Strategy Combining strings with pushback and lunging normals to bait pokes for wiff punishes

[Illmatix]

Something i've been utilizing for quite some time, and seems highly effective and i have been wanting to discover more opportunities to use it more. The goal here is to use pushback and/or frame advantage to condition the opponent to poke after a string with pushback and wiff punish the poke at another time. watch out for kitanas d1 as some of these settups require a dash back against her due to her phenomenal range. try using strings that are neutral or plus for maximum effectiveness.


somethings i use are as follows:
121, 121
after 121 d1's and d3's wiff if you dont move forward
121 is a lunging normal that can be easily poked, so by doing 121 121 you condition your opponent to poke, only the next time around you do lift after 121 and if they poke it gets blown up
once they fear this mixup you can do a slower lunging normal like f2 for frame advantage.
also with lift being 13 frames you still have a chance to beat their 12f d4 if they mistime it .

F4 on hit, f2

good opportunity to bait pokes

sweep, lift/d4 lift

the push back of sweep / d4 is really good too, if they expect lift after sweep you can d4 them for additional pushback and follow with lift

do any of you guys use similar setups? if so post them so i can learn a thing or two plz!!

 

[zaf]

Its good that you made this thread. Although this is what I see a lot of ermacs doing as well as myself, there really has never been a thread to discuss this. It has been spoken about in several threads, but never really all condensed. I want to add a topic for this into the complete ermac guide ( im finishing the mus this week with the others, i dont want it incomplete before injustice), so made you would like to do the write upÉ

I do use this, and i do see other ermacs like Metzos, Seven, Big D using this tactic.

121 doesn't provide the most knockback but using it like you said is a very good set up.
I like to use b114. B1 is good for mixups on its own but when b114 is all blocked it provides a good amount of knokcback.
You can use this to set up counter pokes, like 121. If your opponent likes to block because of tkp or tks, you can go for further block strings. If they like to poke, iafb is also great for blowing up pokes and some specials, . It also beats jump ins. Same applies to F2 with the pushback set ups, except it is +4 so you can actually beat out d4s and other strings with lift. Its risky, but not doing it is kind of how these set ups work. Your opponent doesn't want to get hit by that risky lift after a f2, so you can usually dash in and start pressuring. Thats how a lot of his game works up close in general, just conditioning your opponent and doing something else. Sweep is great its also +2. So in general pushback set ups work off of 121, b114, f2, iafb(has very nice pushback) sweep, even uppercut has pushback and is +2. Against characters with armor, I generally use these set ups to bait armor.

 

[Seven]

I like to use 121, but I don't like to bait the poke and punish with lift, it's too risky. I do 121, after a couple times, they start to poke. And when they poke after 121, I like to jump over them for some more pressure.

 

[zaf]

I like to use 121, but I don't like to bait the poke and punish with lift, it's too risky. I do 121, after a couple times, they start to poke. And when they poke after 121, I like to jump over them for some more pressure.

You will do 312 lift but not 121 lift? Why not, just curious

 

[Axel_Redd]

You will do 312 lift but not 121 lift? Why not, just curious

lol, pure and simple, if u want to win with ermac, u NEED to use conditioning and take those kinds of risks, otherwise u'll never get anywhere.

 

[Seven]

You will do 312 lift but not 121 lift? Why not, just curious

Honestly I do that a lot less now, when I first did that it was kind of new and a lot of people fell for it. But now people see it enough and have started to expect it.

But for some reason I feel like people expect you to do lift after 121, also because it feels like you have advantage after 121, people tend to respect it more. I just have a bad feeling about it.

 

[zaf]

Axel_Redd
No i use 312 lift, i just dont use 121 lift. I just dont like it for some reason. Since seven is the same way i was just asking why

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

I can only account for online play as I dot have a offline scene, but I primarily use b112 to set up my pressure and go in for the lift. Most average players not familiar with Ermacs move set will bait after the b11 and that allows me to get in with the 4 lift.

Friends I practice with online have caught onto that, so I mix it up with just wiff b11 lift or just do b11 lift and then mix it up with 121 or 321. B114 just seems to work for me. But that is online so I can't account for offline.

Also, if I see they are blocking high I try and do a U4 to break them down. Usually they will then "go in for the kill on wake up". I will either block them into lift, do an air blast, or D4 and then try to escape to my mid-zone game.

This thread is a wealth of knowledge. Thanks everyone.

 

[Seven]

I can only account for online play as I dot have a offline scene, but I primarily use b112 to set up my pressure and go in for the lift. Most average players not familiar with Ermacs move set will bait after the b11 and that allows me to get in with the 4 lift.

Friends I practice with online have caught onto that, so I mix it up with just wiff b11 lift or just do b11 lift and then mix it up with 121 or 321. B114 just seems to work for me. But that is online so I can't account for offline.

Also, if I see they are blocking high I try and do a U4 to break them down. Usually they will then "go in for the kill on wake up". I will either block them into lift, do an air blast, or D4 and then try to escape to my mid-zone game.

This thread is a wealth of knowledge. Thanks everyone.

Instead of doing U4, throw them

 

[Seven]

Axel_Redd
No i use 312 lift, i just dont use 121 lift. I just dont like it for some reason. Since seven is the same way i was just asking why

Get online, I'm bored, everyone on there is free.

 

[zaf]

Will u be on in like an hour?

 

[zaf]

Ermac's throw range is retarded

 

[Illmatix]

btw i meant 121 lift without a 2 in 1 just so you guys know that.
but yeah 312 lift is very necessary some times.

thank you zaf for the honor of being added to the guide

and yes baiting armor with f4 settups is pretty good especially against kabal

 

[zaf]

yea i meant 121 without a link. one after the other. f4 is really good for baiting a lot of armor specials.

 

[Axel_Redd]

how do u bait armor with f4??

 

[Big D]

121 is amazing.

 

[Illmatix]

how do u bait armor with f4??

i end a combo with f4 and throw, so the next time you see f4 you try to armor out and i just block.

 

[Axel_Redd]

i end a combo with f4 and throw, so the next time you see f4 you try to armor out and i just block.

that can still fuck u over with characters like rain or kabal or kratos since they can cancel their armored attacks

 

[Illmatix]

that can still fuck u over with characters like rain or kabal or kratos since they can cancel their armored attacks

you still paid a bar to do what start pressure? at least it's a guess on your part right? or you can do a crossover and avoid pressure i suppose.

if your trying to say it's still in kabal's favor i think we all agree with you homie.

 

[Axel_Redd]

you still paid a bar to do what start pressure? at least it's a guess on your part right? or you can do a crossover and avoid pressure i suppose.

if your trying to say it's still in kabal's favor i think we all agree with you homie.

no, lol, theres no point in stating the obvious, im just sayin its not as much of a mindgame as u think vs those characters.

 

[Illmatix]

no, lol, theres no point in stating the obvious, im just sayin its not as much of a mindgame as u think vs those characters.

how so? by blocking after f4 you have to cancel armor than i get a crossover opportunity.

 

[Axel_Redd]

how so? by blocking after f4 you have to cancel armor than i get a crossover opportunity.

i guess, but it still limits what u can do.

 

[Illmatix]

i guess, but it still limits what u can do.

ok but vs sonya and jax it skoolz
and making someone wiff armor is still painful

 

[Axel_Redd]

if only ermac had better zoning tools i may have actually considered playing him x-x. Oh well o3o *picks kenshi an Bf2's like a bawz*

 

[zaf]

i guess, but it still limits what u can do.

It does limit what you can do. We are agreeing with that but we made you use meter. Now if we get a read u usually wont have meter to break, or we can get out of pressure and back off to mid range again. In mus like kabal and skarlet and kenshi, your goal is to rid them of meter

if only ermac had better zoning tools i may have actually considered playing him x-x. Oh well o3o *picks kenshi an Bf2's like a bawz*

push is a great zoning tool. It makes people block and opens up ermacs ground game. Kenshi can abusse shoulder by doing it a lot in mid range with ex. But ermac abuses tkp by abusing your blocking.