I will NOT play at Final Round...

[CrimsonShadow]

KL bro.. GTFO if you think a Kenshi is gonna beat me...
and CrimsonShadow your chess system will not work because players like myself will be very low seeds because of how many events I missed(6) because of not being able to compete at MLG.

We already though about that, and the solution is to have results decay over time.. Meaning that recent results should take priority over older ones. A top8 placement a year ago shouldn't be considered as highly as one from last week.

So if we agreed as a community to include older results, their values would decay somewhat -- so you wouldn't be completely unseeded, but it wouldn't count as highly as recent placement.

We all know you're still very good; but from an objective, unbiased viewpoint, you should have to prove that again against the current cast of top players if you're gone for 6 months. Which you did at NEC, so that'd be the first step.

Anyway, seeing as how I'm not really biased as to how it should work one way or the other, I'm flexible and open to diff. possibilities for the time window we use. My only conern is that it be fair, relevant, and as non-subjective as possible.

And I'm convinced that if this is done right, and proves to be a good example, it'll eventually end up being adopted by the FGC as a whole, outside of MK.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

i just dont think we need a "ranking system" to do brackets. why does NO OTHER game need this?

Hey Tom, any serious 1v1 sport does it this way.. Chess, Tennis, etc. In all of those sports you are seeded in your next tournament based on how you've performed in previous tournaments.

And really team sports are no diff.. You get into the NFL playoffs by how you've performed against other teams. So whether you call it standings, rankings, or something else, every serious sport uses this to seed tournaments and playoffs.

If we want our sport and game to be taken seriously, then we need to adopt a more professional way to seed than having 1 person arbitrarily determine who they think are the best players. Imagine if the NFL decided to have a top player who didn't make the playoffs decide which teams he thought should be seeded where.

In general, there are 3 factors to consider that make a fair seeding:
1) Wins (Who you've beaten)
2) Losses (Who's beaten you)

and then the possible addition of 3) Geographic location

Simple and very straightforward, with not much room for tampering.

 

[Simon Wayne]

I can see it now, everyone thinks that Tom Brady has thrown in the towel. But then just as Reo is about to take another tournament, two doors come flying open, and Tom Brady arrives, ready to xray that bitch

 

[BillStickers]

We already though about that, and the solution is to have results decay over time.. Meaning that recent results should take priority over older ones. A top8 placement a year ago shouldn't be considered as highly as one from last week.

So if we agreed as a community to include older results, their values would decay somewhat -- so you wouldn't be completely unseeded, but it wouldn't count as highly as recent placement.

We all know you're still very good; but from an objective, unbiased viewpoint, you should have to prove that again against the current cast of top players if you're gone for 6 months. Which you did at NEC, so that'd be the first step.

Anyway, seeing as how I'm not really biased as to how it should work one way or the other, I'm flexible and open to diff. possibilities for the time window we use. My only conern is that it be fair, relevant, and as non-subjective as possible.

And I'm convinced that if this is done right, and proves to be a good example, it'll eventually end up being adopted by the FGC as a whole, outside of MK.

Rating decay is unnecessary considering that Elo naturally inflates over time. Real talk: Tom is a special case in regard to the rating system. You cannot base your system around cases like his. Besides, if you're using a true Elo rating system, then Tom's rating should have a k-factor large enough (due to his few number of tournaments) that his rating would jump a lot due to his recent win at NEC.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Rating decay is unnecessary considering that Elo naturally inflates over time. Real talk: Tom is a special case in regard to the rating system. You cannot base your system around cases like his. Besides, if you're using a true Elo rating system, then Tom's rating should have a k-factor large enough (due to his few number of tournaments) that his rating would jump a lot due to his recent win at NEC.

This is true, but the main factor here is that you have to tweak the ELO correctly due to the small number of matches people play. So for example, as a Chess player I'd be considered provisional until I play 20 matches or so.. But by the time you complete 20 matches as a tournament MK player, you could have won 2 major events and been ready to go on vacation (PL).

So, we just have to make sure the forumla is adjusted correctly to reflect the number of top tourney matches MK players play in a few-month timespan. Otherwise if you use the normal ELO, it'd make sense to include slightly older results, but have the decay.

But either way like I said.. The system wouldn't favor Tom's old results over recent ones. We all know that Tom is playing well, but if we take our personal opinions out of it, he should have to show that he is still currently playing at a high level in current tournaments to be ranked as highly as people who currently are. And NEC was a great 1st step in that direction.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Hey Tom, any serious 1v1 sport does it this way.. Chess, Tennis, etc. In all of those sports you are seeded in your next tournament based on how you've performed in previous tournaments.

And really team sports are no diff.. You get into the NFL playoffs by how you've performed against other teams. So whether you call it standings, rankings, or something else, every serious sport uses this to seed tournaments and playoffs.

If we want our sport and game to be taken seriously, then we need to adopt a more professional way to seed than having 1 person arbitrarily determine who they think are the best players. Imagine if the NFL decided to have a top player who didn't make the playoffs decide which teams he thought should be seeded where.

In general, there are 3 factors to consider that make a fair seeding:
1) Wins (Who you've beaten)
2) Losses (Who's beaten you)

and then the possible addition of 3) Geographic location

Simple and very straightforward, with not much room for tampering.

This can't work in a system where the players DON"T have to attend.... then want to be considered top or whatever.

At a certain point.... everyone has to agree that the only thing that matters is "region" and "teams".
Everything else has to be random to be fair. End of story.

 

[EVB SomeCubanGuy]

I have full faith in the Atlanta guys running brackets. Pig Of The Hut and everyone else did an excellent job of running things last year if you ask me, and I'm pretty sure he knows who the top players are, NFG Rankings or not. All you have to do to prevent what happened at NEC is just get tougher on the scheduling. If players are registered by whatever time they were given, then tough shit, you're not competing. Doesn't matter who you are. Same thing if you don't show up to your pool on time, you get a DQ just like everyone else. Whoever will be in charge of pools just has to be strict with that shit, and I have confidence that the Atl guys will do their job just fine. Plus, EVERYONE wants to see you compete Tom. I agree with Pig I think this thread is pretty childish. I understand your concerns, but taking matters into your own hands and not competing isn't the solution.

 

[BillStickers]

This can't work in a system where the players DON"T have to attend.... then want to be considered top or whatever.

Why should anyone allow that to happen now? The only reason it does is because of bias, which is exactly what this system tries to avoid.

 

[LolingOctopus]

Looks like I dodged 100 hours of work! Fuck yeah!

ps: when's final round btw? If there's one major I really want to attend beside evo it's FR. I've been yapping about it since summer hahaha

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Why should anyone allow that to happen now? The only reason it does is because of bias, which is exactly what this system tries to avoid.

the system has bias towards those who can travel and those that can't.
not fair. If EVERYONE could make EVERY tourney.... then you'd be fine. Even if someone only missed one, two a year. But.... that doesn't happen. Dizzy is a top top player. Dude doesnt go to EVERY major event. Not because he doesn't want to .... but because he cannot.

it takes all the "guess work" out. We KNOW where you come from.... we KNOW what team you're on. You can move people into spots where they'd only play if they made it so far.

Randomizing pools takes all guess work out. If you're good.... it won't matter.

 

[PND OmegaK]

 

[Tom Brady]

i say no ranking system.. no other FGC does it. you dont need to re-invent the wheel. just do it like its always been done. its fine the way it is..


and LBSH... I am OBVIOUSLY going to compete. This thread was made to show just how dumb it is that we need to have special provisions to run a fucking bracket now. Keep things the way they always were.

 

[Phase 3]

and LBSH... I am OBVIOUSLY going to compete. This thread was made to show just how dumb it is that we need to have special provisions to run a fucking bracket now. Keep things the way they always were.

Glad to see you're going to compete; being Batman just doesn't suit you anyway.

It's far greater to have your back blown out than your spirit.

 

[NB Semi Evil Ryu]

Glad to see you're going to compete; being Batman just doesn't suit you anyway.

It's far greater to have your back blown out than your spirit.

I foresee this gif being used a LOT on this website in the future....

 

[ShinBlanka]

SMH

Pre registered players are seeded
At door registration receives NO treatment of being seeded including reo, me,. cd jr, whoever
Shin Blanka plans to seed by using recent top 8 placements w NFG top 20 and everything else is randomized by location

I fail to see the issue here

IMO it sounds better than anything ever of recent history other than MLGs

Pig is correct. I was going to use the NFG rankings and then after that seed players on region. No one will be seeded if you sign up on site period. If you don't give the event the respect to pre reg so we can properly make the brackets a week in advance then you should blame yourself when you play agaist your homie in the 1st round.


I would like to thank everyone that used the early bird special online registration. You helped our event with signing up early so we can properly start to make the pools in advance! MORE NEWS TO COME! FR16 will be the biggest and hypest FR to date! STAY TUNED SHAWTY!

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

My one question

At what point is "walk up registration" just unacceptable?

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

I don't think anyone should be seeded. All that does is help the same ppl make top 8 every tourney. The entire thing should be randomized once the regions are split up the best they can into different pools. Then put everyone in that pool in a hat and draw for opponents.

you won't be facing your teammate most likely bc they'll be in a different pool. And if you're good, you'll make it out no matter your opponent.

 

[ShinBlanka]

with that said hardly anyone pre reg..................... I see where this is going and unfortunately the brackets/pools are going to be f'ed up because of you guys, not me. I told y'all the rules and it's funny that THE ONLY TOURNAMENT the majority of people pre reg for online is MLG or EVO. Maybe I need to stop allowing at the door reg's because this is becoming a real problem. Players need to Start taking responsiblity of holding up tournament at teh start of the event. If you have at least 40 lazy players sign up at the door with 128 man tournament you just f'ed over everyone because to make the brackets "SO CALLED BALANCED AND FAIR" you have to redo the whole f'ing brackets from the ground up if the tournament game is on the same day of onsite reg's!!!!

If everyone would do the proper steps before hand these things could be avoided, but i feel the easy way out is to blame the brackets and how they was made when you lose and won't take ownage of the fact that most of the time 1/2 of any fg scene only pre reg's online and only half of those guys do it before the last week before the event. Players got added last year last minute because they didn't pay online but wanted to be seeded and felt the brackets was bias. Cry foul play but everyone didn't sign up online. Some that complained were not on the online reg list. Who was in the wrong?

I know it's not always easy to attend events and people don't want to commit to an event badge + game if they don't have a way there 100%. I will say that I will use the NFG rankings up to the top 20 for those that attend for the top spots in pools and the rest will be random select due to region. If people can't agree on how the brackets should be made that is the best way to have a neutral bracket made. Top 20 ranked get seeded and the rest are random. I just don't think it's fair to try to discredit pigs proformance at FR15 on brackets. We all see he is a top 5 player in the usa now! I think people needs to look at all of the angles before just poppin off on an issue that can be solved if everyone work together and make sure at least 90% players sign up online for FR16.

 

[CptXecution]

ShinBlanka

I'm sure as it gets closer to the event people will sign up. It's the MK way, but those who don't, it's on them, we've all been made aware of how things will work for FR16...good shit Shin, keep up the great work.

 

[ShinBlanka]

I can do it all random also. F that worrying about a team mate. You're going to have to fight them anyways if you both continue to win. Obviously we don't live in that type of fighting game scene sir that people would want to play in a totally random bracket.

 

[Tom Brady]

seeded by NFG....... already a terrible idea

 

[STORMS]

When it comes down to it... we're never going to make EVERYONE happy. I'm going to do whatever I can to help with the brackets at Winter Brawl.

 

[ShinBlanka]

people complained in other games at FR15 because we started late, but when you have 250 sign up online and then 150 walk up at the door it makes you want to pull your hair out because your brackets you made are useless toilet paper. So it's my fault for allowing at he door reg or it's the players fault for making sure they do their part to have the event run on time. I hate to take an option away and treat players like children, but I might have to go the evo mlg route in the future if this continues.

 

[ShinBlanka]

well what's the solution?

 

[ShinBlanka]

when you guys get one let me know because I want it to be fair and you guys agree on it, but if it can't be agreed upon then i'll follow my plan of NFG ranking and regional seeding only.