What's new

Mind of the Mint: My Reptile Ideals

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
First, before anything, if anyone can guess the meaning of my thread's title, you get an e-cookie. ;3

Anyway, dunno if all of you have been reading my latest posts concerning Reptile in various threads, but if you have, you already know I have this character in my top 10 again, as well as why I feel so. But to save the search for why I feel so again, I'll leave it to this thread.

My last essay in these forums dealt with my labwork and whatnot. We've established the importance of some of Reptile's options, but I still wasn't sure myself on how to best play Reptile. But now, I think I can say I have a more concrete grasp on it.

The way I see it, Reptile doesn't excel at rushdown, he doesn't excel at keeping opponents out, and he doesn't excel at pure footsies. What he does do that is effective, though, is play a really dangerous yet complex counter-zone game. When I play Reptile, I'm not playing to advance in to pressure, nor am I playing to get projectiles out faster than you. But rather, I'm playing to go against your zoning and counter-zoning attempts, and to put you out of your comfort zone entirely.

All of Reptile's tools perfectly fit this particular mold, and I'll break down entirely how this works. Let's start with spit...basic projectile, travels very fast despite the slow startup, high hitbox, making it difficult to jump, but easy to duck under. Frame data-wise, the projectile isn't that fast on startup, but recovery isn't awful either. What it's great at doing is setting up trades. These trades are vital because it allows Reptile the opportunity to elbow in and put the opponent at risk for a jump-in combo should they commit to a projectile again. This in turn can set up opportunities to sneak in forceballs, which allow Reptile to elbow in and, if close enough, go for short bursts of pressure to build up some meter or deal chunks of damage...or opt to stay out and force out an anti-projectile attack from the opponent while still building meter. And in situations where it's difficult to get his projectiles on screen, he has options still! Slide works vs most projectiles, and elbow on whiff works to inch forward, even without a projectile...and in some cases it punishes the projectile safely. So in a lot of cases, he can still play this counter-zoning game even if you strip him of the major tools. And this all spills over into knockdowns, too, as Reptile has numerous options to make you think twice about what you do while on your ass, whether it's fucking up your inputs or making you think he'll stay back or get in your face.

Now, what makes this strong is Reptile's game becomes 1000x better when he gets the meter he's building by making you uncomfortable doing your thing. At this point, he can do a lot more things a lot more efficiently, and becomes all-around better. So long as Reptile has a bar, you're at the mercy of him having a solution to just about anything you can try. He wants to control a fuckton of space? EX SFB, followed by other projectiles. Need a quick and easy life lead? EX slide to take the projectile and do more damage in the process. Can't whiff elbow? EX spit to push them outta there, or EX elbow to get in with advantage and force the opponent to commit to scouting it.

So yeah, this is good stuff. The main reason I have this philosophy is because I've come to notice, Reptile doesn't get his damage by peppering you with pressure or constantly keeping you out...but when you play like what I wrote, he sets up a lot of damage and builds tons of meter in the process, which gives him access to more options if he isn't at a spot he wants to be. Through methodical play, Reptile is extremely capable of controlling the pace and forcing out big mistakes. :) But alas, this all requires good reading skills, as you can't force out situations if you aren't aware of everything. I think this is what pushes Reptile to top 10. There's only a small group of characters Reptile CAN'T apply this all to.
 
Omg I love you. This is the subway cookie I didn't get to have (until now) after my sandwich earlier. :)


In regards to your post, excellent stuff. I want to see more of your rep in tournies though!
 

sLeeK

Noob
Really good read thtb.. You need to get your ass to a tourny/casuals.. I miss seeing your reptile. Glad to know reptile still has great players such as yourself using him <3
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
The way I see it, Reptile doesn't excel at rushdown, he doesn't excel at keeping opponents out, and he doesn't excel at pure footsies. What he does do that is effective, though, is play a really dangerous yet complex counter-zone game. When I play Reptile, I'm not playing to advance in to pressure, nor am I playing to get projectiles out faster than you. But rather, I'm playing to go against your zoning and counter-zoning attempts, and to put you out of your comfort zone entirely.
I completely agree.

I would say Reptile is a punisher, and counter zoning character.

One of Reptile's greatest tools, wouldn't even be the dash, which you would think, but it's the threat of the elbow dash. Reptile is a horrible character when you just throw out Random elbow dashes, but when the opponent respects your option to dash and not expect it, he becomes a whole different character.

Because of this, Reptile naturally slows down the opponents close up rush down game, and thats a massive factor. The opponent has to make alterations if they choose to rush down. Take KL: He can't just go on Auto Pilot or not hit confirm his pokes after any string, even after a 1221 on block, you may have to hesitate, and if you have your D3 blocked, you risk getting the elbow or even :ex elbow just for assuming.

I really want to people to see how I use Reptile, because I believe I have my own way of using him, but with that being said, its not a million miles away from what THTB has been up to recently.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Yeah, and another thing to take into account is Reptile's oki pressure. Because of how Reptile's options all work, any knockdown is dangerous vs him because that gives him all sorts of momentum to go on. He can cross you up with elbow just as you input your wakeup attack, only to completely throw it off, crossup constantly while you're grounded, only to randomly forceball as you think he's gonna still be close, or EX elbow before your wakeup attack is active, completely bypassing it and knocking you down again.

His punishing abilities are amplified by how solid his options are on downed opponents. Not many other characters are that strong on every knockdown.
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
Yeah, and another thing to take into account is Reptile's oki pressure. Because of how Reptile's options all work, any knockdown is dangerous vs him because that gives him all sorts of momentum to go on. He can cross you up with elbow just as you input your wakeup attack, only to completely throw it off, crossup constantly while you're grounded, only to randomly forceball as you think he's gonna still be close, or EX elbow before your wakeup attack is active, completely bypassing it and knocking you down again.

His punishing abilities are amplified by how solid his options are on downed opponents. Not many other characters are that strong on every knockdown.

Absolutely agree here. The amount of different options he has after a combo has to be more than any other character. I never do the same thing twice and depending on how you cut the combos off you can be in front or behind or in the middle of the downed opponent. I've also incorporated invisibility into almost everything I do and it throws people off. 321 into invis then sfb gets people to do random wake up attacks because most people expect you to invis-dash and be in your face. I'm hoping to have my matches up from On the Edge by tomorrow so I can get your guys critique.

As for "counter zoning" I assume your talking about ex fastball???? Which works on pretty on most of the cast except for Jax, Sonya, Freddy and Quan Chi. Although it can work on Freddy and Chi, you just have to duck rather than block since their block stun on their projectiles doesn't allow for the follow up punish.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Absolutely agree here. The amount of different options he has after a combo has to be more than any other character. I never do the same thing twice and depending on how you cut the combos off you can be in front or behind or in the middle of the downed opponent. I've also incorporated invisibility into almost everything I do and it throws people off. 321 into invis then sfb gets people to do random wake up attacks because most people expect you to invis-dash and be in your face. I'm hoping to have my matches up from On the Edge by tomorrow so I can get your guys critique.

As for "counter zoning" I assume your talking about ex fastball???? Which works on pretty on most of the cast except for Jax, Sonya, Freddy and Quan Chi. Although it can work on Freddy and Chi, you just have to duck rather than block since their block stun on their projectiles doesn't allow for the follow up punish.
Counter-zoning is basically punishing your attempts to put me in uncomfortable spots...and this is accomplished by a number of different options, from simply getting favorable trades to blowing up an anti-projectile move with your own options. Reptile excels at this because every option he has is a counter-zoning option.
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
Counter-zoning is basically punishing your attempts to put me in uncomfortable spots...and this is accomplished by a number of different options, from simply getting favorable trades to blowing up an anti-projectile move with your own options. Reptile excels at this because every option he has is a counter-zoning option.
Gotcha, the spit trade into dash jump over if they continue to try to zone. Dash into ex slide to be super safe about it (assuming they are throwing out a projectile), getting a fb on screen, etc etc. My fiancee is allowing me (lol) to go to Winter brawl, any chance you had the same luck?
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
No...I actually had no plans to go, but rather to head to PowerUp, which isn't seeming likely right now. :(
 

RapZiLLa54

Monster Island Tournaments
During winter brawl and getting the opportunity to play against different styles and characters I have to say I think Reptile is the best defensive character aside from Kung Lao. All these "frame traps" that people try to do are all punishable by Reptile as you look at most of the frame data, a ton of d1 and d3 are between -7 and -13 on block.

So I mean look at most characters block strings lets use Shang as an ie. His d1 is -13 (most 6 frame d1 are in this area). He likes to go into blah blah up or down skull and then d1 so if you jump out you are getting juggled or if you try to really do ANYTHING his d1 will usually beat it. So wait for the d1 and then dash. This goes for ANY character. And dash is the safe option, technically you could go into 321 as he tries to go into another string hes eating a full combo. I'm not sure about 122 as it will likely depend on what type of hitbox they have.

http://www.twitch.tv/kombatnetwork/b/308984446

Heres me vs Shady in casuals as hes Shang. I have next to zero Shang experience so I was struggling at first. You'll notice I try to dash after a skull and eat a d1. Then you'll notice I wait for d1 and the match becomes very easy especially in the corner.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Yeah, Reptile gets more at 6f than everyone else does, excluding KL and Sektor. The threat of being knocked down by a 6f attack is actually a good tool on defense because people are gonna be aware you can do that at any time, and hesitate on attacking you.
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
probably has been done before but dont see anyone use it:
321 dash njp sfb 32 ffb 32 dash jump back into jip

321 dash njp sfb 32 ffb 32 enhanced invis dash jump back into jip

both have pretty much replaced my old bnb and have worked great
 

Seapeople

This one's for you
probably has been done before but dont see anyone use it:
321 dash njp sfb 32 ffb 32 dash jump back into jip
It's a nice setup but I only use it occasionally. Imho reptile has a ton of ways to end combos and the more of them you use, the more trouble it will give your opponent.

There are still some big factors that affect this setup though (wakeup/tech roll into wakeup). You can mess up most wakeup attempts with a double elbow dash into jip, or elbow dash *pause* ex elbow dash.
 

Treadmill

Warrior
probably has been done before but dont see anyone use it:
321 dash njp sfb 32 ffb 32 dash jump back into jip

321 dash njp sfb 32 ffb 32 enhanced invis dash jump back into jip

both have pretty much replaced my old bnb and have worked great
Doing fast ball first nets more damage.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk