The LGBT Thread

[DJ L Toro]

There could also be plenty of reasons why being straight could be bad, the point is that LGBT are human beings and deserve to be treated as such.

why is being strait bad. name one stigma. heterosexuality is a requirement for humanity to continue to exist, therefore it will always be the norm and will be socially preferred. Also, as a side note that should be interesting to consider: how should humans be treated? why is humanity good? these questions ought to be answered (at least for yourself) when making such a claim. i think you'll find that the answers arent so obvious as they may seem

Exactly. GLBT clearly makes more sense than LGBT

Honestly that's just how i heard it first. There are all kinds of different acronyms now that take into account different peoples. it's sortof absurd at a certain level actually. My favorite acronym is FABGLITTER. cant remember what all of those mean but they cover different aspects of queerness.

 

[Espio]

People are people, who you would prefer to spend your life with doesn't change anything. Normal is a very relative term.

Tolerance and respect will eventually win...I remember reading about how interrational relationships were outlawed and punished by death many many moons ago...and now we see interracial relationships are not only socially acceptable, but extremely common.

 

[DJ L Toro]

People are people, who you would prefer to spend your life with doesn't change anything. Normal is a very relative term.

Tolerance and respect will eventually win...I remember reading about how interrational relationships were outlawed and punished by death many many moons ago...and now we see interracial relationships are not only socially acceptable, but extremely common.

extremely common might be a bit much. there's still definitely a stigma to that too. It's really dumb what culture does because when you think about it we're taught to dislike those who are different. you dont see babies discriminating or kindergarteners using sexual, racial, ethnic, interracial, size based, etc slurs.
I think it's problematic that we even refer to "interracial couples" as that or "gay couples" as that, but things like heterosexual intraracial couples are just called couples. Our need to label will always demonstrate an inherent amount of prejudice that we ascribe to our culture. I have always suggested discarding unnecessary qualifiers like obama being a "black president," ellen degeneres being a "lesbian comedian," "plus size" models, etc. That's probably the best shot for any sort of real acceptance: not when we see the other as acceptable but when we see our fellow human beings as not other.

 

[Espio]

extremely common might be a bit much. there's still definitely a stigma to that too. It's really dumb what culture does because when you think about it we're taught to dislike those who are different. you dont see babies discriminating or kindergarteners using sexual, racial, ethnic, interracial, size based, etc slurs.
I think it's problematic that we even refer to "interracial couples" as that or "gay couples" as that, but things like heterosexual intraracial couples are just called couples. Our need to label will always demonstrate an inherent amount of prejudice that we ascribe to our culture. I have always suggested discarding unnecessary qualifiers like obama being a "black president," ellen degeneres being a "lesbian comedian," "plus size" models, etc. That's probably the best shot for any sort of real acceptance: not when we see the other as acceptable but when we see our fellow human beings as not other.

It is really common I see it all the time where I live in Michigan. I'm speaking of my experiences and perspective, things are different in different parts of the world and country. Things in Montana are not the same as here in Michigan or how things are in Texas.

I'm not labeling it for any other reason other than to explain couples of different races, a descriptor is necessary for the example I gave, not to put emphasis on labels as being important.


People who are ignorant will persist in their ignorance with or without labels, but as us being all people, we should be judged on our actions and merits, not on our physical or sexual traits/interests etc.

 

[Sage Leviathan]

It wont be forgotton, but the practice of immorally labeling will be left in the past.

 

[DJ L Toro]

It is really common I see it all the time where I live in Michigan. I'm speaking of my experiences and perspective, things are different in different parts of the world and country. Things in Montana are not the same as here in Michigan or how things are in Texas.

I'm not labeling it for any other reason other than to explain couples of different races, a descriptor is necessary for the example I gave, not to put emphasis on labels as being important.

People who are ignorant will persist in their ignorance with or without labels, but as us being all people, we should be judged on our actions and merits, not on our physical or sexual traits/interests etc.

Fair enough, i cannot say your local experience is wrong, lol.
I'm not saying that YOU label because you discriminate, but that in the label there is an inherent root of prejudice. you dont see a male-female couple labeled as anything more than a couple (unless there are other aspects of discrimination (the word simply means to identify in a differentiating way) to be applied such as interracial). I think in order for that mindset to shift that needs to be true of male-male and female-female couples (i dont understand the "other" but them too) as well.
and i dont think it's true that people will hate regardless because they will literally not know what to think. If a gay couple is simply a couple the human mind cannot reject it because a rejection of the idea of a couple in the abstract is absurd. my point is that we need to unlearn prejudice and make sure younger generations do the same. The point of getting rid of labels is not to have some meaningless linguistic trick but to teach future generations as well as ourselves that we can fully conceptualize the world without inherently excluding groups of people.

It wont be forgotton, but the practice of immorally labeling will be left in the past.

hopefully.

Also as a side note i hate the "gay marriage" label for the same reasons as above. but that's not on the actual topic of GM so please people dont start talking about that. that very quickly goes bad

 

[ETC AdmiralAugustus]

Playpal :3

Things Montana are not the same.....

Whatchu know about Montana?!

 

[rev0lver]

I think it's problematic that we even refer to "interracial couples" as that or "gay couples" as that, but things like heterosexual intraracial couples are just called couples. Our need to label will always demonstrate an inherent amount of prejudice that we ascribe to our culture. I have always suggested discarding unnecessary qualifiers like obama being a "black president," ellen degeneres being a "lesbian comedian," "plus size" models, etc. That's probably the best shot for any sort of real acceptance: not when we see the other as acceptable but when we see our fellow human beings as not other.

I agree to this a little bit actually. I lived in Raleigh until I was about 8 years old, and went to an elementary school where whites were pretty much the minority. I remember I didn't even think about peoples' ethnicities when I thought about them because I didn't see any reason why it mattered. Then I moved to white suburban Pittsburgh where people would be like "hey look a black kid" and it was weird at first, but I'll admit after a while I started to label people the same way.

It reminds me a little bit of that South Park episode with the racist flag though. There's no reason why we should perceive or treat people of a different race or sexual orientation differently, but at the same time we do have to recognize some things. For example, how far we've come as a society that we can even have minorities in high political positions, that high-profile individuals can be open about their sexuality without fear, etc.

Also as a side note i hate the "gay marriage" label for the same reasons as above.

I agree. It's only necessary to use that in the context of political discourse. But I would kinda take it the wrong way if I were getting married to a man and someone referred to it as a "gay marriage". It's as if the love two people of the same sex show for each other is somehow lesser than with those of opposite sexes.

 

[Zoidberg747]

extremely common might be a bit much. there's still definitely a stigma to that too. It's really dumb what culture does because when you think about it we're taught to dislike those who are different. you dont see babies discriminating or kindergarteners using sexual, racial, ethnic, interracial, size based, etc slurs.
I think it's problematic that we even refer to "interracial couples" as that or "gay couples" as that, but things like heterosexual intraracial couples are just called couples. Our need to label will always demonstrate an inherent amount of prejudice that we ascribe to our culture. I have always suggested discarding unnecessary qualifiers like obama being a "black president," ellen degeneres being a "lesbian comedian," "plus size" models, etc. That's probably the best shot for any sort of real acceptance: not when we see the other as acceptable but when we see our fellow human beings as not other.

Do you not remember your buddy hitting on that black lady last night? Her husband was white....so its not like it doesnt exist in Texas.

Just had to bring that up lol.

 

[DJ L Toro]

It reminds me a little bit of that South Park episode with the racist flag though. There's no reason why we should perceive or treat people of a different race or sexual orientation differently, but at the same time we do have to recognize some things. For example, how far we've come as a society that we can even have minorities in high political positions, that high-profile individuals can be open about their sexuality without fear, etc.

anthropologists and biologists have a general consensus that race and ethnicity do not exist (they are a false concept that our culture has developed to segregate), and that roughly 10% of all animals on earth of every species may be gay, so why is it that only homo sapiens "the rational animal" thinks about these things? only humans treay other groups of humans differently because their skin is a different shade of brown or because they have sex with the same gender (also a fuzzy topic, there's apparently like 6 or 7 different identified genders). Because of that i dont think it's right to say we've come far at all. back when discriminating between "whites" and "coloreds" was the thing gay was a near non-issue (note: sodomy was problematic but noone knew about it because it was people's own business, they didnt parade around shouting "im gay fuck your tradition"... ). before then we had aristocratic discrimination (still sorta do but it's based on the ability to acquire capitol which everyone has just most dont know how), before then regional (greeks/mongols/african), before that it was just tribes and we were basically kids in a play pen. as time goes on we find more and more things to hate about other people claiming that's the next group we're going to include, but in order to make that claim we must start seeing them as other.

Do you not remember your buddy hitting on that black lady last night? Her husband was white....so its not like it doesnt exist in Texas.

Just had to bring that up lol.

I remember my friend hitting on a lot of people including the OU fan with har family, the waitress, the chick running the tournament, and the girl in the red dress. he claims he was just asking the lady for music suggestions and stuff got blown out of proportions before he knew what was happening. I'll sortof believe him on that because i've never seen him be rude to anyone ever, but eh. lol, who gets 86ed from a bar during a gaming tournament?

 

[Hemlock]

I posted my coming out note here: http://testyourmight.com/threads/hemlocks-friendship-thread.23682/

... That's not quite true. what is true is that there isnt a legitimate argument that OUGHT TO BE MADE against it. I think there are plenty of reasons that being GLBT would be bad, but they're just disrespectful to people and are never received well (therefore never achieve any purpose).

I think there are plenty of valid arguments as to why somebody wouldn't want to be LGBT or reasons why they don't like gay people, but there aren't any valid arguments as to why it is morally wrong and why gay people shouldn't be allowed to peacefully co-exist and be afforded equal rights/fair treatment.

 

[Hemlock]

gay was a near non-issue (note: sodomy was problematic but noone knew about it because it was people's own business, they didnt parade around shouting "im gay fuck your tradition"... )

I am assuming you mean that gay was not an issue in the public domain, because there were still closeted gay people around back then. the new thing is that more people are being open and honest about it, and more people are standing up (gay/straight) in defense of equality.

 

[DJ L Toro]

I posted my coming out note here: http://testyourmight.com/threads/hemlocks-friendship-thread.23682/
I think there are plenty of valid arguments as to why somebody wouldn't want to be LGBT or reasons why they don't like gay people, but there aren't any valid arguments as to why it is morally wrong and why gay people shouldn't be allowed to peacefully co-exist and be afforded equal rights/fair treatment.

True, the phrasing in the original post was people supporting the glbt community. there are plenty of reasons against that (including, technically, what i've been saying. i claim labeling glbt community is problematic and more discriminatory than just trating people as people).

And on it being closeted in the past vs open now, in the past it was a non-issue. it isnt until we had the gay label that it became problematic. check the greeks and romans, mongols, egyptians, etc. they all have text indicating love for other individuals of the same gender. it wasnt gay, just love. they might even have a wife, but they still "loved" certain male friends. I would be interested to check the etymology of "homosexual" and see where and when the idea first took form.

 

[Hemlock]

True, the phrasing in the original post was people supporting the glbt community. there are plenty of reasons against that (including, technically, what i've been saying. i claim labeling glbt community is problematic and more discriminatory than just trating people as people).

Oh - yes I totally get you now. My friend made a post in support of my coming out note and said, "I hope one day everyone can be as easy going and relaxed about this as we are about eye color" and I really thought that was a great point. I never think of "my blue eyed friend Jim" I think of him as "Jim" and he also has blue eyes. First and foremost, he's Jim.

I guess the one problem is that people "can't see" my "blue eyes". Most people assuming I'm straight, so that's why I actually have to take the time to explain things. It'd be different if all gay people had blue hair or something..........blue hair would be sweet.

Yeah, it would be awesome to see society at large calm the heck down and take a deep breath about this all. Less segregation and more integration. My buddy last night was telling me that she was really proud of me for coming out because she said that it was part of the process of helping everyone take a step back and reevaluate their judgements and assumptions.

Very glad i've got a TYM family who's got my back.

 

[DJ L Toro]

Oh - yes I totally get you now. My friend made a post in support of my coming out note and said, "I hope one day everyone can be as easy going and relaxed about this as we are about eye color" and I really thought that was a great point. I never think of "my blue eyed friend Jim" I think of him as "Jim" and he also has blue eyes. First and foremost, he's Jim.

I guess the one problem is that people "can't see" my "blue eyes". Most people assuming I'm straight, so that's why I actually have to take the time to explain things. It'd be different if all gay people had blue hair or something..........blue hair would be sweet.

Yeah, it would be awesome to see society at large calm the heck down and take a deep breath about this all. Less segregation and more integration. My buddy last night was telling me that she was really proud of me for coming out because she said that it was part of the process of helping everyone take a step back and reevaluate their judgements and assumptions.

Very glad i've got a TYM family who's got my back.

Exactly!
The only thing is i dont agree with integration because that requires that certain people be other and then accepted. I think we need to get rid of the idea of otherness altogether or prejudice will still be there. we (i'm "strait," for those who care) can "accept" "gay people" all we want, but as long as we veiw them as "gay people" and not just people there's still going to a prejudice that makes true integration just about impossible.
I'll give you an example, my best friend (the only label im willing to give him) enjoys sex with dudes and not chicks. im not willing to call him gay anymore though (and he agrees) because his identity is not limited by that. He is simply my friend and the only (non family) man i love.

 

[SZSR]

bumping for visibility.

 

[Mikayel]

oh there is an lgbt thread here

 

[xWildx]

And we probably all main a female and want Ivy ^_^

 

[Mikayel]

And we probably all main a female and want Ivy ^_^

lmao such a stereotype
That is so not true
I do main Harley and Sindel in MK9 (WTF) lol

 

[Hemlock]

*checks*

...yep, still gay

Actually, I recently wrote and mailed out a letter to my parents confronting them on some issues, one of them being their less-than-supportive reaction to my coming out years ago. Hope to make some progress on those relationships!

 

[Zatoichi]

And we probably all main a female and want Ivy ^_^

I think I'm the only gay guy that doesn't main a female, in any fighting game....

Street Fighter - Vega
Soul Calibur - Mitsurugi, Raphael, Yoshimitsu
UMvC3 - Wesker, Chris, Doctor Strange, Rocket Raccoon, Dormammu, Doctor Doom, Magneto
Mortal Kombat - Kano, Nightwolf, Kenshi, Rain, Shang Tsung
Street Fighter x Tekken - Vega, King, Yoshimitsu, Kuma, Lei Wulong
Tekken - Sergei Dragunov, King, Armor King, Lei Wulong
Injustice - Green Arrow, Joker, Bane, Zod

.......

 

[xWildx]

I think I'm the only gay guy that doesn't main a female, in any fighting game....

Street Fighter - Vega
Soul Calibur - Mitsurugi, Raphael, Yoshimitsu
UMvC3 - Wesker, Chris, Doctor Strange, Rocket Raccoon, Dormammu, Doctor Doom, Magneto
Mortal Kombat - Kano, Nightwolf, Kenshi, Rain, Shang Tsung
Street Fighter x Tekken - Vega, King, Yoshimitsu, Kuma, Lei Wulong
Tekken - Sergei Dragunov, King, Armor King, Lei Wulong
Injustice - Green Arrow, Joker, Bane, Zod

.......

I don't know what to do with you.

 

[rev0lver]

I think I'm the only gay guy that doesn't main a female, in any fighting game....

I hate female chars actually. The only reason I played Kitana in mk9 was because of her playstyle. My favorites were either considered low tier at the time or were overly-represented.

I don't get the obsession with female characters from gay guys. I like men lol. That's why I'm gay I guess. Maybe some gay people relate themselves more to females but it's something I don't get myself.

 

[Duck Nation]

I am jealous of gay men and straight women playing fighting games. Straight dudes get a couple token females (barring DOA, but lol, DOA), whereas the girls and gay dudes get a smorgasbord of THAT ASS.

I'm glad this thread got bumped, because I feel privileged to read the posts from Mr. Mileena, Under the Mayo, Hemlock, and, well, frankly everyone. I'm a straight man who's completely gender-normative, but I try the best I can to be a straight ally. It's a moral imperative on the part of those society deems "normal" to use their position to engender equality.

 

[Hemlock]

ha, I don't main female characters, but I do like to main chubby older male characters whenever possible.

SFxT: Bob, I'm looking at you! I love that he says that he has the "perfect body" - I agree!