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WinterBrawl Thoughts (Shoutouts & Salt)

Relaxedstate

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
First I just want to say. This tournament was run very well, and very timely. Great job 9.95 Phil. You listened to players and tried your best to get things right. I had a great time. Congrats to my teamates xKhaoTikx Revolver for making top8 and good luck today. Congrats astronout Lulzlou for making top 16. Also, good shit BlackBryan for making dat sexy Kano work its way out of pools. Special Shoutouts to FlipinFlava for getting drunk at the bar. And to some random guy for buying me tequila shots.

Now I want to talk about the brackets. #salt
I uneasily voiced my concerns to Phil long before the tournament, regarding how well he knew the players etc... I always thought guys like SwiftTomHanks made the best most balanced brackets. It is too bad a few players had to bad mouth him and accuse him of bullshit. Phil does know the players, but there were some serious oversights that could have been avoided, if Andrew could have had a say. Andrew really knows the players from ALL the scenes, not just PA, NY, and NJ....

Here is what I am saying. 5 of the 8 pools were comatose free. 1 pretty big name, maybe 2, then a bunch of randoms. When I first saw the pools I saw that I was seeded 3rd in my pool, behind Maxter and Bluenine (AlexSmith). My last tournament I got 2nd place in and my last East Coast Major I got 9th. So once again I have no idea how he got seeded higher than me. To make matters worse, right before the tournament started, Phil moves gross into our pool because apparently him and noobe train together sometimes...??? Now, I actually think making these adjustments when allotted is really great flexibility to have. HOWEVER, they added him to my pool like he was just some kind of random ass kid. ME, GROSS and Maxter were all on the same side of the bracket and blueNINE had the whole other bracket to himself. He had to beat Shock to make it to winners final.... WTF LAWL?

I ended up having to play Gross first round and again in losers semis. We had some great sets, he outplayed me and edged out the W both times. He is a great player that I respect deeply. But, if Phil respected him half as much as I do, or me, then Gross never would have been placed where he was, the way he was... I tried to talk with the "Kombat NAzi", and he told me to Quote "Shut it. These are the way the brackets were randomly made, and THEY ARE STAYING THAT WAY, now go away and wait for me to call your matches". I was blown away, what A FUCKING ASSHOLE he was to me for a simple question. And no the brackets were not randomly made that way. You moved Gross in there with no thought to the repercussions... I never even got a chance to play bluenine or MAxter... 100$ spent on the tournament felt really good to spend on that shit!! I call bullshit. And while yes, this was just one of a few oversights in a well run tourney, they affected a few players adversely... and worse they could have been avoided if the TOs listened to players like STH for advice....but I wasn't about to pull a 16bit and hold the tourney up. #Rant over #Where are my EVO points

TL;DR: Pools were still broken. Community players make them better despite accusations... sigh

With that being said Good shit to Gross for making it out of that messed up pool/bracket and good luck today in top8!

Great seeing the gang again, FOREVER KING, @Curbolicious, Blackula, Claude VonStroke (great job making it out of pools!), Goldfish, Shock, jamessmk, CD jr, anyone else I forgot cause I am not in a Relaxedstate right now :X

Edit: Phase 3 is a BOSS. No doubt
 
HGTV Soapboxfan

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
RelaxedState posted a thread earlier, but I want to have one that is only about the positives. i will start.
First of all CURBOLICOUS for blowing me up and going all the way. Great showing.
Second of all Team Yardley HGTV Ermacio HGTV DrFlash44 OZZYGUITAR for not making it out of pools again. We just cannot get it right haha but I always love going for it with you guys.
Kitana Prime (tag?) for a good match on stream.
STB Chongo great to meet you man, sorry things don't go your way but it is awesome to meet you.
SwiftTomHanks nice to see you as always you are one of my favorite people in this whole community.
TheTetraSpirit that baraka is nothing to take lightly, ggs man.
Mikemetroid man what happened? LOL you always make me laugh though, everytime I see ya.
SonicFox5000 thanks for the games before the tournament, I probably looked really free but I was just kind of messing around trying to relax before the tournament, and its always awesome to see you do well.
gross for some awesome casuals, you are a great player.
And all the staff who did an excellent job running this event, tons of fun as always. GGs everybody!!!
 
Smarrgasm

Smarrgasm

What's a Smarrgasm?
Relaxedstate I would be pretty pissed too man cause you had a great shot at making waves in that tournament. Your pool and Peckapowas pools were both stacked compared to the rest of them. Im not gonna rag on anyone about anything especially cause i wasnt there but it seems that no matter what we do something like this will end up happening.
 
Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
I had a kickass time, cannot wait for ECT and SummerJam.

First off, shoutouts to Mikemetroid for being an awesome staff member and having the best Duke Nukem impression I've ever heard in my entire life. Also dat Stryker.

Shoutouts to Goldfish for being really cool, was nice to see you again.

Shoutouts to CURBOLICOUS for keeping his promise to get Sawnik. Also, huge congrats on 1st place, you earned it.

Shoutouts to FOREVER KING for top 8 and having his own name on a shirt. I was gonna say hi to you earlier, but I was afraid of you beating me up.

Shoutouts to @Khaotik for not getting bodied by Baraka this time. TheTetraSpirit where u at? Also 3rd is awesome, congrats :)

Shoutouts to @REO Lulzlou for making top 16 :). It was awesome to talk and play casuals bro. Also that warm up practice scares me ;_;

Shoutouts to @JamesMK for being an awesome mofo and helping me put on my bib. ;_; GGs haha.

Shoutouts to Ultimizer, GGs brah! Just gotta work on that Reptile MU.

Shoutouts to Mike Oxlong (hurrr durrrr) GG's. Awesome Smoke.

Shoutouts to HGTV Soapboxfan for them casuals. Very great Sonya and Cage :).

Shoutouts to HGTV Ermacio for being super hyper. Also, you're welcome for that PokeBall stick cover or whatever you call it lmao. I was disapointed you didn't get to body Chris G ;).

Shoutouts to OZZYGUITAR for being the first person I played casuals with.

Shoutouts to HGTV DrFlash44 for those 5 games. I won 3-2 btw ;). Awesome Quan.

Shoutouts to everyone I talked/played to- Peckapowa crosstalk CptXecution (dude you look hella like John Cena) 9.95 gross SomeCubanGuy rev0lver ShadowBeatz Toxic @anyone else


and finally, Shoutouts to SonicFox5000



You're forever my master ;_;. I'll see you at ECT, and I'll be sure to return the favor. JUST CALL ME THE HOUND DOG BITCH!
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
ok i have tons of shoutouts lol.

1. shoutouts to the online players! FOREVER KING, CURBOLICOUS, SonicFox5000, rev0lver, and I are mainly online players, yet we proved that online players can be just as good, or even better than the offline players. Everyone in top 3 are online players lol.

2. shoutouts to the Florida scene! SomeCubanGuy with that insane Baraka. Thanks for helping me in the MU lol. Noobe has the scariest Cyrax I've ever seen and is hands down the best Cyrax I've played. Kitana Prime avenged us Kitana players by beating AND babying Tetra lol. That was a hype match.

3. shoutouts to PTH! all of us except one made top 16 and 2 of us made top 8. Near crew on the rise, don't sleep on us!

4. shoutouts to everyone who believed in me and kept my head up. I was nervous the entire tournament, especially during top 16, mainly because I had to live up to the hype. People kept my head straight and I thank them for that.

5. shoutouts to the haters as well. Love hearing you guys talk because it's always a pleasure shutting you guys up <3
 
Relaxedstate

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
Pig Of The Hut said:
Ouch
Click to expand...
Yeahhh, it's always tough, but it happens. Just wish I had gotten a chance at Maxter like I thought I would.
Gross definitely outplayed the shit out of me though lol


Claude VonStroke said:
9th baby.
Click to expand...
Dude! I know man! Sometime I don't think you even know how good you are. Very well deserved!

Smarrgasm said:
Relaxedstate I would be pretty pissed too man cause you had a great shot at making waves in that tournament. Your pool and Peckapowas pools were both stacked compared to the rest of them. Im not gonna rag on anyone about anything especially cause i wasnt there but it seems that no matter what we do something like this will end up happening.
Click to expand...
Haha Thanks man. I appreciate it. I let the whole thing psych me out, but it WILL NOT happen again. In the future I will go PL style (no fear about pool seedings).

Plus, all this means is I have to go to more road to EVO events (CEO or UFGT?) to try and get dem points!
 
Insuperable

Insuperable

My mom tells me I'm pretty
I honestly feel like I would have been an excellent candidate to TO/Make brackets. I know where just about everyone is traveling from. Whether it's Smarrgasm from a very lively ATL scene, Blake and Raidenwins from an incredibly small Oklahoma scene, or Jimmypotato from a nonexistent Calgary scene. I know just about everyone from the online clan scene and have become close friends with many members of various clans. I know the offline groups that don't always train together, but are connected like PTH, which has members from all over (Rev0lver, members of the MAK scene like Aquaman, Astronout, Khaotik, Lulzlou, Relaxedstate, etc, and Showtime), and Team Yardley from PA. Even with all of this college stuff I need to do, I'm able to keep up with the scene :p

We should all listen to Rolando and organize the brackets based on where people originate from. "Dominicans shouldn't be in the same bracket." (I guess that means to prepare yourselves for VXG brackets huehuehue).
 
SonicFox5000

SonicFox5000

The Best.
Shoutouts to everyone that came out! Vggs!
Shouts To:
STB Chongo - I told you that I would be trolling you back. You just wait~
xKhaoTikx - Always hype matches between you and I. I told you not to go sonya against me foo lol <3
@Nooby - Godlike Cyrax man. Those MM were fun!
gross - Possibly the best sektor. You played extremely well in casualls, and our MM was hype as well!
CURBOLICOUS - Vggs for exposing my free ass mileena </3. Godlike kabal man, until ECT5!
Kitana Prime Those were fun casuals! Very nice Kitana!
EGP_TYRANT - I had so much fun playing you lol. Trolling back and forth + Test your luck? Mannn lol.
SomeCubanGuy - Godlike Baraka man. Had me on my feet. Very good games yo, keep repping that barak community <3
CD jr For always keeping me hype in not only this, but the other games I played as well.
Maxter - Those casuals we played were also fun! Nice Cyblax. Had godlike reads against my Kabal and It always made me panic~
Vggs everyone! If I didnt give you a shoutout, just PM yo, Ill fix that~ Im a little tired right now </3
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
This tournament was awesome. Thank you to everyone who gave me support and was pulling for me to do well. I love you guys. It feels incredible to finally get a major top 8 placement after over a year of traveling around the country for this game, even if I am a fraud.

So,

Shoutouts to the guys in charge, 9.95 and his brother for running a great and efficient tournament. Everything went smoothly and I think everyone had a great experience.

Shoutouts to the best team in the world (even though I'm still secretly VSM) Pallet Town Heroes. astronout Lulzlou xKhaoTikx Relaxedstate i had a great time hanging out with you guys as always. It really sucks that we got fucked by the brackets starting in top 16 but it is what it is. PTH can only have one grandmaster anyway ;_;. Also shoutouts to BlackBryan even though you're not part of our elite group you're still awesome and welcome with us any time (even though that's not my decision. don't hit me astronout).

Shoutouts to the second best team in the world VSM. sry maxter

Shoutouts to SwiftTomHanks and Phase 3 for being awesome. imo STH should be welcomed back in this community for all the work he does. I went too overboard with the NEC stuff, so I hope everyone can leave that be since no one really knows what they're talking about anymore with that.

Noobe EGP_TYRANT Kitana Prime SomeCubanGuy FOREVER KING EMPEROR_OF_OUTWORLD it was fun hanging out with you guys earlier today. great games to everyone i played. except for somecubanguy because you're free and i will money match you for any dollar amount. seriously though, your baraka is the shit and i am now one of your biggest fans. the florida crew is awesome.

GuamoKun also gets props because i would've got bodied in top 16 without his advice.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
Relaxedstate said:
First I just want to say. This tournament was run very well, and very timely. Great job 9.95 Phil. You listened to players and tried your best to get things right. I had a great time. Congrats to my teamates xKhaoTikx Revolver for making top8 and good luck today. Congrats astronout Lulzlou for making top 16. Also, good shit BlackBryan for making dat sexy Kano work its way out of pools. Special Shoutouts to FlipinFlava for getting drunk at the bar. And to some random guy for buying me tequila shots.

Now I want to talk about the brackets. #salt
I uneasily voiced my concerns to Phil long before the tournament, regarding how well he knew the players etc... I always thought guys like SwiftTomHanks made the best most balanced brackets. It is too bad a few players had to bad mouth him and accuse him of bullshit. Phil does know the players, but there were some serious oversights that could have been avoided, if Andrew could have had a say. Andrew really knows the players from ALL the scenes, not just PA, NY, and NJ....

Here is what I am saying. 5 of the 8 pools were comatose free. 1 pretty big name, maybe 2, then a bunch of randoms. When I first saw the pools I saw that I was seeded 3rd in my pool, behind Maxter and Bluenine (AlexSmith). My last tournament I got 2nd place in and my last East Coast Major I got 9th. So once again I have no idea how he got seeded higher than me. To make matters worse, right before the tournament started, Phil moves gross into our pool because apparently him and noobe train together sometimes...??? Now, I actually think making these adjustments when allotted is really great flexibility to have. HOWEVER, they added him to my pool like he was just some kind of random ass kid. ME, GROSS and Maxter were all on the same side of the bracket and blueNINE had the whole other bracket to himself. He had to beat Shock to make it to winners final.... WTF LAWL?

I ended up having to play Gross first round and again in losers semis. We had some great sets, he outplayed me and edged out the W both times. He is a great player that I respect deeply. But, if Phil respected him half as much as I do, or me, then Gross never would have been placed where he was, the way he was... I tried to talk with the "Kombat NAzi", and he told me to Quote "Shut it. These are the way the brackets were randomly made, and THEY ARE STAYING THAT WAY, now go away and wait for me to call your matches". I was blown away, what A FUCKING ASSHOLE he was to me for a simple question. And no the brackets were not randomly made that way. You moved Gross in there with no thought to the repercussions... I never even got a chance to play bluenine or MAxter... 100$ spent on the tournament felt really good to spend on that shit!! I call bullshit. And while yes, this was just one of a few oversights in a well run tourney, they affected a few players adversely... and worse they could have been avoided if the TOs listened to players like STH for advice....but I wasn't about to pull a 16bit and hold the tourney up. #Rant over #Where are my EVO points

TL;DR: Pools were still broken. Community players make them better despite accusations... sigh

With that being said Good shit to Gross for making it out of that messed up pool/bracket and good luck today in top8!

Great seeing the gang again, FOREVER KING, @Curbolicious, Blackula, Claude VonStroke (great job making it out of pools!), Goldfish, Shock, jamessmk, CD jr, anyone else I forgot cause I am not in a Relaxedstate right now :X

Edit: Phase 3 is a BOSS. No doubt
Click to expand...
to clear up a couple things, I happened to win my match in first round, that almost NEVER happens. These were 8 player brackets. BlueNINE's opponent no showed, so we wound up playing and he handled me free, which then fed me to you to put me out of my misery hehe.

I personally do not like pools, it does make organizing the tournament easier for the players, but I don't think it makes for a better tournament. I would have gladly run two 32s or even a 64 player bracket and just let it ride. Doing four 16s out to a top 16 might have also been doable, but honestly, I would have just run them down to to 8 from there.

That's just my 2 cents but regardless, the tournament itself ran smoothly.

Getting to your issue with the seeding, to be honest, it's a systemic problem with the way a number of players wanted to see them done, and it's a way I don't particularly agree with. Most players don't want to see more than 2 players seeded, per pool. I gladly will seed up to 4 before running through randoms based on relatives/teams/regions.

Gross was not treated as a total random, and when Phil approached me about your concerns during top 8 today, he explained his position further, and I agree with him. I'm sorry if you felt shafted in your pool. I will say that considering the pools were small, the positions were doled out as they would have been with no pools, however this creates less variation in who faces who in losers. This is why I like a single large bracket, because if you lose, you have no idea whom you're going to face down the road. In an 8 player pool, you got 3 players to worry about early on.

There was also an issue of a player switch during top 8, or 16? I want to make sure everyone is aware, that floating is completely up to the discretion of the TOs. We absolutely can move people later in the brackets to eliminate conflict, especially double jeopardies which I absolutely always avoid as its very unreasonable to expect a player to be OK with losing to the same person twice.

Having said this, it should also not be expected that this will happen. Players will never be floated to enhance placement, ie: moving a player ahead in the bracket. I had a huge fight with a player at Seasons Beatings 2011 about floating Tom Brady in a similar pool scenario that you described relaxed, except it was a 12 player bracket for a 95 player tournament, where the other top player had 5 free opponents while he had 2 other killers on his side. One float was done that changed nothing about the tournament, but I did have to stop a match in progress. If that match set completed, I would have not been able to do anything. Everyone has to understand that not every tournament can be perfect.

The reason why I did this, was because this was a carefully seeded tournament, and it was a major oversight.

It will also, or should also, not be done if the float will cause another conflict. The act of a random conflict later in the tournament must be played out as to not completely inconvenience other players intentionally. Again, this is merely a discretionary measure, not a guaranteed practice. This is after all, a tournament of who is the best that day, and if we wanted to do random seeding, we could, and you'd all have to like it and then complain when completely unskilled, unknowns make top 8.

When it comes to floating due to other, less serious conflicts like the instance of two players meeting each other in multiple pervious tournaments, as this is something we will occasionally seed out to avoid, if say two players have played each other in a pool 3 tournaments in a row. By having the same players eliminate the same ones over and over, an accurate picture of the scene is never established and there's no room for advancement. I generally wouldn't do this beyond semi finals unless very special case. If two players from a team have never played in a tournament before, that might be enough to prevent early or late conflicts caused by luck of the draw.

The top players who are seeded, for example 8 of 64, they are typically up against the least known players. This creates the chance for two things, either a typical slaughter, or an underdog blow up. We can't predict what will happen in that situation, but the closer in skill players get to the middle, the more likely they are to play each other if you extensively seed pools.

On a personal note, I'm getting tired of teams and regions. I really only want to seed based on previous placements, active levels, etc from here on out.

Any other questions, feel free to ask, and again, I apologize because I made the brackets with Phil and we absolutely made certain no one else was involved, even though I personally think SwiftTomHanks and Troy would have done a better job.

Edit:
I also want to add that I feel we're going to need to get stricter on what defines a team, and who should and shouldn't be seeded within the same pools. For example, anyone can train with anyone online, or call themselves an online team. I really cannot condone seeding out based on this, and you guys can all it Shock bashing online play, but it's bullshit. Training partners are in the same region, if not the same same state and get together in person to play each other on a regular basis, like...VSM and GGA for example. Players rounded up from around the country to represent a brand are NOT qualified teams that need to be seeded out to avoid conflicts. For example, while we did the KN sponsorship program, we were fortunate enough to have our players spaced out, but in essence, that is a luxury at best. Any 2 of the 3 players we sponsored did not play each other on a regular basis or live anywhere near each other. I do thank the TOs for doing that for us.
 
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