My Personal Tier List

[REO]

That's an interesting way to look at a tier list

I think most times it depends on the bracket but there are characters who fare better than most

Outside kabal few characters can do it on their own. I believe in most cases kenshi and Lao can and cyrax except for the kabal pool of death

Overcoming 1 3-7 or 2 4-6 MUs isn't completely a reason to say a character can't win a major by himself

When you have everyone and their mother playing Kabal at tournaments, it's harder than you would think. Also there is no way the 2nd BEST character in this game is that far behind Kabal. If that is the case and they're truly top two, then Kabal needs to be moved to SS+ tier immediately. You know it's terrible balance when the second best character in the game is miles behind the the first.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

When you have everyone and their mother playing Kabal at tournaments, it's harder than you would think. Also there is no way the 2nd BEST character in this game is that far behind Kabal. If that is the case and they're truly top two, then Kabal needs to be moved to SS+ tier immediately. You know it's terrible balance when the second best character in the game is miles behind the the first.

Whose ur top 5?

 

[coolwhip]

there's one (other) thing wrong with this list:
according to Perfect Legend Kung Lao is not top 10

Good thing we haven't dedicated an entire thread where everyone exhausted this joke. Anyway, on the Bradycast, he concedes that Kung Lao is top 10 (says he is in the 7-10 range, which I disagree with anyway...he's higher).

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

Methinks you have Sheeva too high!

 

[Tom Brady]

there are terrible MU's BUT that doesnt mean you cannot overcome them. I hate hearing that a 4-6 is set in stone. dont play a 4-6 in tourney or its a guaranteed loss.

The Sub-Zero vs sonya MU is ONLY considered even by some because of my ability to make a 4-6 look 5-5. how can this be, arent 4-6's free losses? hasnt pig beaten KL's in tourney with kenshi and mileena? how can this be? a 2-8 and 4-6 MU and yet still he won?

Now, I agree on the 2-8 MU being LOL, but 4-6's and 3-7's can be overcome by player skill. sometimes its a matter of finding something that changes things in the MU.

the issue with the bad MU's is that at a BIG tourney you have to overcome these MU's many many times. hence, the more bad MU's = the harder it is to win, this is REO's point.

 

[Relaxedstate]

What character other than cyrax can u not make mOre than 1-2 mistakes and win?

Kitana has that damage output factor...a couple 50% will do you in. Granted it is not as much as Cyrax, but it is still 2 mistakes and death for sure

 

[Big Pampering]

w1nter warz good points man

You cant just 21,21 pressure cyrax, he really cant pl know this and tries to blow pokes up with spin. the reason winterwarz thinks 21,21 cdjr's method is better because he doesnt know lao cant do that.

 

[Axel_Redd]

I know right? It shows just how devastating Raiden is when teleport is used correctly. Not to add to the fact that Raiden excels at holding a life lead and loses very few MU's. In fact, he loses as few MU's as S tier characters but he just doesn't win as many (has more 5-5's).

the teleport makes Raiden the ultimate baiter.

 

[Lulzlou]

Kitana has that damage output factor...a couple 50% will do you in. Granted it is not as much as Cyrax, but it is still 2 mistakes and death for sure

In a way Ermac and Rain can be an example depending on the mistake but clearly not as good.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

there are terrible MU's BUT that doesnt mean you cannot overcome them. I hate hearing that a 4-6 is set in stone. dont play a 4-6 in tourney or its a guaranteed loss.
The Sub-Zero vs sonya MU is ONLY considered even by some because of my ability to make a 4-6 look 5-5. how can this be, arent 4-6's free losses? hasnt pig beaten KL's in tourney with kenshi and mileena? how can this be? a 2-8 and 4-6 MU and yet still he won?
Now, I agree on the 2-8 MU being LOL, but 4-6's and 3-7's can be overcome by player skill. sometimes its a matter of finding something that changes things in the MU the issue with the bad MU's is that at a BIG tourney you have to overcome these MU's many many times. hence, the more bad MU's = the harder it is to win, this is REO's point.

Going slightly off topic Lao is by far Kenshi worst MU

That shit could easy be 2-8 at best 3-7 but if kabal is 3-7 there's no way in hell Lao is 3-7, kabal is a f ing cakewalk compared to a pro Lao

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Jade is not the worst character. Kenshi RAPES her super bad, but other than that, she's pretty good.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

If the worst thing that happens in this thread is a huge outrage over stryker one slot over baraka then ive done one hell of a job lol

Based on my personal MU #s with both

I was about to ask the same thing about Stryker less than Baraka on the list but not out of disagreement just surprise,..I'll say though that I agree with the list and yes Cyrax is that broken,..about time someone admitted it

 

[Axel_Redd]

I was about to ask the same thing about Stryker less than Baraka on the list but not out of disagreement just surprise,..I'll say though that I agree with the list and yes Cyrax is that broken,..about time someone admitted it

he might be broken, but still not top 2....

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

he might be broken, but still not top 2....

Idk man,..I mean, MLG Dallas was quite convincing lol

 

[AREZ God of War]

When you have everyone and their mother playing Kabal at tournaments, it's harder than you would think. Also there is no way the 2nd BEST character in this game is that far behind Kabal. If that is the case and they're truly top two, then Kabal needs to be moved to SS+ tier immediately. You know it's terrible balance when the second best character in the game is miles behind the the first.

My mother doesn't play Kabal....

there are terrible MU's BUT that doesnt mean you cannot overcome them. I hate hearing that a 4-6 is set in stone. dont play a 4-6 in tourney or its a guaranteed loss.

The Sub-Zero vs sonya MU is ONLY considered even by some because of my ability to make a 4-6 look 5-5. how can this be, arent 4-6's free losses? hasnt pig beaten KL's in tourney with kenshi and mileena? how can this be? a 2-8 and 4-6 MU and yet still he won?

Now, I agree on the 2-8 MU being LOL, but 4-6's and 3-7's can be overcome by player skill. sometimes its a matter of finding something that changes things in the MU.

the issue with the bad MU's is that at a BIG tourney you have to overcome these MU's many many times. hence, the more bad MU's = the harder it is to win, this is REO's point.

^^^^ this is really good shit, Bill. Thank for explaining this type of thing. It's not always obvious to people. It's like the odds inside the odds of beating the odds determine W/L as well as the MU odds vs player odds. It's a funny catch-22.

In a way Ermac and Rain can be an example depending on the mistake but clearly not as good.

Either I'm an idiot or you didn't explain that good enough lol. What? Kitana vs Ermac/Rain?

 

[Chongo]

My mother doesn't play Kabal....


^^^^ this is really good shit, Bill. Thank for explaining this type of thing. It's not always obvious to people. It's like the odds inside the odds of beating the odds determine W/L as well as the MU odds vs player odds. It's a funny catch-22.


Either I'm an idiot or you didn't explain that good enough lol. What? Kitana vs Ermac/Rain?

No, he was relating how you can really only make two mistakes against Rain/Ermac because of their damage output, similar to Kitana.

 

[Axel_Redd]

Cyrax is a combo spammer O:, He's a no good cheater O:<< he is F tier or the Fuck You tier!

 

[STRYKIE]

The Sub-Zero vs sonya MU is ONLY considered even by some because of my ability to make a 4-6 look 5-5. how can this be, arent 4-6's free losses? hasnt pig beaten KL's in tourney with kenshi and mileena? how can this be? a 2-8 and 4-6 MU and yet still he won?

I completely get your point here but this example is meh, isn't the matchup closer to Sub's favour if we had to choose anyway? Pig blows up Kung Lao because he realizes when someone's drive to play KL is only looking for a piss easy win against Kenshi and otherwise do not understand the intricacies of the character.

When you have everyone and their mother playing Kabal at tournaments, it's harder than you would think. Also there is no way the 2nd BEST character in this game is that far behind Kabal. If that is the case and they're truly top two, then Kabal needs to be moved to SS+ tier immediately. You know it's terrible balance when the second best character in the game is miles behind the the first.

This is why we can't feasibly have a rank for rank tier list for MK9, too many players place characters based on their own personal inadequacies.

 

[Rokinlobster]

Idk man,..I mean, MLG Dallas was quite convincing lol

Maxter is just a fucking monster. Super smart player, he deserves more props than Cyrac.

 

[w1nter warz]

You cant just 21,21 pressure cyrax, he really cant pl know this and tries to blow pokes up with spin. the reason winterwarz thinks 21,21 cdjr's method is better because he doesnt know lao cant do that.

I would like to hear your thoughts on 21, 21 vs cyrax. I personally think he can do 21,21 ,24 mixed in with wing chun. I know I can duck 2(I use d4 to counter it if i think they will do 2) but why risk that to get out of pressure when lao has d3 which is +10 on crouch hit or <-b3 that leads into a full combo. Ducking can just lead to more frame disadvantage. Wing chun is hard to punish and I have seen no cyrax player consistently punish it. I only got it once or twice when I played pl. Normals on lao are way better then cyrax's normals and that is where kung lao makes it 5-5 (that and his mobility).

 

[GGA Wafflez]

CYRAX
































is exactly where he should be

 

[Axel_Redd]

I would like to hear your thoughts on 21, 21 vs cyrax. I personally think he can do 21,21 ,24 mixed in with wing chun. I know I can duck 2(I use d4 to counter it if i think they will do 2) but why risk that to get out of pressure when lao has d3 which is +10 on crouch hit or <-b3 that leads into a full combo. Ducking can just lead to more frame disadvantage. Wing chun is hard to punish and I have seen no cyrax player consistently punish it. I only got it once or twice when I played pl. Normals on lao are way better then cyrax's normals and that is where kung lao makes it 5-5 (that and his mobility).

 

[AREZ God of War]

No, he was relating how you can really only make two mistakes against Rain/Ermac because of their damage output, similar to Kitana.

oh yea true man. higher damage after 50% definitely gives an advantage, but if u ask me, 2 -mistake character is a 2-mistake character, it's just a matter of how much effort needs to be exerted to land those 50%'ers.

 

[Death]

Might as well finish listing my personal tier list

S
1. Kabal
2. Cyrax
3. Kenshi
4. Sonya
5. Lao

A+
6. Freddy
7. Smoke
8. Reptile
9. Cage
10. Jax

A-
11. Liu Kang
12. Kitana
13. Scarlet
14. Sektor
15. Mileena
16. Shang
17. Raiden

B
18. Ermac
19. Quan
20. Sub Zero
21. Scorpion
22. Rain
23. Noob

C
24. Sindel
25. Nightwolf
26. CSZ
27. Baraka
28. Stryker
29. Sheeva

D
30. Kano
31. Jade

Looks solid pig. Only a few changes I think.

Sindel up to B.
Ermac up to A
Skarlet up to A+
Freddy up to S
Reptile down to A
Kitana up to A+

What do you think?

 

[Big Pampering]

I would like to hear your thoughts on 21, 21 vs cyrax. I personally think he can do 21,21 ,24 mixed in with wing chun. I know I can duck 2(I use d4 to counter it if i think they will do 2) but why risk that to get out of pressure when lao has d3 which is +10 on crouch hit or <-b3 that leads into a full combo. Ducking can just lead to more frame disadvantage. Wing chun is hard to punish and I have seen no cyrax player consistently punish it. I only got it once or twice when I played pl. Normals on lao are way better then cyrax's normals and that is where kung lao makes it 5-5 (that and his mobility).

Thanks for asking, people hardly ask for eachothers opinions and get mad right away.

My thoughts:

between each string 21,/24/1121 you can poke. yes lao can use d3 on you but the problem here is he cant make use of that advantage because standing 2 doesnt hit mid, so even if he is at +10 you can still poke him out of his standing 2 pressure and you will be back into your advantage again. Your d4 is +16 on hit, so you have the option to get a block string hitconfirmable into net, or the command grab, both are deadly options. basically a lao player hitting you with a d3 doesnt really mean anything.

PL knows this and thats why he spins, so its not random, he is trying to blow up your pokes. However the lao player can do 21,21212 instead of 21,21 so if you try to poke after the second 21 you will get hit by the 21212 hitconfirm into spin, because you expected the string to finish at just 21. However I doubt you have seen anyone use 21212 this way, because I am probably the only lao that uses this currently, haven't seen jr or PL do this at all.

also 2121 is hard to punish on block for a lot of characters but you can always get your block string and you have that command grab to use because kung lao is stuck in that position so he has to block your strings or tech your grab.

also if the lao player tries to follow up his d3 on hit with b33spin, just cross him over,the hitbox on b33 is horrible so it will whiff.