Question Follow up attacks for f2?

[Illmatix]

yea i used this today as a defensive tool against cage, it works wonders especially at the start of the match.
but could you please answer this , is sweep-lift a frame trap and could you follow sweep with iafb?
if so it seems some of his best presure tools are f2 sweep u4 and iafb.

 

[Illmatix]

Ermac cannot really pressure effectively to be honest. Against some crouch blocking characters the 1 in 312 will whiff. If they are stand blocking then go for it. You could go for B114 stutter strings if you really have them respecting F2 on block. Or if you wanna continue zoning, just throw them full screen....that's probably the best option.

on charcters that 1 wiffs on i usually go for 312 or 312 lift, once they respect 312 you can follow up with d1 and continue pressure.
if they attempt a counter poke and u have a read d1 lift their ass

 

[Qwark28]

if you get hit its a free jip/blockstring pressure/grabs.
damage wracks up.

d3 is +5 on crouch hit and it hits like this more then you think.

trust me on this, iafb is the way to go with ermac.
i can tell you every reason to keep using iafb, but its something you just need to see.
if you keep respecting the iafb, i get grabs and free pressure.
it works the same way cages f3 works.
i use this now and it is working

what if i block it? cant i punish it? i play online and rarely fight ermacs so i have no idea, i need to hit metzos up for csuals

 

[zaf]

yea i used this today as a defensive tool against cage, it works wonders especially at the start of the match.
but could you please answer this , is sweep-lift a frame trap and could you follow sweep with iafb?
if so it seems some of his best presure tools are f2 sweep u4 and iafb.

No sweep~lift is not a frame trap. You cant cancel off sweep.
Sweep will take 2 frames off lift and make it a 11 frame move. But there are still tons of things that will stuff this.
Iafb after sweep is much better. Iafb is 10 frames, and sweep is +2. Making iafb a 8 frame move.
Iafb beats pokes, so sweep iafb would be something that would have to be blocked.

 

[zaf]

what if i block it? cant i punish it? i play online and rarely fight ermacs so i have no idea, i need to hit metzos up for csuals

No if done low enough iafb is not punishable, and i can do another one.

 

[Qwark28]

No if done low enough iafb is not punishable, and i can do another one.

then why isnt sub ermac 7 3 in macs favour? iafb avoids d4 and 22 is 2 slow

 

[zaf]

then why isnt sub ermac 7 3 in macs favour? iafb avoids d4 and 22 is 2 slow

i dont know, this match up has not been played like this yet.
i was playing with j360s sub yesterday. ill play it again and reincorporate this against sub.
i have a feeling iafb pressure will change some match ups.

 

[NKZero]

on charcters that 1 wiffs on i usually go for 312 or 312 lift, once they respect 312 you can follow up with d1 and continue pressure.
if they attempt a counter poke and u have a read d1 lift their ass

No man I mean the 1 in the 312 string whiffs (highlighted in red). If that whiffs a character can poke out before the 2 comes out.

 

[NKZero]

Wrong.
Ermac might have bad pressure with block strings, but using iafb like cages knee is his new meta game.
This will make him 100% better and this is something people will not know how to deal with.

You can counter poke a d1/d3 with iafb.
If you land a d3 on opponents crouch, iafb is a frame trap becoming a 3 frame move.


One of your best options after a f2 will be iafb.

- Doing this becomes another frame trap. Iafb is 10 frames and f2 is +4 on block. So this makes iafb a 6 frame move.
- can not be poked
- should not be able to be jumped out of, if you do it right.
- only armor should beat this.

Iafb becomes a move like cages knee. You can keep applying pressure with this as it beats pokes by going over them.
You can repeat iafb a few times. So like F2 -> Iafb -> Iafb. This has to be respected.

If it hits them because they tried to do something, then the stagger from the iafb becomes like cages nutpunch allowing for a free jip or blocking string pressure. This also allows you to dash in and just repeat an iafb.

Once your iafb is respected, just dash in and do blockstrings or go for grabs. Also use D4 with iafb play.
D4 on hit, your best follow up is 121. This hits them at the max range of 121 and if d4 hits the 121 needs to be respected.
D4 on hit is +12 and 121 is 10 frames. SO this is another frame trap. Its ridiculous how often 121 lands after a D4 on hit.
if 12 hits, just cancel into TKS instead of the last hit of 121. If 121 hits the whole thing and you didnt lift, go for an iafb.
Iafb after a blocked 121, can be avoided by dashing back and that is all ( besides armor).
Even then it has to be a fast dash back as ermac can do a forward iafb, propelling him forward a little and covering more range.

Thank you for the elaborate post.

But iaFB is not a pressure tool. It's a spacing tool. If it hits yeah you get the nut punch "effect" where you can dash in and continue pressure or whatever you wish. On block it sends the opponent pretty far back and if you keep getting predictable with it, opponents will find ways around it and punish you. All I was stating is that with +4 advantage Ermac cannot do much except get you to respect things, especially against a low hit-box character. You make a good point about the iaFB pretty much being unavoidable, but that's crouch block able, so what d'you do next time? Throw. Maybe go for a risky TKP/TKS, which is what I stated earlier anyways.

 

[zaf]

Why isnt it a pressure tool?
Who said it cant be?

After an iafb on block you can do a forward iafb and still catch people.
If you are using it like cages knee you shouldn't need to worry about being predictable.

Ermac already is based off a lot of throws because of how tkp and tks work. Using iafb up close works well with what he already does.

 

[zaf]

Who cares if you can block iafb. Half the time that's what ermac wants you to do.

 

[NKZero]

Why isnt it a pressure tool?
Who said it cant be?

After an iafb on block you can do a forward iafb and still catch people.
If you are using it like cages knee you shouldn't need to worry about being predictable.

Ermac already is based off a lot of throws because of how tkp and tks work. Using iafb up close works well with what he already does.

So I cannot avoid the forward iaFB after the initial one?

 

[Owerbart]

IMO you should mix things up.

· FU*KING U4

· d3 (or d1, even dash-d4) into lift Extremely risky, but pays off if your opponent isn't aware of the check. If you get the lift try to go for a full combo and don't try this again, because it's highly unprobable that your opponent falls in the same trap twice.

· dash back, either another dash or a push (Normal path) This is what you should try the most. I love ermac's strings and in fact his rushdown is somewhat underrated, but if you want to go safe this is the best option.

· iafb (aggresive path) This is more likely to be used for more pressure, if you get blocked, then dash back and try to get a push when they stop blocking. If you hit them, get the chance for a 121 string, since it will leave you at neutral and you can go back to zoning.

·Am I the only one considering a jump-in after a f2? If they read iafb, most of the times you get a free jump in.

 

[Illmatix]

No man I mean the 1 in the 312 string whiffs (highlighted in red). If that whiffs a character can poke out before the 2 comes out.

exactly, ihave rarley been poked out of 312 on a charcter that 1 wiffs on, only if they catch me going for 31312, but on really low hitbox chars, it dosnt matterwhat you do because 2 wiffs. also, you can just do 3 tks.

 

[NKZero]

exactly, ihave rarley been poked out of 312 on a charcter that 1 wiffs on, only if they catch me going for 31312, but on really low hitbox chars, it dosnt matterwhat you do because 2 wiffs. also, you can just do 3 tks.

Oh right yeah if you feel risky and think they'll try and interrupt. Fair enough.

 

[Illmatix]

Oh right yeah if you feel risky and think they'll try and interrupt. Fair enough.

i really think if you want to keep ermac powerful in a match you have to take somekind of risk to make them somewhat afraid to escape his traps.

 

[Illmatix]

imho

 

[MKF30]

yea i used this today as a defensive tool against cage, it works wonders especially at the start of the match.
but could you please answer this , is sweep-lift a frame trap and could you follow sweep with iafb?
if so it seems some of his best presure tools are f2 sweep u4 and iafb.

The air blast is definitely good for keep foes honest, and if it hits the stun gives you options. I've been doing that since day one, one trick I like to do that also works is do that then buffer the TK push before you land on the ground with Ermac, so the second he hits instant TK push lol. This trick works a lot but you don't see it often, it's great for keeping people far especially when spaced out right from mid screen to far what it does is makes your foe block then they dash ya have to release block they get hit or if they try to jump they'll get hit. His U4 sucks though, too slow. I really wish they gave him a faster, decent overhead...

 

[Illmatix]

i love his overhead, could be faster though. i think its great cuz its safe

 

[MKF30]

i love his overhead, could be faster though. i think its great cuz its safe

Yeah, that's what I mean man lol. If it was WAY faster it would be so much better. At least it's safe, imo that's the one good thing about it. I think they should have sped that up to 7 or 6 frames and given him at least one armored move on ex tk push or have his ex teleport safe like Scorpion's on block, man that would have helped him a ton lol

 

[Illmatix]

lol i have said all those things too

 

[Illmatix]

ex port is his best wake up if you think theyre gonna pressure

 

[zaf]

So I cannot avoid the forward iaFB after the initial one?

Yes.
At least so far from testing / playing.