Match-up Discussion Scorpion Vs. Kung Lao?

[Vagrant]

Hey guys I'm researching each matchup in depth for scorpion, like to the last frame, over the next couple of months and decided to focus on Lao first. When it's finally done I'm going to post the most detailed fuckin matchup guide this site has ever seen.

I have a few questions, some of them I already have an idea of the answer to, but want to hear it from the scorp community. As well as the Lao community as well.

What basic strings do you find lao players rely on most?
What strings can Scorpion poke out of?
Which strings are unsafe and punishable?
The most efficient way to punish tele on read?
Any other matchup information you'd like to add

Thanks and expect a shitload more of these over the next few months.

 

[coolwhip]

1) 2,1 - 2, 4- 1,1,2
2) If you read that a Lao player will use 2, 1 for example, release block (you should generally be blocking low against Kung Lao) and use D1, or uppercut.
3) Lao's B3, 3 3 is hella negative on block, but very few players use it. His main strings are safe.
4) On read, dash back and B2 for a full combo leading to a vortex.

Lao controlling the air and having so much mobility makes it difficult for Scorpion, plus the fact that Scorpion's poke aren't reliable makes it even worse. I think it's 6-4 in Lao's favor, but it's a very tough 6-4 for Scorpion, if that makes any sense.

 

[Vagrant]

Lao controlling the air and having so much mobility makes it difficult for Scorpion, plus the fact that Scorpion's poke aren't reliable makes it even worse. I think it's 6-4 in Lao's favor, but it's a very tough 6-4 for Scorpion, if that makes any sense.

Thanks for the help first of all

Yeah this is a matchup that really requires patience and composure from the scorpion player. You really have to know when to make your move.

 

[Big Pampering]

- Most used strings: 21/2121/24(overhead)/ 1121. After any of these strings except for 2121 the lao player can challenge you with a spin because all of these strings are neutral(24 is -1, so a 6 frame spin is still going to beat your 7 frame d3). If you expect a spin just block and punish. If they try to follow up with another set of these strings after the first one, all your neutral crouch options will beat it (d1/d21/d3/d4) even if the standing 2 is 7 frames.

- 24 overhead is safe/ 24 low hat is unsafe and its best to punish it with 33 spear.

- tele 3 on block is neutral and if you block it, you get the same situation as a blocked 1121/21 = in all neutral point blank situations you will be forced to guess whether he will spin or not, also dont even try to jump out because the spin will catch you or even worse they will do a jumpkick dive kick to catch you in the air for 30% combo.

the best option to punish teleport on read is dash out spear. or if it is just unbelievably predictable just jumpkick teleport them into a combo. if it is predictable but youre not on point with your reaction just uppercut it, but watch out for ex teleport.

scorpion doesnt do bad in this matchup because he punishes pretty hard.

 

[Qwark28]

Scorpion can punish kung lao way more than most of the cast, vortex setups do a lot of damage and have a guaranteed crossup 111 takedown 8% chip followup

watch out for 1121, a good KL will be using it, if you get caught by the 1 then b1f1 will beat anything that isn't armoured and can be hit confirmed to spin.

 

[Qwark28]

the best option to punish teleport on read is dash out spear. or if it is just unbelievably predictable just jumpkick teleport them into a combo. if it is predictable but youre not on point with your reaction just uppercut it, but watch out for ex teleport.

scorpion doesnt do bad in this matchup because he punishes pretty hard.

bad choices for reads, spear gets like 25% and jik isn't even at max height so you can't double tp d1 spear for more damage

b2 is your go to punisher for read teles.

 

[Big Pampering]

1) 2,1 - 2, 4- 1,1,2
2) If you read that a Lao player will use 2, 1 for example, release block (you should generally be blocking low against Kung Lao) and use D1, or uppercut.
3) Lao's B3, 3 3 is hella negative on block, but very few players use it. His main strings are safe.
4) On read, dash back and B2 for a full combo leading to a vortex.

Lao controlling the air and having so much mobility makes it difficult for Scorpion, plus the fact that Scorpion's poke aren't reliable makes it even worse. I think it's 6-4 in Lao's favor, but it's a very tough 6-4 for Scorpion, if that makes any sense.

why would you use d1 to poke out? if youre gonna poke d3/d4 are the best options against lao in those situations. d1 doesnt grant you any decent advantage.

also uppercut is a decent option to interrupt his pressure but if the lao player reads it he can just duck and punish it with 21 spin for full combo.

 

[coolwhip]

- Most used strings: 21/2121/24(overhead)/ 1121. After any of these strings except for 2121 the lao player can challenge you with a spin because all of these strings are neutral(24 is -1, so a 6 frame spin is still going to beat your 7 frame d3). If you expect a spin just block and punish. If they try to follow up with another set of these strings after the first one, all your neutral crouch options will beat it (d1/d21/d3/d4) even if the standing 2 is 7 frames.

- 24 overhead is safe/ 24 low hat is unsafe and its best to punish it with 33 spear.

- tele 3 on block is neutral and if you block it, you get the same situation as a blocked 1121/21 = in all neutral point blank situations you will be forced to guess whether he will spin or not, also dont even try to jump out because the spin will catch you or even worse they will do a jumpkick dive kick to catch you in the air for 30% combo.

the best option to punish teleport on read is dash out spear. or if it is just unbelievably predictable just jumpkick teleport them into a combo. if it is predictable but youre not on point with your reaction just uppercut it, but watch out for ex teleport.

scorpion doesnt do bad in this matchup because he punishes pretty hard.

This is spot on.

One thing though, Slips said the best way he punishes a tele on read is dash out and B2 instead of spear. I think the B2 would do more damage, since it will be followed by JK/tele/1,1,1/spear, followed with the usual JIP, F2 1 tele. Whereas after a spear you can only do the the JIP, F2 1 tele since you'd be catching him out of the air.

The best way to play the match-up if you're Scorpion is try to be safe and punish hard when you get the opportunity, as opposed to taking all the risks, which against a good Lao, will likely get you blown up.

 

[Big Pampering]

bad choices for reads, spear gets like 25% and jik isn't even at max height so you can't double tp d1 spear for more damage

b2 is your go to punisher for read teles.

isnt b2 pretty slow compared to spear, so will you have enough time to take the ex teleport into account? and if you jumpkick teleport you can catch him on the other side with 111 spear which is still a very good option.

 

[coolwhip]

why would you use d1 to poke out? if youre gonna poke d3/d4 are the best options against lao in those situations. d1 doesnt grant you any decent advantage.

also uppercut is a decent option to interrupt his pressure but if the lao player reads it he can just duck and punish it with 21 spin for full combo.

I'm pretty sure Scorpion's D3 is negative on hit.

 

[Vagrant]

- . After any of these strings except for 2121 the lao player can challenge you with a spin because all of these strings are neutral...

Wow thats ballsy.

That seems like it's gonna be one of scorps oppurtunitys in the matchup. Bait follow up spin and punish

 

[Vagrant]

I'm pretty sure Scorpion's D3 is negative on hit.

correct

 

[Big Pampering]

I'm pretty sure Scorpion's D3 is negative on hit.

totally forgot about that, d4 takedown/ d1 takedown would be the best choice then.

 

[Big Pampering]

This is spot on.

One thing though, Slips said the best way he punishes a tele on read is dash out and B2 instead of spear. I think the B2 would do more damage, since it will be followed by JK/tele/1,1,1/spear, followed with the usual JIP, F2 1 tele. Whereas after a spear you can only do the the JIP, F2 1 tele since you'd be catching him out of the air.

The best way to play the match-up if you're Scorpion is try to be safe and punish hard when you get the opportunity, as opposed to taking all the risks, which against a good Lao, will likely get you blown up.

if slips says it , the b2 must have enough time to punish teleport and take the ex version into account at the same time.

 

[coolwhip]

Wow thats ballsy.

That seems like it's gonna be one of scorps oppurtunitys in the matchup. Bait follow up spin and punish

Generally speaking, a good Lao player will only spin after one of his strings on block if he notices that you're getting too poke-happy. If you're trying to poke after every string, then he'll blow you up with a spin. But, aside from an occasional spin to catch you off guard, it's not a good idea to spin after a blocked string against Scorpion since he punishes really hard, and if you read it, they've just eaten a 40% combo.

 

[Qwark28]

isnt b2 pretty slow compared to spear, so will you have enough time to take the ex teleport into account? and if you jumpkick teleport you can catch him on the other side with 111 spear which is still a very good option.

this is based on a read, ex teles arent randomly thrown out because you can just jump back

you can still b2 it

if you know theyre not gonna use delayed 3 then you can walk through them for a punish

 

[Qwark28]

why would you use d1 to poke out? if youre gonna poke d3/d4 are the best options against lao in those situations. d1 doesnt grant you any decent advantage.

also uppercut is a decent option to interrupt his pressure but if the lao player reads it he can just duck and punish it with 21 spin for full combo.

check the frame data

d1 takedown is very useful in this case

 

[Vagrant]

Some tidbits here I've taken note of while studying this matchup.

If a D3 is blocked and lao advances and tries to pressure scorp gets full combo

24 1+2After this string is blocked scorpion has an opportunity to apply pressure. Kung Lao players may be looking for this however and can counter with spin or 2. This is one of the main footsie games that will decide who wins.

After a blocked roll if Lao tries to advance (and you'd be surprised how many do) scorp gets a full combo

 

[Big Pampering]

Some tidbits here I've taken note of while studying this matchup.

If a D3 is blocked and lao advances and tries to pressure scorp gets full combo

24 1+2After this string is blocked scorpion has an opportunity to apply pressure. Kung Lao players may be looking for this however and can counter with spin or 2. This is one of the main footsie games that will decide who wins.

After a blocked roll if Lao tries to advance (and you'd be surprised how many do) scorp gets a full combo

I dont think scorpions pressure is that great after 24 overhead, also dont be thinking it is best to block a f3 roll and pressure the lao player, because he can spin or low hat cancel it so there might be something coming after the roll. the best option to punish laos who think they can roll all day, is to walk back and let the roll whiff, on whiff you have a lot of time to full combo punish it.

also I dont even finish the 24 string half of the time. I like to do 24 into 21/1121. 24 into crossover punch/ jumpkick dive kick/ 24 into grab. so dont be expecting an overhead to come all the time. also people might still be sneaking a low hat in there.

 

[quandaghost]

I found that in this match-up you have to be patient, and always watch out for the spin. 3,3 spear, vortex will be your most common punish for blocked spins. on blocked dive kicks B2 will grant you a 35-38% punish into a vortex. I find thatif you know the teleport is coming you can always uppercut it, or walk back and B2 the lao.

If you happen to land a 3,3 spear on your opponent in the corner. 3,3 spear, jip, F2,1, ex teleport, 2,1 3,3, teleport, 1,1 spear will do around 42% and can actually cause a void if timed correctly with F4.
If you can land it consistently the bigger punish would be 3,3 spear, jip, F2,1, ex teleport, 2,1 jik, teleport, 1,1 spear 48 or 52% I'm not sure

If you happen to be cornered an hit an ex teleport the same combos will work with both combos making a potential void, vortex possible.
Both will do around 70-80% after taking the combo plus the following mix-up. (Ex). Ex teleport, 2,1 3,3 teleport, 1,1 spear, (vortex) OS (void) 2, 2+1, spear F4, B2,D4, D3

I found that you have punish every mistake Lao does severely to scare them into not doing somethings. Don't jump as much as possible. I honestly believe 3,3 is probably gonna be one of the most common strings outside of F2,1 and 1,1 you use in this match-up. You will most definitely need to know most of Kung Lao's most commonly used strings will whiff high on the first hit. the first hit of 1,1,2,1 whiffs high, the first hit of 2,4 whiffs high. You need to be able to learn how to poke out of his pressure to keep him honest. Poking him while he is doing he trying to do his strings can make the Lao think that he can spin after doing some strings. Use that to your advantage. Some Lao will spin to keep you from poking them out of pressure. This can lead to a big punish.

I found it's better to go for the void in this match-up rather than the vortex. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS be using both, but the void works well here as it keep Kung Lao from using his wake-up attacks, and grants you a full vortex combo on hit.

It's been a while since I have played a great Lao, but making him respect that he cannot rely on the spin is usually the way I go. Once They fear a punish for a blocked spin that will allow you some room to do some things.

 

[Axel_Redd]

Kungs b33 is only -8 on block. Smoke smoke bomb on block is -7 and no one ever really punishes it unless they time it perfectly. so u still gotta watch out for that b33, the most u could hope to get is a poke or possibly reptiles dash or kung laos spin in the mirror, lol.

 

[STRYKIE]

Kungs b33 is only -8 on block. Smoke smoke bomb on block is -7 and no one ever really punishes it unless they time it perfectly. so u still gotta watch out for that b33, the most u could hope to get is a poke or possibly reptiles dash or kung laos spin in the mirror, lol.

Smoke bomb is -9 on block, and I've been able to punish it on reaction straight up with Sektor's 12B1. Honestly if it was -12 or more I don't think it'd be a bad match for Scorp.

 

[coolwhip]

Kungs b33 is only -8 on block. Smoke smoke bomb on block is -7 and no one ever really punishes it unless they time it perfectly. so u still gotta watch out for that b33, the most u could hope to get is a poke or possibly reptiles dash or kung laos spin in the mirror, lol.

I'm not saying there's no point in ever going for b33, but given that it's almost impossible to hit confirm it to spin on reaction and you have to pretty much commit to the spin, and the fact that most players ought to know to block low against Kung Lao anyway, I personally tend to stay away from it.

 

[Axel_Redd]

....i thought smoke bomb is -7.......whered u get -9?


i use b33 a lot because not only does it aparently alter his hitbox a bit, but the small delay you have between a block string like 11 or 21 and then performing b33 can catch them off guard...also i have no problem hitconfirming to spin, and if i do miss it, i usually go an throw em.

not to mention, its a good tool vs low hitbox characters as well. i b33 mileena all day (when im not spinning her of course)

 

[OutworldKeith]

This is a 6-4 MU, but is a very winnable 6-4. It's slight advantage in KL's favor due to his mobility, and fast/safe pressure. The only reason this is not a 7-3 is probably because Scorp gets more opportunities to punish opposed to his other 6-4s, and he punishes Lao HARD! The key to this MU is to turtle. Advancing on KL is similar to trying to rush-down Cage with Scorp...your simply making the MU easier for him. When you turtle you have to counter his every attemp to get in.

Ground Game:

Full-screen: Scorpion gets the better of KL from full-screen distance. KL loses the projectile war because the Hellfire trade is in Scorp's favor. He won't be able to build meter safely from far range, so you won't be fighting at full-screen all too often. KL also has some of the best mobility in the game! His Tele~3, Dive Kick, and F3 roll will allow him to close the distance at the drop of a dime. You should always be prepared to counter his efforts to advance on you. Scorp can effectively defend against all 3 of his advancing options by forward dash blocking, and reacting to the move he used.

Mid-screen: This is Scorp's ideal range in this MU, but your ability to read your opponent will be tested heavily at this distance. KL becomes a mixup at this range. He can alter his jump by using Tele~3 in the air to throw off your AA. He'll use this a lot to discourage you from AAing to get the free jip, which will allow him to easily pressure. F3 roll is also a mixup. On block it's -4, and can be d1 checked. However, he can cancel into Spin for a free combo, so you have to make the correct reads. Scorp needs to keep KL at this distance. Even though KL has plenty of mixups, he still can't pressure/build meter.

Close Range: The most dangerous range in this MU. Because of KL's mobility you'll find yourself at this range the most in this MU. KL has every advantage possible at this range. The only time you want to be at this range is when your pressuring/building meter. Your main tool to escape his pressure is d1. I personally like to follow up with d4 to get some extra space. Your goal is to GET THE HELL AWAY!!!
X-ray:
Once KL has 3 bars it instantly changes the MU to 7-3. This is the best X-ray in the game for obvious reasons. It allows KL to shut down all of Scorp's offense and counters. More importantly, it makes up for his lack of useful mids, and allows him to recklessly pressure.
Punishment:
Spin: ,+ combo
Spin:
Hat Toss/Low Hat: Hellfire Trade| Spear| ,~Spear (on block)
Dive Kick: + combo
Dive Kick:
Teleport: Forward dash +
Teleport: Spear
,,+: Spear/Takedown after blocked