Ban lifted on women in combat

[xQUANTUMx]

As a person who has trained with multiple female purple-black belts in BJJ for the past 13 years, let me tell you, anyone who is saying "woman can be just as deadly as men" really don't know what they're talking about. Women, even competetive black belts, are not anywhere near the strength or ability of men.

This is very true to a certain extent. Mostly because men have an edge physiologically and as well a years ahead advantage. What woman typically starts strength and conditioning as heavily as early and as intensely as a man? Very few. It is not societally acceptable or "attractive". That notwithstanding, one does not necessarily need to be "stronger" to be a better killer which is what matters most in combat, especially in the field

 

[lazybird123]

This is very true to a certain extent. Mostly because men have an edge physiologically and as well a years ahead advantage. What woman typically starts strength and conditioning as heavily as early and as intensely as a man? Very few. It is not societally acceptable or "attractive". That notwithstanding, one does not necessarily need to be "stronger" to be a better killer which is what matters most in combat, especially in the field

I understand, but I'm a very nerdy out of shape video game geek, so someone like myself, just because I'm 180 lbs, should not be stronger than the type of girls that normally do BJJ at a high competetive level. So while what you're saying would make sense if we're talking about women in general, I used my example because it showed the strongest level of women (think about the kind of girl that is willing to wrestle, thats essentially what BJJ is) vs me, a very average person who did not grow up working out, let a lone doing sports.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I understand, but I'm a very nerdy out of shape video game geek, so someone like myself, just because I'm 180 lbs, should not be stronger than the type of girls that normally do BJJ at a high competetive level. So while what you're saying would make sense if we're talking about women in general, I used my example because it showed the strongest level of women (think about the kind of girl that is willing to wrestle, thats essentially what BJJ is) vs me, a very average person who did not grow up working out, let a lone doing sports.

Ok, makes sense. Are they comparable in weight? It makes a difference in grappling as you know..plus they shouldn't be "wrestling" as much per se in jits, since that's kind of a counter point to using leverage etc. Gracie barra?

 

[lazybird123]

Also, what does everyone think about women having to be included in the draft?

 

[lazybird123]

Ok, makes sense. Are they comparable in weight? It makes a difference in grappling as you know..plus they shouldn't be "wrestling" as much per se in jits, since that's kind of a counter point to using leverage etc. Gracie barra?

I used the word wrestling to give a mental picture for someone that doesn't know what BJJ is and might think its like Karate or Tae Kwon Do, but don't forget that wrestling is very technical as well

 

[Ilthuain]

Also, what does everyone think about women having to be included in the draft?

Registering for the draft is an outdated and pointless ritual. We will not tolerate another draft in this country, nor should we.

 

[xQUANTUMx]

I used the word wrestling to give a mental picture for someone that doesn't know what BJJ is and might think its like Karate or Tae Kwon Do, but don't forget that wrestling is very technical as well

Ya I know I was referring to your jits school example. I was curious as to why they were wrestling a lot as opposed to rolling more.... White belts tend to wrestle a lot as they don't know to do otherwise yet that's all

 

[Vote4theGote]

Thats the same argument that was thrown around when the navy allowed women on combatant ships, but they were right on that at first, as time continued it became less of an issue. Don't get me wrong being a former sailor I have seen much fratnization on the ship, but it was far less than what many would have assumed would occur. The biggest problem we every faced with women was when we had them purposfully getting pregnant to get out of deploying, which is what I see happening more of in this case.

Yeah, applying women to combat roles will be a logistical nightmare. We had 2 female interpreters attached to my Inf. Battalion in Iraq and both of them ended up pregnant. Women constantly get pregnant to get out of deploying but I have also seen men beat the shit out of their wives, to earn themselves a felony, just to get out of a deployment. I think it will smooth out over time but I will forever be against women being in the Infantry and Spec. Ops. Not from a sexist POV but from a logistical one.

 

[TheSpore]

Yeah, applying women to combat roles will be a logistical nightmare. We had 2 female interpreters attached to my Inf. Battalion in Iraq and both of them ended up pregnant. Women constantly get pregnant to get out of deploying but I have also seen men beat the shit out of their wives, to earn themselves a felony, just to get out of a deployment. I think it will smooth out over time but I will forever be against women being in the Infantry and Spec. Ops. Not from a sexist POV but from a logistical one.

I see where your coming from, I just always felt that women can be just as phsyically able as a man. The thing about men beating their wives to get out of deployment is the first I ever heard of that happening, then again I was in the Navy you Army folk prolly see much different issues than we do. Coming from my experience in the Navy though it is the few women that get prego to avoid deployment that make the overall look bad. My wife was set for a 6 month cruise in the Gulf and the day of her deployment we found out she was pregnant with our first born. Took us completely by surprise, but everyone on board was claiming we planned the whole thing. I feel it is just one of those things that will get better overtime, such as the DADT policy being lifted, many are having huge issues with knowing their squade mate/ship mate is openly gay, butfor the most part its all being tolerated. The first on air gay kiss in the military(ironically was two Lesbian Sailors) made huge ripples ouside the military, but was generally accepted by those within. I guess time will tell. If you don't mind can you explain what you mean by logistically?

 

[TheSpore]

Registering for the draft is an outdated and pointless ritual. We will not tolerate another draft in this country, nor should we.

We had enough issues with the draft back in Vietnam era that I don't think it could ever be trully reinstated unless we were to have WWIII and even if it did come back we would prolly see huge alterations and changes made to the policy.

 

[Goldi]

The only places I know of we weren't allowed in military service were for very good reasons. One was submarines, purely out of the practically that they cannot separate women's bathrooms, sleeping quarters, ect. Subs are just too small to meet the regulations that would allow us there.

The front line in combat - I agree we don't belong there. Because an enemy is not just going to kill a woman. They're going to... Do much darker things.

Also, what kind of mental toll does this take on the men fighting with them? We could quickly become a distraction and a liability.

Friends of mine in the military have admitted they would run to a screaming woman before thinking about much else. It's just instinct to. Especially a woman they know and feel a sense of responsibility for. It complicates an already depressing and stressful environment.

We're definitely equals, but not mentally or biologically identical.

 

[Tavaski]

women should stay in support MOS/NEC i'm infantry 11B and no woman can/could deal with what I go through on deployments. It's always been men fighting for their country, imagine pearl harbor but only with women...

 

[Vote4theGote]

I see where your coming from, I just always felt that women can be just as phsyically able as a man. The thing about men beating their wives to get out of deployment is the first I ever heard of that happening, then again I was in the Navy you Army folk prolly see much different issues than we do. Coming from my experience in the Navy though it is the few women that get prego to avoid deployment that make the overall look bad. My wife was set for a 6 month cruise in the Gulf and the day of her deployment we found out she was pregnant with our first born. Took us completely by surprise, but everyone on board was claiming we planned the whole thing. I feel it is just one of those things that will get better overtime, such as the DADT policy being lifted, many are having huge issues with knowing their squade mate/ship mate is openly gay, butfor the most part its all being tolerated. The first on air gay kiss in the military(ironically was two Lesbian Sailors) made huge ripples ouside the military, but was generally accepted by those within. I guess time will tell. If you don't mind can you explain what you mean by logistically?

I just feel it will be a nightmare in terms of living quarters, showers, etc. Also, nobody falls in love like a Joe/Sailor/Marine/Airman, what happens when love/jealousy comes into play. I can intuitively forecast a much higher homocide rate in the military due to male/female relations in combat arms situations. From my experience, I can see this being a nightmare for the Infantry because Joes are going to be more concerned for their female counterpart than the mission at hand. I think in other combat arms units such as Artillery and Tanks would be a good fit for women. It will take a WHOLE lot of rearranging to accomodate these changes.

I was pleasantly suprised to see them lift the ban on Gay men and women in the military. I wouldn't want to be judged based on what goes on behind my bedroom doors and neither should others. Damn, but that would open the door for workplace relationships within Combat Arms Units. IDK, maybe it will not be the nightmare I thought it would be. I hate poking holes in my own theories, lol!

 

[DJ L Toro]

The military may have a different de jure policy, but de facto they're still partiarchal and homophobic. no women will serve as front line troops this decade

 

[WayoftheFist]

The only places I know of we weren't allowed in military service were for very good reasons. One was submarines, purely out of the practically that they cannot separate women's bathrooms, sleeping quarters, ect. Subs are just too small to meet the regulations that would allow us there.

The front line in combat - I agree we don't belong there. Because an enemy is not just going to kill a woman. They're going to... Do much darker things.

Also, what kind of mental toll does this take on the men fighting with them? We could quickly become a distraction and a liability.

Friends of mine in the military have admitted they would run to a screaming woman before thinking about much else. It's just instinct to. Especially a woman they know and feel a sense of responsibility for. It complicates an already depressing and stressful environment.

We're definitely equals, but not mentally or biologically identical.

This is pretty much exactly what I wanted to say but better than I could have said it. Also, we already have to count our fathers and sons among the dead on the front lines, was it necessary to add our mothers and daughters to that toll as well? What we've already lost is bad enough.

 

[BlackBryan]

As a person who has trained with multiple female purple-black belts in BJJ for the past 13 years, let me tell you, anyone who is saying "woman can be just as deadly as men" really don't know what they're talking about. Women, even competetive black belts, are not anywhere near the strength or ability of men.

Wrestling vs a 3 hit kill are two very different things. The military isn't trained to fight, the military is trained to kill, and to to it quickly.

 

[CYracks]

the reason they didn't let women in combat MOS's is because they didn't want pictures them getting blown up. I think this is a bad choice

 

[ForeverKing]

You keep saying average female. The average female doesn't sign up for the military.. And I'm willing to put 194 bucks down saying any woman, with military training, could kill you in under 10 seconds.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I guess I know what you mean. But still, a women is not going to kill me in under 10 seconds when I have boxed ever since I was little and and wrestled for 7-8 years and have won state titles. I think i would be able to defend myself pretty decently lol

 

[ForeverKing]

You keep saying average female. The average female doesn't sign up for the military.. And I'm willing to put 194 bucks down saying any woman, with military training, could kill you in under 10 seconds.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

If you've ever had a crazy woman for a girlfriend who knew martial arts stuff that could kill you easily, you wouldn't be saying this.

Women can be as deadly as a man. I mean, have you ever seen the video of the little Asian chick that German Suplexed the fuck outta some die trying to steal her purse?

In my experience of middle school and high school wrestling, I had to wrestle a couple girls every here and there. And again no offense to women in general, but they were pretty helpless. They couldn't do anything at all. My coaches would always tell me to go easy on them. One girl I just let her score a couple points because I felt bad. It's really not something debatable, it's a scientifically proven fact that males or born bigger faster stronger etc. Women are just not as physically as big.

And BlackBryan you talk about a woman with military training being able to kill somebody in under 10 seconds, when they meet up with male from the other side of the war on a battlefield that male is also going to have lots of military training as well, along with the fact of males just being naturally bigger faster stronger. So I would put 194 bucks saying she wouldn't kill that guy in under 10 seconds

 

[Enenra]

Necroing this thread. As soon as I finish high school I'm either enlisting in the Marines, or finally committing to delayed into delayed enlistment to BUD/S. For what that's worth.

I do not think women should serve in combat roles. I've thought a lot about this, and it is just a bad choice. First of all, these are fucked up people. My best friends, family, you name it that have served are damaged. And fucked up in some of their morals and decision making. Now you want to stick a couple of women into a barracks with these guys? It's a guarantee that because of this the sexual abuse and rape rates will increase dramatically.

And you have to do everything to the women you do to the men, and you have to have them eat, breathe, and shit together. If you don't, you don't build comradery. It makes the women outsiders, and if one of them gets shot in Iraq and is laying in the street bleeding out, who is going to risk their lives to them out? I know I wouldn't. You can bleed out or get double tapped, I'm going to complete the mission. And women's standards should be raised to that of the men for expected tests and PT, as well as mental and physical treatment.

The issue of what is going to be done to the women by the enemy has already been touched on more than accurately.

I absolutely do not want women in SF. Do not add additional factors to operations of the nature that SEALs, Rangers, Green Berets, MARSOC and the likes carry out. Fortunately, I cannot fathom women making the training requirements for something like the SEALs where there is a 96% attrition rate for absolute top of the line men. Goldfish and Ninj had great points, where are equal but not identical. If one does, then I give her props for being a BAMF but I still don't want her going on these types of operations.

Also, a policy for pregnancy needs to be put in place. If a women doesn't want to get deployed/redeployed and gets knocked up, now her platoon is down a soldier with a very important job. If multiple women follow suit, the company is fucked. Some sort of plan needs to enacted here because war sucks and many women will try and be sneaky to get out of it. Many men would too if they could, not trying to bad mouth women, but do not allo them to disadvantage their brethren because of fear.

And lastly, because I could rant on for days, the possible draft associated should never be allowed to go through. Not only is it retarded to force people into service, but I don't want Susan the beauty queen turned soccer mom covering my six and freezing up when a kid who kinda-sorta looks like her son has an AK pointed at the back of my head. Selfish I know, but I want her to be as prepared to kill for me as I am ready to kill for her. It's this way with men as well, as much as I love my best friend I would never willingly have him covering my back in a breach and clear. It's just exaggerated due to the natural and healthy differences between the make up of men and women.

I love women. I love equality and freedom, and any women certainly deserves it. I love it so much so that I'm willing to die for it. But keep women in the rear with the gear.

 

[Reedoms]

 

[DJ L Toro]

Necroing this thread. As soon as I finish high school I'm either enlisting in the Marines, or finally committing to delayed into delayed enlistment to BUD/S. For what that's worth.

I do not think women should serve in combat roles. I've thought a lot about this, and it is just a bad choice. First of all, these are fucked up people. My best friends, family, you name it that have served are damaged. And fucked up in some of their morals and decision making. Now you want to stick a couple of women into a barracks with these guys? It's a guarantee that because of this the sexual abuse and rape rates will increase dramatically.

And you have to do everything to the women you do to the men, and you have to have them eat, breathe, and shit together. If you don't, you don't build comradery. It makes the women outsiders, and if one of them gets shot in Iraq and is laying in the street bleeding out, who is going to risk their lives to them out? I know I wouldn't. You can bleed out or get double tapped, I'm going to complete the mission. And women's standards should be raised to that of the men for expected tests and PT, as well as mental and physical treatment.

The issue of what is going to be done to the women by the enemy has already been touched on more than accurately.

I absolutely do not want women in SF. Do not add additional factors to operations of the nature that SEALs, Rangers, Green Berets, MARSOC and the likes carry out. Fortunately, I cannot fathom women making the training requirements for something like the SEALs where there is a 96% attrition rate for absolute top of the line men. Goldfish and Ninj had great points, where are equal but not identical. If one does, then I give her props for being a BAMF but I still don't want her going on these types of operations.

Also, a policy for pregnancy needs to be put in place. If a women doesn't want to get deployed/redeployed and gets knocked up, now her platoon is down a soldier with a very important job. If multiple women follow suit, the company is fucked. Some sort of plan needs to enacted here because war sucks and many women will try and be sneaky to get out of it. Many men would too if they could, not trying to bad mouth women, but do not allo them to disadvantage their brethren because of fear.

And lastly, because I could rant on for days, the possible draft associated should never be allowed to go through. Not only is it retarded to force people into service, but I don't want Susan the beauty queen turned soccer mom covering my six and freezing up when a kid who kinda-sorta looks like her son has an AK pointed at the back of my head. Selfish I know, but I want her to be as prepared to kill for me as I am ready to kill for her. It's this way with men as well, as much as I love my best friend I would never willingly have him covering my back in a breach and clear. It's just exaggerated due to the natural and healthy differences between the make up of men and women.

I love women. I love equality and freedom, and any women certainly deserves it. I love it so much so that I'm willing to die for it. But keep women in the rear with the gear.

what about birdsongs?

 

[NapoleonComplex]

If people want to be IDIOTS and join the military, fuckin let them

I feel the same way, Bill

 

[Critical-Limit]

Look, they are "tested" to make sure they are capable of handling front line fighting.

if a woman turns out to be stronger than her male counterpart or has more endurance. What the hell is the point of putting her aside if she's more fit for the job than someone else?

You'll still see a disparity in number of men and women on front lines because of natural strength. If a woman is better at calculating distance for sniping, why choose a man who isn't as capable?

Especially if they WANT to.



Again, they are tested to see if they could handle it.

some of you guys are making it seem like they'll send out a 80lbs woman who can barely lift a plate of food out to the front lines.

They do tests to see if you can carry a soldier a certain distance ect ect. They're not gonna just start pumping them into the front lines.


just wanted to get that straight.




EDIT:

I have friends that have come back broken because of constant war in the middle east. I'm a strong advocate for peace, I dont' want ANYONE over in the middle east.

I think Drone STrikes are effing evil, and they kill hundreds of innocent children and in the thousands when it comes to total innocent civilians being killed.



But when it comes down to REAL defense. not INVASION like we're doing.

I see no problem. whoever is stronger, and more will powered to do so. if it happens to be a woman I'm fine with that.

 

[LesMore]

Registering for the draft is an outdated and pointless ritual. We will not tolerate another draft in this country, nor should we.

The reason there is no draft is not so much that we wont tolerate it, as it is the fact that rich people's children used to have to fight in the war when we had one...