My Personal Tier List

[GGA HAN]

There's a reason you can't use pure Cyrax to win a major. It's because his bad match ups are extremely common tournament picks and he's not 2nd.

He loses 3-7 to Kabal and Smoke. Then he loses 4-6 to Sonya, Freddy, Sektor, Liu, and Kitana. Kitana is probably 4.5-5.5 than 4-6, but you guys get the point. Also I don't care if xx beat 16bit's Kitana with Cyrax. Shut up, match up played properly is ass for Cyrax.

I agree that smoke beats cyrax, although not as bad as you have it (4-6). I still to this day cannot get Wafflez to even consider this MU is in smokes favor...

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

Maxter is just a fucking monster. Super smart player, he deserves more props than Cyrac.

True but there was GGA HAN and others that repped Cyrax also...I remember someone commenting in the stream that it was the 4th Cyrax match in a row we saw. All I'm saying is that if offline is the test for MU's then MLG gave people more than enough opportunity to see what Cyrax can do at high-level play.

 

[DJ L Toro]

Good thing we haven't dedicated an entire thread where everyone exhausted this joke. Anyway, on the Bradycast, he concedes that Kung Lao is top 10 (says he is in the 7-10 range, which I disagree with anyway...he's higher).

no he said 7 guys beat lao and that he's maybe 10 if you dont count cyblax or human sektor

 

[coolwhip]

no he said 7 guys beat lao and that he's maybe 10 if you dont count cyblax or human sektor

At 9:25 of the video, after Brady says "you don't think Kung Lao is a top 5 character", Perfect Legend says, and I quote: "he's at least seven," then corrects himself to "at most seven."

 

[DJ L Toro]

At 9:25 of the video, Perfect Legend says, and I quote: "he's at least seven."

at least meaning the best spot he can be considered.

 

[coolwhip]

at least meaning the best spot he can be considered.

Yeah, no shit. Which is why I said in my earlier post: " he concedes that Kung Lao is top 10 (says he is in the 7-10 range, which I disagree with anyway...he's higher)."

When you're in the 7-10 range, that means 7 being the best spot you can be considered and 10 being the worst. Meaning I was absolutely correct regarding what PL said.

I know you like correcting people's English a lot, but in this case, I understood just fine.

 

[DJ L Toro]

Yeah, no shit. Which is why I said in my earlier post: " he concedes that Kung Lao is top 10 (says he is in the 7-10 range, which I disagree with anyway...he's higher)."

When you're in the 7-10 range, that means 7 being the best spot you can be considered and 10 being the worst. Meaning I was absolutely correct regarding what PL said.

I know you like correcting people's English a lot, but in this case, I understood just fine.

eh, he doesnt sound convinced though. it's fine either way.

 

[Tom Brady]

Cyrax is NOT a 2 mistake character, he is a 1 mistake character.

1 combo w/1bar = 88% plus you get brought down to the ground and are at a strike/throw mix up for the win. He is only a 2 mistake character with 50% unbreakable damage.

 

[redeyes]

S+ tier
Reo
CD JR
Maxter
Pig
Tom Brady
dizzy

^ my tier list

 

[w1nter warz]

Thanks for asking, people hardly ask for eachothers opinions and get mad right away.

My thoughts:

between each string 21,/24/1121 you can poke. yes lao can use d3 on you but the problem here is he cant make use of that advantage because standing 2 doesnt hit mid, so even if he is at +10 you can still poke him out of his standing 2 pressure and you will be back into your advantage again. Your d4 is +16 on hit, so you have the option to get a block string hitconfirmable into net, or the command grab, both are deadly options. basically a lao player hitting you with a d3 doesnt really mean anything.

PL knows this and thats why he spins, so its not random, he is trying to blow up your pokes. However the lao player can do 21,21212 instead of 21,21 so if you try to poke after the second 21 you will get hit by the 21212 hitconfirm into spin, because you expected the string to finish at just 21. However I doubt you have seen anyone use 21212 this way, because I am probably the only lao that uses this currently, haven't seen jr or PL do this at all.

also 2121 is hard to punish on block for a lot of characters but you can always get your block string and you have that command grab to use because kung lao is stuck in that position so he has to block your strings or tech your grab.

also if the lao player tries to follow up his d3 on hit with b33spin, just cross him over,the hitbox on b33 is horrible so it will whiff.

No problem, it is always good to hear other views and in the end could lead to new ideas and solutions.

Lao players will mix up with d4 until they think you will start blocking low. d4 is great, but most of us can tech command grab on reaction (of course there will be times where pple won't but this is considering the matchup at its highest level). Block string pressure is good but not amazing.Most of cyrax block strings are neutral on block and his fastest standing normal is 9f so lao doesn't need spin and can use 2,1 block pressure to get offensive.

I understood that Pl was trying to blow my pokes up but there was no reason to because he had no meter to break and during the rounds where he would try, I had exhibited no sign of attempting to poke out and was letting him finish my strings. If he thinks I am going to poke,just block low then I will be at disadvantage. Also, in NYC Jr ,Reo,me use 21212 hit confirm to spin but I do agree with you that I do rarely see it on stream or in tourny.

I am also scared of crossing over lao because that spin is ready to anti air me lol. He doesn't need that =P.

Cyrax players still have to be mindful of the spin because it is a move that can blow up pokes and since cyrax has no armour except on the air portion of the air grab, cyrax players have to rely on pokes to get out of pressure.

These options that lao players use are too risky in the cyrax matchup. I understand neutral crouch is useful for rax, but leaving yourself open like that is dangerous imo. Lao should be fighting cyrax off frame advantage and chip if they want to fight up close. I feel that in the end there are a lot of things both characters can do to counter each other and it will come down to who can read better. I just feel that if a certain style is going to be used on cyrax with lao, it is the style that relies on block pressure and doing air mixups with teleport rather than divekicks and punishing poke attempts with spin.

 

[Big Pampering]

No problem, it is always good to hear other views and in the end could lead to new ideas and solutions.

Lao players will mix up with d4 until they think you will start blocking low. d4 is great, but most of us can tech command grab on reaction (of course there will be times where pple won't but this is considering the matchup at its highest level). Block string pressure is good but not amazing.Most of cyrax block strings are neutral on block and his fastest standing normal is 9f so lao doesn't need spin and can use 2,1 block pressure to get offensive.

I understood that Pl was trying to blow my pokes up but there was no reason to because he had no meter to break and during the rounds where he would try, I had exhibited no sign of attempting to poke out and was letting him finish my strings. If he thinks I am going to poke,just block low then I will be at disadvantage. Also, in NYC Jr ,Reo,me use 21212 hit confirm to spin but I do agree with you that I do rarely see it on stream or in tourny.

I am also scared of crossing over lao because that spin is ready to anti air me lol. He doesn't need that =P.

Cyrax players still have to be mindful of the spin because it is a move that can blow up pokes and since cyrax has no armour except on the air portion of the air grab, cyrax players have to rely on pokes to get out of pressure.

These options that lao players use are too risky in the cyrax matchup. I understand neutral crouch is useful for rax, but leaving yourself open like that is dangerous imo. Lao should be fighting cyrax off frame advantage and chip if they want to fight up close. I feel that in the end there are a lot of things both characters can do to counter each other and it will come down to who can read better. I just feel that if a certain style is going to be used on cyrax with lao, it is the style that relies on block pressure and doing air mixups with teleport rather than divekicks and punishing poke attempts with spin.

this is true I think almost the whole community is not experienced in teching grabs, and I have to say I am not good at it. 21212 is his best tool in this matchup imo. maybe it isnt in cyrax's favor. thanks for the knowledge, I will do my homework for the matchup.

 

[Zoidberg747]

this is true I think almost the whole community is not experienced in teching grabs, and I have to say I am not good at it. 21212 is his best tool in this matchup imo. maybe it isnt in cyrax's favor. thanks for the knowledge, I will do my homework for the matchup.

I dont get what is so hrad about teching grabs. I am a mediocre player but I almost always tech grabs. It is much easier to tech in MK than in other games imo.

 

[LEGEND]

i wouldnt say huge outrage now lol but none the less i still feel im totally correct on what i said and given reasons why i think so.
when u look at both chars tools,i dont see how stryker could come out on top

when u say your personal MU# with them do u mean if u did up numbers for baraka/stryker or how your chars mu#s are against them?

1man3letters just quoting this post for context.

as someone who can play both Stryker and Baraka at a high level or even possibly THE highest level and have played these characters against very solid comp at EGP. Stryker is a good number of characters worse than Baraka

Pig Of The Hut . Just my 2 cents i guess

PS: Kano and Jade > Stryker and Sheeva

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

1man3letters just quoting this post for context.

as someone who can play both Stryker and Baraka at a high level or even possibly THE highest level and have played these characters against very solid comp at EGP. Stryker is a good number of characters worse than Baraka

Pig Of The Hut . Just my 2 cents i guess

PS: Kano and Jade > Stryker and Sheeva

Damn dat low tier debate

 

[1man3letters]

1man3letters just quoting this post for context.

as someone who can play both Stryker and Baraka at a high level or even possibly THE highest level and have played these characters against very solid comp at EGP. Stryker is a good number of characters worse than Baraka

you play baraka? thats news to me
if ya play at EGP you should post some stuff baraka videos thread,they stream alot,correct?
ya know maybe post at all in THE baraka forum

 

[Illmatix]

i hope you guys know the rawest matchup is ermac vs cyrax. tons of fun.

 

[Runiix]

and just today, i thought about practicing abit with Jade /:
but i can see she is not very versatile, and her dmg isnt exactly the highest lol