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Tech Tom Brady's Raiden and Instant Air Superman

4x4lo8o

Warrior
Tom Brady posted a Raiden video recently and I think it brings up a lot for discussion


Instant air superman - this isn't exactly new tech, but Brady thinks it's underused. I think it's really good in certain matchups, but it can get you blown up too. I use it against Sonya sometimes, but her uppercut is insane and can knock you out of it and then she's on your ass again d4ing you as you get up. Maybe it's better than I've given it credit for though, I'm definitely going to experiment with it some more. I wasn't using it in both directions the way Brady does and can't specifically remember seeing anyone else do it. I'm sure someone's explored it more than I have. Do any other Raiden players use this? Is it actually new tech? Even if it isn't, has it been overlooked? Is it good, or is it just a gimmick that won't last once the opponent figures it out?

Raiden has no match ups worse than 5-5 and goes even with Sonya - I think this is almost true and with the exception of the Sonya match up I think most of Raiden's bad match ups might actually be even. I personally don't think Kung Lao or Cage is necessarily worse than 5-5, and even Kabal I could see being almost even. I know when I lose to Kabal(I got knocked out by a Kabal player at Dallas) I usually feel like it's due to my own lack of skill and experience more than it is over coming a bad match up. Sonya, on the other hand, is bad. I honestly can't even say I think the match up is 6-4, it feels 7-3 to me. I think Tom Brady will end up changing his mind on this one. On the other hand I would absolutely love Tom to show this is a 5-5 and make me eat my words.
I think B W1zZ thought Raiden had no bad match-ups for awhile, but he his most recent chart had at least 2 matches that were disadvantage for Raiden and no other Raiden player I know of thinks Raiden lacks bad match ups. Does anyone agree with Tom? Can a change in playstyle fix Raiden's bad match ups?

Turtle Raiden vs Aggressive Raiden - Tom Brady is proud of his real estate on Turtle Beach and thinks this is what will let him revolutionize the character and show his true potential but the two most successful and high profile Raiden's recently - Perfect Legend and our own B W1zZ - both play highly aggressive Raiden's. Is lack of patience rather than tools or tech what's keeping us from seeing more Raiden's in high level play? or have B W1zz and PL got the character figured out and it's something else keeping the character from placing well at tournaments?

Tom Brady is going to pick up Raiden after NEC - don't lie, you're as hyped about this as I am. Love him or hate him, Tom's going to be a big asset to the Raiden community and it's exciting to see another high profile player give the character some love. Or will he quit the character after two weeks again? Will we see the usual drama and blow-ups that follow Tom Brady everywhere come out of this?
 
I am pumped, I want to play this character very badly, but I'm hitting a road block, maybe something I see Tom do will enlighten me.
 

Perfect Legend

Kombatant
raiden is at his best when he has life lead also the way people have seen me play raiden in tournaments is not how hes supposed to be used. I have been rather rusty with him spending more time on other chars.
 

4x4lo8o

Warrior
raiden is at his best when he has life lead also the way people have seen me play raiden in tournaments is not how hes supposed to be used. I have been rather rusty with him spending more time on other chars.
So what is the way he's supposed to be played and is Tom Brady going to be effective at showing us?
And why have you played him differently? Is "how he's supposed to be played" not synonymous with "the best way to play him"?

did you just said raiden goes even with sonya? you must be out your mind
Tom Brady said that he might. I personally don't think that's an even match up, and I think I stated that pretty clearly in the first post
 

NKZero

Warrior
I don't see how a character that loses 2 MU's at most cannot be in the top 10. Also those bad MU's are to two of the best characters in the game in Sonya and Kabal.

He has a move in teleport that forces opponents to change their play style, he is the best turtle among other things. It's about time people realise just how good this character is.

Also that instant air superman stuff is interesting....never thought much about it. It's not foolproof but it will open up some options for sure, especially if you use the ambiguous one where you don't know whether he'll superman to the right or to the left.
 

4x4lo8o

Warrior
I don't see how a character that loses 2 MU's at most cannot be in the top 10. Also those bad MU's are to two of the best characters in the game in Sonya and Kabal.

He has a move in teleport that forces opponents to change their play style, he is the best turtle among other things. It's about time people realise just how good this character is.
The thing is that losing to two of the best characters in the game is almost worse than losing to two worse characters. You're going to see a ton of Sonyas and Kabals at tournaments, it sucks to lose those match ups. If your losing match ups are Kano and Cyber Sub or something, you're golden. You aren't going to run into those characters.
At Dallas I only played Sonyas and Kabals. It was fun :confused:

Of course you're right that if he only loses two match ups and most of the cast also loses those two match ups then it doesn't make sense to say he's below a bunch of characters who lose those two match ups plus more.
Most people thinks he loses a lot more than two matches. Jax, Kung Lao, Cage, and others all commonly get listed as losing match ups for Raiden. Whether he actually loses those or it seems that way because of lack of high level representation is hard to say.

I don't for sure if he's the best turtle, but I agree with you about his teleport. My favorite thing about Raiden is how he can force the opponent to play his game. His teleport makes it so you just do not have to deal with the other characters bullshit. They have to adjust to you, you can really make them work.
 

4x4lo8o

Warrior
Can't Kabal IABG on reaction and spin you for free when you try that stuff?
When you do IASuperman? Probably. He doesn't even need to IAGB, he can just spin you. Lots of characters can punish whiffed superman, that's why he's using Sonya. It's for certain matchups, primarily ones where you're just trying to stay out
 

NKZero

Warrior
The thing is that losing to two of the best characters in the game is almost worse than losing to two worse characters. You're going to see a ton of Sonyas and Kabals at tournaments, it sucks to lose those match ups. If your losing match ups are Kano and Cyber Sub or something, you're golden. You aren't going to run into those characters.
At Dallas I only played Sonyas and Kabals. It was fun :confused:

Of course you're right that if he only loses two match ups and most of the cast also loses those two match ups then it doesn't make sense to say he's below a bunch of characters who lose those two match ups plus more.
Most people thinks he loses a lot more than two matches. Jax, Kung Lao, Cage, and others all commonly get listed as losing match ups for Raiden. Whether he actually loses those or it seems that way because of lack of high level representation is hard to say.

I don't for sure if he's the best turtle, but I agree with you about his teleport. My favorite thing about Raiden is how he can force the opponent to play his game. His teleport makes it so you just do not have to deal with the other characters bullshit. They have to adjust to you, you can really make them work.
Yeah but we are basing it on theory, not how often Kabal and Sonya feature in tournament. The point is, his only two bad MU's (Jax, KL, Cage etc. are no way bad MU's.) are against good characters so it strengthens his position near the top. The only reason he isn't higher on the tier list is because he doesn't dominate many match-ups against good characters (goes even with most).

Anyways yeah you said it correctly. The teleport forces the opponent to play Raiden's game.
 

coolwhip

Master
Can't test this right now. Can someone please answer if some characters can punish this on reaction:

For example, Sub Zero with a slide/ex slide, Cage with a red kick, Kabal with NMD, Kitana with instant ass, etc...?
 

4x4lo8o

Warrior
Can't test this right now. Can someone please answer if some characters can punish this on reaction:

For example, Sub Zero with a slide/ex slide, Cage with a red kick, Kabal with NMD, Kitana with instant ass, etc...?
I can't test until later either, but I know for sure that Reptile can punish with a double dash and Kabal can punish with Nomad Dash. I'm pretty sure Cage can punish with a kick and Ermac can punish with push. The recovery on Electric Fly on whiff isn't that good, lots of characters can punish if they react quickly

Edit: Raiden can punish with superman
 

4x4lo8o

Warrior
I'm pretty sure raiden beats jax goes even with cage and kung lao. Might beat KL to be honest with you.
Who would you say his losing matches are? Kabal and Sonya

What do you think of the Sonya MU? I know you played Blakes Sonya on Sunday at Dallas. You made it look better than it feels everytime I play that mu
 

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Instant air superman is ok at best. It's a decent tool against a few characters if you have a life lead, but I haven't found much of a use for it other than that. Sometimes you can superman RIGHT over the top of some characters' projectiles and hit them since the hurt box for superman is somewhat large. But this isn't game changing. I dicked around with it for awhile and it never seemed to work too well. Just like Tom said, it's an option and it's true that most people aren't going to be expecting it. It can be ambiguous as to which direction you're going to go so if it works it works, but I wouldn't rely on it to win.
 

Flagg

Champion
I've dabbled with Raiden before. I'm still convinced the character is better than the community realises. He has great wall carry abilities, can escape pressure and corner pressure which is quite a big deal, and can run away quite easily. He also has one of the best whiff punishers in the game in B3.

He's quite a complete character, he has nothing all together over the top but he has something for nearly any situation.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
I look forward to more videos from tom being a sub player that just recently (a couple weeks) has decided to really put time in to raiden as well.