The portrayal of LGBTQ characters

[Espio]

I don't mind lengthy reads if the content is legit and this posts was absolutely brilliant, I felt lie I was reading a professor's lecture on a current day issue, but with a very empathetic twist to it.

I think everything you've conveyed in your post is spot on and I can only think of a few exceptions to your very well thought out and eloquent post.

The only time I've ever see a bisexual character portrayed in a positive way was on the show South of Nowhere, it was a girl named Ashley, she was loyal and kind but had a ton of faults like being a troublemaker at school and skipping. She felt human and authentic, while still being portrayed in a positive way.

Degrassi's Marco Del Rossi I though had a lot of good qualities as they didn't simply focus on his sexual orientation, he suffered from gambling addiction and other issues, as the first gay character on the series, they definitely portrayed a lot of the struggles of being gay as he was the target of a hate crime. Degrassi actually portrayed his relationship with a recurring character very well, the hand holding and intimacy you referenced in your post was there.

The movie Shelter was a great movie for the LGBT community because the emphasis was on family and love, it was a story that anybody could relate to and the two male characters weren't stereotypes, they were just regular guys that grew up together and ended up loving each other as adults, it was about college and not giving up on your dreams despite your responsibilities and social pressures, it's one of the only gay themed movies that I've ever seen that I felt anybody could immediately relate to whether they were gay, straight, bi etc.

Another really funny portrayal is th character Max on the show Happy Endings, I love this character because he's literally just a dude who loves video games, immaturity etc, he just happens to be gay and I like his portrayal because it puts emphasis on how gay guys are similar to straight guys instead of the differences, it's like the MK community here, we have gay, bi and straight guy, we all have a commonality, but diversity shouldn't be swept under the rug keep in mind, just saying that what we have in common can be a unifying force.

 

[rev0lver]

If you quote my post, make sure you go into detail and support your claim. I don't buy into this whole "You're wrong and I don't have to explain why" theory people seem to have on the internet. You need to go into detail, support what you say w/ data concluded scientifically (but hopefully NOT from "experimentation" LOL) You need to do it the right way by including the "what, why, how, etc". If I say someone is wrong about something you can bet MONEY I have supporting claims to back up what i say, not just arbitrary references.

I made a response in the same way you made your first post, with a lack of objective reasoning and support. Arez, please take a lesson from the OP on how to make a qualified statement before you miserably fail at the "one-up" card.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

My thing is, I shared my opinion on the matter and they seem to want to CHANGE my opinion into their opinion rather than respecting my opinion for what it is. Isn't the purpose of this thread based on opinion and people attempting to get OTHERS to respect their opinion? How can you GET without GIVING?

I understand, definitely. I just think you've been given a bad impression of those who fall under such orientations as compared to the majority, who a very large deal of the time turn out to be perfectly respectable, upstanding, good-hearted people.
I think. I'm pretty sure that's what I'm trying to say. Too much debating today. My head feels crispy.

 

[SunnyD]

Those are all interesting OPINIONS.



AGAIN....interesting OPINIONS.

Interesting even MORE that you both seem to think it's ok to "Play God" and know whether or not what was intended. Don't play God and don't alter the natural state of things. You might as well just say it's ok to kill also.....same principle. How do you KNOW that wasn't what they were intended to be?

I dont. I dont have the slightest clue. My whole argument was that it seems that you do.

 

[rev0lver]

How about just accepting what you are and the way you were made to be. Hermaphroditic creatures are found all throughout numerous species in nature.....you don't see them being ashamed of what they are.....it's actually an evolutionary success to ensure the reproduction of their species.

This is because other creatures are incapable of higher-level thinking. The problem with discouraging transgenderism is that the repression of one's gender identity can lead to a variety of metal disorders (such as depression). They don't get sex changes just because they think it'd be fun. For these people, their gender identity is a part of their self, much like sexual identity, whether they want to feel like the opposite gender or not.

 

[crosstalk]

I just had to post this.

 

[RunwayMafia]

As an openly gay young man I can say this with a sense of profound respect and intelligence; I personally think people need to just be comfortable with themselves and stop worrying who is attracted to who. And this goes towards out homosexuals. I have yet, in my 26 years on this Earth, to meet a heterosexual male that came up to me and said " Hi, I'm Scott, and I'm a proud Hetero, deal with it!".

I have more straight guy friends than I do gay guy friends (well maybe it's even) but they have never had a problem with me due to the fact that I'm just like them, except for what I'm attracted to. They are secure in their sexuality and thus they aren't intimidated or feel awkward hanging out with me. However on that same note, BEING GAY DOES NOT DEFINE MY BEING. I'm not rubbing it in other peoples faces...being rude, crude, and walking around with a chip on my shoulder.

I am not offended by mere words like "[ban incoming]" or "queer" or whatever. They are mere words and mean nothing. I think in order to thrive in this realm known as Earth or adulthood, you need a thick skin. That goes towards all aspects of life. I just know waaaay too many people who are "offended" or "disgusted" by the silliest little things.

All in all, I just can't stand it when a group of people, even if it's my own, feels the need to be "in your face" or walk around with a chip on their shoulders. Believe or not, straight/gay/ or bi, your sexuality does not define you. It is a small fraction of who you are and who you should be! Muah

 

[AREZ God of War]

This is because other creatures are incapable of higher-level thinking.

False. That statement is ignorant and inaccurate and it's also biased and based on nothing. Primates, Cetaceans, even FISH and REPTILES have shown intricate thought process and problem-solving intelligence, strong maternal care and tight family untis, etc...the list is unending....the fact is that we don't KNOW what they are capable of. You need to obtain proper facts before posting something like that.

I dont. I dont have the slightest clue. My whole argument was that it seems that you do.

Did u think before you posted? Having a sex change or altering the way you came into this world IS AN ACT OF PLAYING GOD. It's not open for discussion cuz I just stated the facts. You can disagree all you want and the only end result will just be "you being wrong". You can have an opinion that it is not playing God, but still.....your opinion will be wrong as well. Havent we learned the hard way NOT to fuck with Mother Nature?

@ Espio - Apparently you deleted what was a good post and I just wanted to add that "Yes, all those things you mentioned are unnatural and I am against them". Cars? Why do you think our planet is dying? All the extra shit we have to done evolve and survive is actually what is destroying us. We weren't intended to live like such regardless if do or not. The debate over what is natural and what is not isn't as complicated as some people make it out to be, - it's actually just common sense.....

....unfortunately in this day and age common sense is so hard to come by it actually IS AS COMPLEX as people make it out to be.

 

[rev0lver]

False. That statement is ignorant and inaccurate and it's also biased and based on nothing. Primates, Cetaceans, even FISH and REPTILES have shown intricate thought process and problem-solving intelligence, strong maternal care and tight family untis, etc...the list is unending....the fact is that we don't KNOW what they are capable of. You need to obtain proper facts before posting something like that.

False. They are capable of intricate thought processes, but are not capable of abstract thinking. This is not because we don't know that they can, it is because they literally do not have the neurological structures that produce this ability. It mainly boils down to the foundations of language (not just stimulus and response, as animal "languages" often are). It's not something they can have the ability to comprehend.

And don't think I'm all that ignorant... I'm a vegetarian. I respect the mental capabilities of animals.

 

[Espio]

I deleted the post because I didn't feel like arguing in the thread...I'm not much in the mood for that these days.

I stand by what I said though. I copied my post before deleting it, so here it is I guess...but if you're not going to abandon human comforts that are unnatural the argument is hollow at best

The deleted post is in blue.

When people make arguments about what is "natural" do we ever stop and think of all the unnatural things that are in our lives or how much human meddling exists in nature?

The foods people eat contain unnatural ingredients and dyes, Air conditioning is unnatural and was a human made invention, gene splicing by humans to manipulate crop yields isn't natural evolution of crops(human manipulation again), nor is synthetic fabrics naturally occurring.

Shouldn't people be up in arms about that instead of being up in arms about the lgbt community, especially given that sexuality is natural and varied in other species outside of humans such as Penguins.

When you actually critically breakdown the argument of what's natural, it holds little objective weight, will most humans sacrific their comforts if they fiercely believe that only natural things are right and should be supported? No pasteurized milk, no human made drugs, no cars because humans made them and are thus not naturally occuring.

Humans have been "playing god" to advance their societies and cultures for centuries, where is the outrage at humans wiping out diseases like Small pox? Isn't this messing with evolution and playing god? This is interference as well.

Someone being transgendered doesn't make them unnatural and bad, the only thing that would make them bad is if they caused objective harm like physically harming people or stealing from people, which is something that not all trans people do, but is a human problem regardless of race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation.


The answer is simple, people aren't up in arms about the other things because they in some way are beneficial to the people in question.

 

[AU_IM_DIGIMON]

I never understood the whole transexual/cross gender thing. But that's just me...oh well. I sorta agree with Arez on that one.

But I'd still respect people equally, regardless of what they choose to do or who they "choose" to be.

And for the record, NO...I don't think being gay/bi is a choice.

 

[AREZ God of War]

False. They are capable of intricate thought processes, but are not capable of abstract thinking. This is not because we don't know that they can, it is because they literally do not have the neurological structures that produce this ability. It mainly boils down to the foundations of language (not just stimulus and response, as animal "languages" often are). It's not something they can have the ability to comprehend.

And don't think I'm all that ignorant... I'm a vegetarian. I respect the mental capabilities of animals.

You don't know that. Primates are US....WE are primates....what makes you think we are so much more evolved than our Ape and Monkey brethren? They are clearly more "civilized" than us in many ways. You simply can not make such assumptions unless you ARE one of those species....but you're not. Problem solving intelligence and the ability to use TOOLS doesn't qualify as "abstract way of thinking"??? Get real, Dude. Chimpanzees are smarter than some of the fucking morons on these websites....so are Cetaceans.

 

[SunnyD]

I just had to post this.

Louie CK is the best lmao

 

[Relaxedstate]

@tarkatandenstist
Very well thought out and critical assessment of queerness in the media. I can't tell you how glad it makes me feel, to see someone engaging the community in a very intellectual and productive conversation. You have done your research!!!
One day we will get our media without all the heteronormative

AREZ God of War
I do not respect any of your 'opinions'. They promote ignorance and hate. You oppress people with your ideologies, and your words on this forum offend and deeply disrespect me. I do not respect you. You are an uneducated supremacist. To sum it up: Fuck you.

 

[AREZ God of War]

@tarkatandenstist
Very well thought out and critical assessment of queerness in the media. I can't tell you how glad it makes me feel, to see someone engaging the community in a very intellectual and productive conversation. You have done your research!!!
One day we will get our media without all the heteronormative

AREZ God of War
I do not respect any of your 'opinions'. They promote ignorance and hate. You oppress people with your ideologies, and your words on this forum offend and deeply disrespect me. I do not respect you. You are an uneducated supremacist. To sum it up: Fuck you.

No, FUCK you.

 

[Espio]

As Obi-Wan once said, "so much anger".

You cannot educate everyone and you cannot get everyone to agree with your points, as a gay , black, agnostic libertarian who happens to be going to school to be a law enforcement officer, I gave up on trying to win people over it requires a certain level of energy that I and others could be expending on more productive activities we could be doing with our family, ourselves and friends or for charity or whatever.

If you're a decent person and your actions show it, move on and do not dwell on the contempt other may have.


No matter who you are, there will always be someone who doesn't accept you for your differences. The important thing is that each individual respects and loves themselves so that they may live happy and productive lives and share that love with other people to help out those they care for in their lives or those in need.


Edit: I'm not saying don't try to inform people of new information keep in mind, I encourage knowledge sharing by all.

 

[SunnyD]

Okay AREZ God of War, if you want to have a dogmatic argument, lets do a dogmatic argument.

If getting a sex change is an act of playing god....why does god allow for us mere mortals to have the techniques and abilities to do so? Why, if God is so almighty and powerful, does he allow for us to break his (which are really yours) rules?

Why on earth do you think you know what God intends, or nature intends, or what is natural, or what is unnatural?

How is it, that you can assume that bisexuals are somehow sexually greedy? Just because they are open to both genders, doesnt mean that they chase sex wherever they see it.

This one isnt even a question:

you claim that:

You don't know that. Primates are US....WE are primates....what makes you think we are so much more evolved than our Ape and Monkey brethren? They are clearly more "civilized" than us in many ways

Thats fucking dumb. Human beings have morals, philisophical thinking, higher level emotional thought, and problem solving skills. Apes have instincts. They hungry, they eat. They angry, they beat. Simple as that. That phrase, you stick a thousand monkeys in a room and eventually they'll write the whole works of Shakespeare? That quote is fucking dumb. the chimps would follow thier instincts: procreate and eat. Each other. Granted there are stupid people, but somehow thinking that we are backtracking in evolution; its so depressingly pessimistic that i feel the need to comment.

And yes, i am going to try to change your opinions. Against the advice of a few friends, i am going to try, at least a little, to show you why your thoughts make no sense. Because there's too many ignorant people on this planet already and if i can but just reduce that ever growing number i will feel all the better going to sleep tonight.

Even if you persist in your emotional, illogical arguments like

It's not open for discussion cuz I just stated the facts. You can disagree all you want and the only end result will just be "you being wrong".

Also opinions are never wrong. They arent subjective. You can disagree, but you cant say that it is wrong.

You can have an opinion that it is not playing God, but still.....your opinion will be wrong as well.

Dogma at its best: when you cant win, get angry.

No, FUCK you.

 

[Espio]

As for the topic of religion,I thought the argument was that judgement is for the creator not mere mortals. If I was religious I would not presume to know God's will or plans. It seems a bit arrogant, but this is just my opinion as a casual observer...

 

[rev0lver]

You don't know that. Primates are US....WE are primates....what makes you think we are so much more evolved than our Ape and Monkey brethren? They are clearly more "civilized" than us in many ways. You simply can not make such assumptions unless you ARE one of those species....but you're not. Problem solving intelligence and the ability to use TOOLS doesn't qualify as "abstract way of thinking"??? Get real, Dude. Chimpanzees are smarter than some of the fucking morons on these websites....so are Cetaceans.

No, they don't qualify as abstract thinking. I do know that because we know about the neurological structures of other species. Primates have Broca's and Wernicke's areas in the brain, but they are used for other processes and the human form of it has evolved to encompass language. Without that functioning, they are incapable of abstract thinking. This isn't an assumption, it's reality. Primates are intelligent, as there is much they can understand, but humans are on a separate level.

 

[Mr. Mileena]

Let's not get too personal, wouldn't want this thread to get closed.

I like reading people's perspectives, but let's do it in a civil manner.
Discussions like these are rarely talked about, and it is nice to read up on what people think.

 

[Zoidberg747]

False. That statement is ignorant and inaccurate and it's also biased and based on nothing. Primates, Cetaceans, even FISH and REPTILES have shown intricate thought process and problem-solving intelligence, strong maternal care and tight family untis, etc...the list is unending....the fact is that we don't KNOW what they are capable of. You need to obtain proper facts before posting something like that.



Did u think before you posted? Having a sex change or altering the way you came into this world IS AN ACT OF PLAYING GOD. It's not open for discussion cuz I just stated the facts. You can disagree all you want and the only end result will just be "you being wrong". You can have an opinion that it is not playing God, but still.....your opinion will be wrong as well. Havent we learned the hard way NOT to fuck with Mother Nature?

@ Espio - Apparently you deleted what was a good post and I just wanted to add that "Yes, all those things you mentioned are unnatural and I am against them". Cars? Why do you think our planet is dying? All the extra shit we have to done evolve and survive is actually what is destroying us. We weren't intended to live like such regardless if do or not. The debate over what is natural and what is not isn't as complicated as some people make it out to be, - it's actually just common sense.....

....unfortunately in this day and age common sense is so hard to come by it actually IS AS COMPLEX as people make it out to be.

Saying something is "playing god" is your opinion. You call people out and disregard what they say as "opinion" but most of the stuff you post is opinion. You dont get to tell someone who is depressed and slowly rotting on the inside that they shouldnt change themselves because it was nature's intention. I mean by that logic none of us should get a tattoo. Nature never intended us to put ink into our skin. I find it funny how people find plastic surgery and other things like that fine and then go off on trans-gendereds. What is the difference. Should someone who wants lasic eye surgery not be able to get it because nature INTENDED for them to have bad vision? Should people not be able to get lapband surgery because it is "playing god"?

And all those things are CHOICES. These people ARE BORN WITH THIS FEELING. And yet because you think they are naturally supposed to be a man or a woman, that they have no right.

And their is nothing respectful about your opinion. You basically slandered much of the LGBT community and infused demented stereotypes like "All bisexuals are sex crazed and selfish". That isnt respectful, it is bigoted and very ignorant.

 

[AREZ God of War]

Okay AREZ God of War, if you want to have a dogmatic argument, lets do a dogmatic argument.

If getting a sex change is an act of playing god....why does god allow for us mere mortals to have the techniques and abilities to do so? Why, if God is so almighty and powerful, does he allow for us to break his (which are really yours) rules?

Why on earth do you think you know what God intends, or nature intends, or what is natural, or what is unnatural?

How is it, that you can assume that bisexuals are somehow sexually greedy? Just because they are open to both genders, doesnt mean that they chase sex wherever they see it.

This one isnt even a question:

you claim that:

Thats fucking dumb. Human beings have morals, philisophical thinking, higher level emotional thought, and problem solving skills. Apes have instincts. They hungry, they eat. They angry, they beat. Simple as that. That phrase, you stick a thousand monkeys in a room and eventually they'll write the whole works of Shakespeare? That quote is fucking dumb. the chimps would follow thier instincts: procreate and eat. Each other. Granted there are stupid people, but somehow thinking that we are backtracking in evolution; its so depressingly pessimistic that i feel the need to comment.

And yes, i am going to try to change your opinions. Against the advice of a few friends, i am going to try, at least a little, to show you why your thoughts make no sense. Because there's too many ignorant people on this planet already and if i can but just reduce that ever growing number i will feel all the better going to sleep tonight.

Even if you persist in your emotional, illogical arguments like

Also opinions are never wrong. They arent subjective. You can disagree, but you cant say that it is wrong.


Dogma at its best: when you cant win, get angry.

The only response I'm going to give this compilation of utter ridiculousness and stupid ignorant statements is "I'm not even lowering myself to your level and responding to this compilation of utter ridiculousness and stupid ignorant statements". I am a Biologist in training and have been working in the field of Zoology for over 25 years, The day you can school ME on this shit, is the day I retire. Sorry, I'm still trying to fathom the level of stupidity in that post LOL...the thing you say....lol....idiotic can't describe it...I don't think i have any words that wouldn't be an understatement.

Thanks for proving my point about "monkeys being smarter than some of the morons on these sites". Your last posts proves my theory. Opinions CAN be wrong when a situation doesn't require an opinion. When the situation calls for FACTS, you can take your opinion and shove it up your ass cuz no one wants to hear it.

No, they don't qualify as abstract thinking. I do know that because we know about the neurological structures of other species. Primates have Broca's and Wernicke's areas in the brain, but they are used for other processes and the human form of it has evolved to encompass language. Without that functioning, they are incapable of abstract thinking. This isn't an assumption, it's reality. Primates are intelligent, as there is much they can understand, but humans are on a separate level.

Yet it's ironic they can and DO talk, communicate and have their own language. If they can form a tight family uniy and be compassionate and care about each other, why do you think it's not possible for them to use logic and reason or be self conscious? I find your theories to be very flawed and i don't believe you are up-to-date with your science.

Saying something is "playing god" is your opinion. You call people out and disregard what they say as "opinion" but most of the stuff you post is opinion. You dont get to tell someone who is depressed and slowly rotting on the inside that they shouldnt change themselves because it was nature's intention. I mean by that logic none of us should get a tattoo. Nature never intended us to put ink into our skin. I find it funny how people find plastic surgery and other things like that fine and then go off on trans-gendereds. What is the difference. Should someone who wants lasic eye surgery not be able to get it because nature INTENDED for them to have bad vision? Should people not be able to get lapband surgery because it is "playing god"?

Sounds like you didn't read my posts thoroughly enough. Playing God is not an opinion, it's a fact when you can visually see people doing it with their actions. Actions = truth, reality, existence, fact. Don't try and turn my facts and truths into opinion when they are not....I don't appreciate you trying to manipulate me. As for the rest of that post, some of it was decent and I will give it some more thought. For starters, "your body failing early" is COMPLETELY different than altering the way you were intended upon creation. None of the shit you mentioned is really relevant to a sex change at all, tbh.

As for the topic of religion,I thought the argument was that judgement is for the creator not mere mortals. If I was religious I would not presume to know God's will or plans. It seems a bit arrogant, but this is just my opinion as a casual observer...

I'm not religious, i don't go to church and I believe in Evolution, but I DO believe there is something out there that has spent several thousand years getting angrier and angrier at the human race for the way we live.

 

[SunnyD]

So wait... AREZ God of War

you get pissed off at people for not "reading your posts" and "not providing reasons for me (you) being wrong"

yet you quote me saying "im not going to respond to this cause its dumb, you're dumb"

The only response I'm going to give this compilation of utter ridiculousness and stupid ignorant statements is "I'm not even lowering myself to your level and responding to this compilation of utter ridiculousness and stupid ignorant statements".

and you say "you're opinions are wrong"...and tell me " you're wrong what i say are facts"

then right afterwards you admit to giving opinions, like this zinger here:

My thing is, I shared my opinion on the matter and they seem to want to CHANGE my opinion into their opinion rather than respecting my opinion for what it is.

hypocrisy in action. Its amazing to see you at work.

 

[AREZ God of War]

So wait... AREZ God of War

you get pissed off at people for not "reading your posts" and "not providing reasons for me (you) being wrong"

yet you quote me saying "im not going to respond to this cause its dumb, you're dumb"



and you say "you're opinions are wrong"...and tell me " you're wrong what i say are facts"

then right afterwards you admit to giving opinions, like this zinger here:


hypocrisy in action. Its amazing to see you at work.

Petty much? How's my dick taste? LMAO. That's another theory you just proved about common sense not being very common. If you were as smart as you make yourself appear to be, COMMON SENSE would have had you read between the lines.

Stupid people acting smart in action. Its amazing to see you NOT work at all.

I'm actually stepping out of this thread cuz I'm sick of arguing ....I feel like I'm in an argument w/ a bunch of old ladies who are too set in their ways to see reality, so here is my resignation. Have fun and be gay or whatever. I take my leave.

 

[Enenra]

Petty much? How's my dick taste? LMAO.

SunnyD is a man, so you are now gay.

#yolo