later? " but thats just semantics

 

[AssassiN]

the problem with escrima in general i have found. 9/10 times you have frame adv you only have enough to do a high, which loses to d1, and everything slower also loses to d1. escrima is a d1 fest for the opponent usually

It's a D1 fest for Nightwing himself in Escrima stance, so I'm still kind of searching the correct use of frametraps in his Escrima stance.
I feel like his Escrima stance can be more important than his Staff against certain MU's even when he is rushing down.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

It's a D1 fest for Nightwing himself in Escrima stance, so I'm still kind of searching the correct use of frametraps in his Escrima stance.
I feel like his Escrima stance can be more important than his Staff against certain MU's even when he is rushing down.

Escrima's neutral j3 neutered all jump in attempts by a Green Arrow I played last night. Staff jb2 was getting blown up by his long reaching jump ins.

 

[AK partyeagle]

yea d1 is pretty good in escrima , but its got its problems. first off, its 9 frames... which is ass as far as d1's are concerned. and unfortunately on block your best option is to just d1 again. which by then pushes the too far to really use the frame advantage anymore. f123 is okay after a blocked d1 but if they opponent has a 6f d1 he gets beat out. kinda makes up close pressuring with escrima frustrating in certain matchups.

and hell yes, neutral jump 3 is the new newjersey fierce lol but as far as staff vs greeen arrow i was always able to beat GA jump ins with ji2 or a well timed flying grayson

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

partyeagle
I haven't had time to test it with a live person, but I know the AI couldn't jump out.

I think that: Escrima stance 1, 1, 2 cancel into Staff stance- MB staff spin is uninterruptible, and of course, leads to more frame traps. The AI couldn't jump out.

 

[AssassiN]

Escrima's neutral j3 neutered all jump in attempts by a Green Arrow I played last night. Staff jb2 was getting blown up by his long reaching jump ins.

I've fought against Green Arrow, neutral j3 always traded with me when I anticipated a jump.
With staff I could always AA him with j2, also it might be better to play with staff against Green Arrow. GA got no range unless he jumps in.

 

[renoface]

As far as escrima frame trapping goes, I've been using db2 MB to try to keep pressure going. +11 afaik, low (which is awesome since usually there's no real reason to duck on Dick) and ends up comboing anyway off things like f213 (in case you somehow missed the hc). Although I don't hear a lot about it, so maybe I'm missing something?

 

[AK partyeagle]

partyeagle
I haven't had time to test it with a live person, but I know the AI couldn't jump out.

I think that: Escrima stance 1, 1, 2 cancel into Staff stance- MB staff spin is uninterruptible, and of course, leads to more frame traps. The AI couldn't jump out.

It is.

As far as escrima frame trapping goes, I've been using db2 MB to try to keep pressure going. +11 afaik, low (which is awesome since usually there's no real reason to duck on Dick) and ends up comboing anyway off things like f213 (in case you somehow missed the hc). Although I don't hear a lot about it, so maybe I'm missing something?

Its definitely plus on block but here is the thing. Escrima db2 is prolly his second worse special besides db1. Its sper slow, meaning it can prolly be interupted. Even after a f213 on block. And any place you have it you could always do stance change into db2mb or db3mb which are both better options. Think about it. Staff db2 mb is double low plus 18 on block and on hit leads to a combo. Staff db3mb does 8% chip , builds half a bar on block, and is plus 18 on block as well. While escrima db2 is a low fireball that does about 8ish % damage iirc (that's as much as staff spin on block)

 

[renoface]

Very valid points, but the whole reason I focused on escrima db2 in the first place was to try to find a solution for those who wanted to stay in and pressure with escrima for whatever reason. Although I suppose there's no reason you couldn't find your way back into escrima after applying staff pressure as well (other than fear of error and then being stuck in staff). I'll have to test if things like f213 db2 or 33 db2 are interruptible though, I suppose it's worth knowing.

 

[Chuckychuck]

What are the strings and staggered strings that allow him to freely switch from escrima to staff and back?

 

[AK partyeagle]

What are the strings and staggered strings that allow him to freely switch from escrima to staff and back?

all of them, you just have to quickly enough cancel into a fast special, like staff spin, or escrima fury( which is unsafe but you can also flip kick iirc) almost, if not all of them cannot be blatantly canceled into staff or ecrima without canceling into a special. the only things i know off the top of my head are escrima 33 , escrima 112 , and after doing staffspin if you hit 4 quickly you can go into escrima for free

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I'm going to start using U3 a lot more.

Here's what I've found.

U3 is +10 on block and will put the opponent in a hard knockdown state

If U3 doesn't connect - free pressure. You're +10 do what you want. If U3 does connect (mid screen) you don't even have to dash in. You can time your opponents wakeup and hit them with the far reaching F3 which is +15. Connects? ji2 and combo for ~30% If it doesn't, you're +15. Again, do what you want.

 

[Chuckychuck]

all of them, you just have to quickly enough cancel into a fast special, like staff spin, or escrima fury( which is unsafe but you can also flip kick iirc) almost, if not all of them cannot be blatantly canceled into staff or ecrima without canceling into a special. the only things i know off the top of my head are escrima 33 , escrima 112 , and after doing staffspin if you hit 4 quickly you can go into escrima for free

So a cancel into just the staff stance is unsafe but you can cancel into a special and be at the negative frames of the special?

So for instance 112 stance is unsafe but 112 stance ex staff spin is +adv on block?