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Recommended Patch Adjustments

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S

supa

Noob
I'd like the combo-to-specials to be fixed. I could probably get used to this, though...

I like the reference to "negative edge fix" when it isn't even negative edge... I wonder how many people blind-copy that from SRK. :p

The game is competitive online - you're doing it wrong. Besides, you can always just put it in Hyper Kombat mode and spam projectiles ala the SF2 Turbo days. Lots of fun.

Stuff I consider bugs:

Custom controls (ya, a lot of us have TE arcade sticks without the MK panel...) will randomly reset during the Tower, Trainer and other single player modes. I don't think I have had this happen in online or versus play at all.

I'd like some dust or other visual cue for Quan Chi's Zombie Walk and Ermacs invisible projectiles just so people quit whining that they have "the biggest hitbox ever." Hell - even highlight the hitbox in trainer. I don't care. I need to deliver some STFU! :)

This has been in almost every MK.... but it would be really nice if there was a generic "debuff" at round end. For example, Zombie Walk with Quan Chi does a tiny bit of damage - if that "kills" the opponent they keep zombie walking and you lose your chance at a fatality. I think some other states do the same thing - on-fire, frozen timeout, dizzy, etc before or part of the killing-blow will break fatalities. As easy as it is to "accidentally the special" it would be great if there was a generic status reset before the Fatality marker.

Speaking of Zombie Walk - why is Quan Chi frozen for like 3 seconds after the move connects? Could the animation for the zombie-walk at least be extended or something so I know when the move ends and I have control again?

Some of the push physics on moves are odd. Certain kicks and punches will push a blocking opponent to safe while others don't. There was the early Johnny Cage punch bug, but it seems present in other stuff. It seems Kung Lao's generic punch kombo (1, 2, 1, 2 I think?) has no push properties. It's easy to run up and do shennanigans like 1, 2, 1, pause, 1, 2, pause, 1, 2, 1, pause, 1, 2, 1, throw, etc until you chip your opponent to death or they get tired of seeing it and let you win. It only seems really punishable with a super fast move (Kung Lao's spin) or an X-ray. If you're in the corner - good luck! It's MB 2A spam time!

Quan Chi has a "no push" combo that can be paired with his unblockable Disco move. :(

On-the-ground opponents can easily be walked over, slid over, shadow kick, etc. Sometimes, this even works on crouching opponents (?). There seem to be a no-collision state or something for OTG that lets you clip right through them. No idea what's up with shadow kicking through a crouching opponent.....

Foreground objects sometimes don't go transparent like they should. Some moves (superman, shadowkick, teleports) will cause the camera to turn behind foreground objects - completely blocking the view of the characters.... :\

The desync bugs for certain kombos are weird. I'm going to try the kombo I found to be guaranteed to cause a desync with my buttons set to default config and report back later whether or not it still breaks.
 
Trini_Bwoi

Trini_Bwoi

Kombatant
If you have your back towards the opponent (because you jumped over them, they jumped over, they teleported etc...) your combos that start with forward/backward won't work. It gets annoying when you're trying to punish stuff like Cyrax's teleport, a whiffed Noob slam, Kitana's square wave...

Noob's forward and backward EX Dark Holes don't work!

And I think they could come up with a better input for these 3 location attacks because DFB is really awkward but anyhow that's not important.
 
S

supa

Noob
Zebster said:
It was a patch to prevent an infinite.
Click to expand...
Ya.... That's not quite what I meant.....

As you can see in the message above, I ask why there isn't an additional animation or something similar. I'm not sure why they wouldn't continue the sparkly effect or something during the "lock" period. Look at other projectiles - do you see other characters just getting stuck in place for 3 seconds after throwing a projectile with no animation on the character at all? :\

It's lame, dumb and turns it into a timed, strict link kombo.

Additionally, there are more broken places around Zombie Walk now, anyway. You can try to do something like Back 2, 1, zombie walk, back 2, 1 zombie walk.... the second Zombie Walk will come out, but the projectile loses collision. And you can't do the Helpful Skeleton boost during the walk anymore, either.
 
G

GStick

Noob
I do agree that it needs some sort of animation. Maybe Quan-Chi could look tired, like he used up a lot of energy doing the move or something... Just something to let the players know and make it feel way less awkward after the move is over.
 
Arcade-Fever

Arcade-Fever

Mortal
supa said:
Ya.... That's not quite what I meant.....

As you can see in the message above, I ask why there isn't an additional animation or something similar. I'm not sure why they wouldn't continue the sparkly effect or something during the "lock" period. Look at other projectiles - do you see other characters just getting stuck in place for 3 seconds after throwing a projectile with no animation on the character at all? :\

It's lame, dumb and turns it into a timed, strict link kombo.

Additionally, there are more broken places around Zombie Walk now, anyway. You can try to do something like Back 2, 1, zombie walk, back 2, 1 zombie walk.... the second Zombie Walk will come out, but the projectile loses collision. And you can't do the Helpful Skeleton boost during the walk anymore, either.
Click to expand...
Because they patched it with a tweak that only allow to fix values, not a patch that allow for animation change, animation changes and stuff don't magically happen.
 
S

supa

Noob
Arcade-Fever said:
Because they patched it with a tweak that only allow to fix values, not a patch that allow for animation change, animation changes and stuff don't magically happen.
Click to expand...
Oh, thank you, professional nomad psychic coder of NetherRealms Studio. I'm glad you cleared that up so definitively!

Here's a thought: the zombie sparkles on his hands during the animation have a "value" with a time that is a "value." That "value" could be adjusted to keep his hands sparkling in the neutral stance during cooldown. There is also a "value" associated with the total length of the move while he does the oogabooga-handwork. Possibly.... tweaking either one would keep an effect on-screen rather than empty frames of neutral animation - without adding or removing model animation not present.

Your "value" vs "magic" makes less sense than the move having all those empty frames.

Instead of playing pretend that you somehow have knowledge into how the game actually works...... how about you let my complaint stand without making crap up?
 
T

tehm

Noob
@Supa

You don't have to work at NRS to know how game engines or animation work.

You can't just "change the keyframe numbers" for an animation to make it longer, you'd get some other random animation(s) tacked onto the end of it. There are ways they probably COULD make it work (replacing the single iteration of the animation with multiples) IF they purposefuly set it up in advance anticipating the need to do so, but the short of it is changing animations is relatively hard and almost always requires doing original work rather than simply "changing a value".

On the other hand, apparently doing something like changing a value in an XML that the fight engine reads off of from like a 100 to a 300 (the delay of the move) or whatever apparently is quite easy and they went ahead and did it with a quick fix.


tl;dr
The word you're looking for isn't "magic" it's called "best practice". Ya dig?
 
S

supa

Noob
Ya, again, let the complaint stand and stop making things up.

You can speculate you think you know how it works - but you don't. Of course, neither do I.

There is absolutely no reason you can't restart an animation. Animations from this game don't start from neutral - you can see that in the cancel kombos. They do end in neutral (at least, they look like they do with the zombie walk animation). There doesn't seem to be a reason the animation couldn't be restarted. Or, as mentioned, if they continued the effect of the swirling until the frozen state was over - fixed. The particle effect probably has a duration or is probably even a flag set on a character state not tied to animation frames. You could tell it's probably a state flag somewhere because the effect sometimes gets "stuck" (for example, end a match with a zombie walk effect - sometimes it continues through the whole next match!). Enable the state for the complete duration for both characters. Done.

I'm capable of admitting all of this is speculation. I have no idea how it works.

Identify which best practice you outlined. A "best practice" would be a documented suggestion used in multiple systems. Where did you discover NetherRealms' list of best practices? Two systems that appear identical don't always have the same best practice. Refusing to loop animations is certainly not a best practice. What source are you referring to that lists best practices for zombie walk animations? Are you cut and pasting buzzwords from TechNet/XNA discussions?

Nevermind - don't answer. Just let the complaint stand without trying to play Sherlock.
 
T

tehm

Noob
Did you seriously just use an entire paragraph to "contradict" me by reiterating something I stated in one sentence?

The answer to your first paragraph is "There are ways they probably COULD make it work (replacing the single iteration of the animation with multiples) IF they purposefuly set it up in advance anticipating the need to do so, but the short of it is changing animations is relatively hard and almost always requires doing original work rather than simply 'changing a value'."

The answer to your second is "Of course each language has its own best programming practices, each business has their own standardized best practices and since I have no in depth information about the proceses used inside NRS I can know nothing about either of these." BUT I didn't cite best practice in that manor, I was using it very broadly to refer to standard software engineering principals which basically all game design studios adhere to due to the golden rule of software development ("Never re-invent the wheel").

The reason I suspect that NRS didn't put in a simple way to run multiple recorded animations (or iterations of a single animation) for a single move is simply because THEY DIDN'T DO IT. Not because of the general best practices I was referring to such as actually using that style of animation bookkeeping or having a combat engine distinct from what's going on in the animation engine that reads from simple text/xml/whatever inputs.

No one is complaining about you pointing out things that look like bugs that NRS should take a look out. What you were called out on was pointing at something that NRS deliberately did to FIX a bug and saying "...but that looks worse than before you fixed it. Look at it again NRS, your fix wasn't good enough!"


The real irony of the situation is that you almost certainly already knew all of this because, while you're stupid, you aren't that kind of stupid. Good job being a dick. Mission accomplished.
 
S

supa

Noob
tehm said:
No one is complaining about you pointing out things that look like bugs that NRS should take a look out. What you were called out on was pointing at something that NRS deliberately did to FIX a bug and saying "...but that looks worse than before you fixed it. Look at it again NRS, your fix wasn't good enough!"


The real irony of the situation is that you almost certainly already knew all of this because, while you're stupid, you aren't that kind of stupid. Good job being a dick. Mission accomplished.
Click to expand...
Zombie Walk appears to have been reworked several times. I mentioned this already. 1) There was the delay I'm complaining about, 2) Double zombie walks have no-collide projectiles, 3) Helpful Skeleton no longer works after a zombie walk.

In those 3 reiterations, of which I don't know which happened in what order, I would like to have an effect to signal the end of the freeze period. I never said the fix "wasn't good enough," although you can infer that if you want to pretty easily. In other news, I'm not sure if you realize this, but the fact that they fixed it implies the work wasn't good enough. They probably applied a fast duct-tape style fix - it would be nice if I knew when the animation ended.

They may have been limited in the way they applied the fix. Who knows - maybe there is an XML file that is a database of what moves link to what, what their timings are, etc and that's how they implemented stealth updates. Who cares? You certainly aren't the developer and you aren't related to NRS in any way.

You are the one that suggested animations can't loop. They can. There's no reason they can't. I'm not contradicting you - I'm adding information to help you academically argue with yourself as you seem to be interested in that. I never suggested or requested that as a solution - only as a possibility. For all I care, they could just enable the red-eye effect present in the Zombie and other animations. Or even the glowing eyes from the tilted levels. I don't really care - I just want to know when the animation ends visually. It looks quite silly to watch Quan Chi get pushed around by the zombified opponent and, as I said, turns it into a weirdly timed link.

You have given me lectures on things that aren't even related and don't make sense. You have even gone as far as calling me stupid... really?

There is no reason to call people names. There's really no reason to go on rants about how you know how to implement and not implement fixes. That makes no sense.

Maybe... just maybe... on the next iteration of fixes, of which they could very well be packaged in a permanent update and not the stealth fixes, this could happen. I think it would be nice.

Let the complaint stand and stfu, eh?
 
G

GStick

Noob
supa, I'm sure everyone would like an animation there (I know I do), but in those database patches it's safe to assume they can't do it. It could probably happen in a full downloadable patch though, so just keep your hopes up for that, alright man?
 
low_kix

low_kix

Noob
Recommended patch adjustment: Quan Chi has a longer hypno animation after zombie walk

Good suggestion, we all agree!

Boom.

Next!



"I am vengeance, I am the night..."
 
Dark_Rob

Dark_Rob

Champion
Zebster,Supa, Tehm, Thats enough of the name calling from all 3 of you. If you cant participate in the discussion civil like, then dont participate at all. So drop it here.
 
Lucky Day

Lucky Day

Kombatant
What Dr. Dogg has in his OP really covers most of the feature and menu glitches.

We are closing this thread and re-focusing here:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?5415-The-Mortal-Kombat-9-Wish-List-Thread&p=58620#post58620

-------------------------------------

Glitches should be continued to be reported in this forum:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?207-Glitch-Reporting

DLC discussion and requests here:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?247-DLC-Discussion-Requests

--------------------------------------------


Thanks.
 
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