Concerns about frame data

[insignis]

Is it me or there are so many moves with plus on block?

For instance we have Raven with her 223 which can be spammed in block and characters like Ares can do nothing (the fastest 1 is too slow and d1 is too short).
Something familiar with Doomsday with his 33 which can't be spammed because of the slow start-up but his d1 will hit you if you try to do anything.

both moves seem like they can be interrapted before last hit but they can't.

So is it wrong or I don't understand something?

 

[McNasty]

1.pushblock
2.back dash invincibility
3.respect your opponents options

 

[insignis]

1.pushblock
2.back dash invincibility
3.respect your opponents options

you're in the corner so backdash won't help. so you have to use pushblock to escape ? sounds weird :/

 

[kronspik]

Backdash works in the corner vs the 3 in Raven's 223. I just tested it.

 

[kronspik]

Also after 223 it seems like the pushback is too large for the next 2 to be in range unless she walks forward slightly? This would negate the frame trap.

 

[AssassiN]

People seem to forget that there are holes in strings which can be backdashed and punished mostly, just put your AI on reversal and do the block string. See if it pops up and where.

I wonder how many people realize you can backdash Green Lantern's B1 2/3...

 

[kronspik]

You can't punish the 223 if you backdash out of the 3, but you may reduce the advantage.

 

[insignis]

Backdash works in the corner vs the 3 in Raven's 223. I just tested it.

well, I didn't know it's possible to backdash in strings. Now everything on it's place, thanks

 

[zaf]

You can punish raven, 22-here-3

 

[insignis]

You can punish raven, 22-here-3

did you try it? I fail to hit her even with d1 between 2 and 3. only backdash seems working

 

[zaf]

did you try it? I fail to hit her even with d1 between 2 and 3. only backdash seems working

Well i know there is a gap there because jer and i were the ones to make all the parry guides. As for a d1 interrupt instead of a parry, i would not know. The game has frame data, but not all of the frame data. Without cancel advantage i would not be able to find the true gap of frames.

As for the topic, its very common for characters to be + on strings/ normals. Thats how fighters have always been.

EDIT: Take this for example, ravens 223 is +6. So what this basically does is give her a bit more room and frames to continue pressure rather then stop possibly.

She will not need to poke after 223, in hopes of a hit to follow up with another block string. Raven can essentially do any of her "slower" moves after a 223. A move that is 15 frames, actually becomes 9 Frames.

So if you know her block strings, you know that after a 223, if she does a 15 frames move its 9 frames. You can still poke out her of her next blockstring after the 223 if you use a d1 move ( which is generally 6-7 frames). However if raven does her d1 after a 223, and you still go to d1 after the 223, she will hit you first and she can full combo link a singularity from that d1.

It all comes down to reading your opponent. Frames do not necessarily matter in reading your opponent, unless you do not know the frames of their character or do not understand frame data.

 

[Justice]

We also know that the frame data calculator is inaccurate on multi-hit moves.

 

[Jer]

We also know that the frame data calculator is inaccurate on multi-hit moves.

Neither of the moves he mentioned are affected by this

 

[Euphoric]

Is it me or there are so many moves with plus on block?

For instance we have Raven with her 223 which can be spammed in block and characters like Ares can do nothing (the fastest 1 is too slow and d1 is too short).
Something familiar with Doomsday with his 33 which can't be spammed because of the slow start-up but his d1 will hit you if you try to do anything.

both moves seem like they can be interrapted before last hit but they can't.

So is it wrong or I don't understand something?

That's like her only move that's pretty + on block aside from F13, F1, and B2...which are +3...

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

No where online has an updated spreadsheet for the frame data. If I get time I will for HG. I know it's already in game but I want to view online instead of firing up the PS3 everytime.

 

[Jimmypotato]

No where online has an updated spreadsheet for the frame data. If I get time I will for HG. I know it's already in game but I want to view online instead of firing up the PS3 everytime.

The TYM wiki needs to be updated, I'm not sure who set it up, it's still day one frame data though,