Tekken 8 Post-Release Discussion Thread

[M2Dave]

Even Maximilian Dood, a generally positive FGC content creator that's even said positive things about MK1 recently, hasn't had much to say good about Season 2.

Max embraces fighting games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Mortal Kombat X (while at one point also claiming that Mortal Kombat 1 is too slow and zoning-based), yet Tekken 8 is the fighting game that broke the camel's back.

Do you REALLY believe ALL of these people are wrong and only you are right?

I am not right as much as I am consistent and persistent in what I believe.

Unlike you...

More importantly, when pros are unhappy, casuals are unhappy, AND steam numbers are plummeting; it's a bad sign.

Just as importantly, when pros were unhappy, casuals were unhappy, AND stream numbers were plummeting for Mortal Kombat 1, you (and Crimson) essentially told everyone to shut up and be patience.

Why do you have a double standard for Tekken 8?

 

[Roy Arkon]

Are Mortal Kombat players issuing violent innuendos and death threats to people who are perceived to be accountable for a patch?

Communal suicide... virulence... derangement... are a couple of words that come to mind.

The Tekken community cannot survive in its current state.

I saw the video, and yes the Tekken community has indeed gone too far, but the MK community also did all of this things already.

All of the death threads people were sending Ed Boon and Shawn Kittlesen back in MK11 because of Mileena and Sindel, all the constant revisionism and hypocrisy that people used in constant tiresome waves for every single game since MK9 (including YOU Dave), making online petitions to force people to lose their jobs at NRS (like Dominic Cianciolo for the story of MK1 Khaos Reigns, that's something that Tekken community hasn't done, at least not yet), admitting and crying that they keep both bitching and playing MK games just because they've already spent so much money and time on MK games as if their money and time are secret (like Lotus Asakura and Blackheart admitted that they can't stop playing Tekken because of all the time they've spent and even comparing that to marrige-based relationship) and doing all of these things also to insane levels of both virulence AND derangement.

Max embraces fighting games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Mortal Kombat X (while at one point also claiming that Mortal Kombat 1 is too slow and zoning-based), yet Tekken 8 is the fighting game that broke the camel's back.



I am not right as much as I am consistent and persistent in what I believe.

Unlike you...



Just as importantly, when pros were unhappy, casuals were unhappy, AND stream numbers were plummeting for Mortal Kombat 1, you (and Crimson) essentially told everyone to shut up and be patience.

Why do you have a double standard for Tekken 8?

I myself already mentioned that Max is a Rushdown-game fan like MKX and MVC3 and yet he hates Tekken 8, and unlike the case of hating on MK1 due to FGC pressure and having to go with what's trending for safety of his job on YouTube, his comments on Tekken 8 were actually honest. That's the same for all of other people hating on MK1, they don't really hate MK1, they just parroting what others are saying either because it's socially cool on the interent, or to use that coolness factor to gain popularity and clout (like Mike Hollow, FATE, Jaded Rabbit and more) or just out of fear of getting harassed by others on social media (like how unCAGEDgamez was harassed and accused by MK haters for years and now he himself bashing MK1 just because he can't take the harassment anymore).

That's the difference between MK interent fans and Tekken interent fans. At least the Tekken interent fans have SOME amount of honesty when it comes to their hatred, MK interent fans don't have it, INCLUDING YOU. Like you claimed that both MK1 and MK11 don't have Zoning even though that ANYONE who either played or watched either of these games for a decent amount of time would see that both games have very strong Zoning. That's dishonesty. And yes Tekken interent has are dishonest and full of revisionism also, like how they pretending that Tekken 7 wasn't hated at launch for many reasons, but at least with this patch of Tekken 8, this time it's different, it's true honest hate, especially when you consider that Bamco lied to fans about making the game more defensive overall.

 

[M2Dave]

...all the constant revisionism and hypocrisy that people used in constant tiresome waves for every single game since MK9 (including YOU Dave)...

Not only are you revising history, you are making up history.

I never threatened to murder and/or harm anyone over a video game and its patch.

During Injustice 1's early lifespan, I did make one comment about an NRS employee's job, which I sincerely regretted and apologized for in person at a tournament.

As far as Tekken 8 is concerned, Harada has just tweeted that nerfs to offense and buffs to defense will be arriving later this week.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1911933422492401688

Harado has also issued an apology to the Tekken community.

I believe that some individuals in the Tekken community ought to be apologizing to Harada for their vitriol, harassment, and derangement.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Not only are you revising history, you are making up history.

I never threatened to murder and/or harm anyone over a video game and its patch.

During Injustice 1's early lifespan, I did make one comment about an NRS employee's job, which I sincerely regretted and apologized for in person at a tournament.

As far as Tekken 8 is concerned, Harada has just tweeted that nerfs to offense and buffs to defense will be arriving later this week.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1911933422492401688

Harado has also issued an apology to the Tekken community.

I believe that some individuals in the Tekken community ought to be apologizing to Harada for their vitriol, harassment, and derangement.

I never said that you threatened or murder or harm anyone, I said that you kept making hypocritical comments full of revisionism, that's why I put your name in brackets only after that one point in particular, to show that this part of the problem is at your hands too, not the whole problem.

Also the fact that you made a comment about the job of someone at NRS only proves my point even more. MK interent fans called out for people at NRS and WB to be fired, Tekken internet fans called people in Bamco to be fired. And unlike Tekken interent fans, MK internet fans. like I said, even made petitions for people at NRS to lose their job. Everything that Tekken interent fans already did, MK interent fans already did also and then some. They were all vitriol, harassing and derange towards both NRS, WB and MK and IJ fans alike.

And regarding this Tweet, the fact that Bamco already lied to everyone once makes it hard to take whatever they say now seriously. Not saying there's zero chance they are telling the truth this time, but you can't not believing them at this point until some major, legit changes happen.

And this is only towards the gameplay part, nothing about the netcode or the single player content, both which have been horrible since Tekken 8's launch. So even if these changes are for real this time, T8 is still gonna have multiple glaring issues, especially the netcode which is major point for anyone to enjoy these supposed gameplay changes.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

More information on the next patch.

NEWS | TEKKEN OFFICIAL | バンダイナムコエンターテインメント公式サイト

業務用・家庭用ゲーム機用 対戦格闘アクションゲーム『鉄拳』シリーズの公式サイト。シリーズ作品のストーリーや登場キャラクター、操作方法、技表、壁紙やプロモーション映像などを公開中。

www.tekken-official.jp

 

[Vulgar]

Max embraces fighting games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Mortal Kombat X (while at one point also claiming that Mortal Kombat 1 is too slow and zoning-based), yet Tekken 8 is the fighting game that broke the camel's back.



I am not right as much as I am consistent and persistent in what I believe.

Unlike you...



Just as importantly, when pros were unhappy, casuals were unhappy, AND stream numbers were plummeting for Mortal Kombat 1, you (and Crimson) essentially told everyone to shut up and be patience.

Why do you have a double standard for Tekken 8?

That's a gross oversimplification of the arguments I made at the time but hey, I never expect much from you.

Stay "consistent."

 

[SaltShaker]

Yeah that's what I'm saying about the whining, these low rank casuals aren't playing the game at that level they are just joining the complaint party, typical reddit tbh

https://x.com/i/web/status/1911937635284836682

This isn't the hill you think it is.

EDIT: can't leave out the head honcho himself

https://x.com/i/web/status/1911974797225173345

 

[SaltShaker]

Imagine sitting quiet taking the worst patch ever balls deep instead of voicing concerns and getting your feedback heard with emergency patches to fix the problems that were created in the game.

 

[M2Dave]

Look...

Most of you begged Harada for nerfs.

You will receive what you requested.

I dislike low-powered fighting games, but I understand that I am in the minority.

At the end of the day, many of you will continue whining anyway.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Max embraces fighting games like Marvel vs. Capcom 3 and Mortal Kombat X (while at one point also claiming that Mortal Kombat 1 is too slow and zoning-based), yet Tekken 8 is the fighting game that broke the camel's back.



I am not right as much as I am consistent and persistent in what I believe.

Unlike you...



Just as importantly, when pros were unhappy, casuals were unhappy, AND stream numbers were plummeting for Mortal Kombat 1, you (and Crimson) essentially told everyone to shut up and be patience.

Why do you have a double standard for Tekken 8?

This is super disingenuous. When Cyrax helicopter over and over was dominating the meta, I said that it should be toned down, because not having any diversity or thought involved did not make the game fun to play or watch.

I did not tell anyone to shut up about it. And now Tekken has gone down the path of trying to force the meta through extremely simple and overly powerful tools, which is exactly what I advocated against on the podcast and in our conversations here.

I’ll say that I’ve never understood the people screaming for Cyrax to come back. He leads to extremely linear gameplay because he can’t be armored through, which removes counterplay and leads to autopiloting, over and over again.

The more people have to think, the more interesting the gameplay becomes. Helicopter over and over is the opposite.

 

[Eddy Wang]

KNEE's season 2 Lars in a nutshell

The fact that lars auto corrects any shit that he does and even if you block his lows he is at -12 it's insane, someone at namco has been smoking some shit.
like paul and king have low launchers that high crush and are -12, lmao
King can use this same low launcher into an air power bomb and does a 2 hit combo with 62 damage

 

[SaltShaker]

Look...

Most of you begged Harada for nerfs.

You will receive what you requested.

I dislike low-powered fighting games, but I understand that I am in the minority.

At the end of the day, many of you will continue whining anyway.

Translation: "The entire community was united in outrage at a historically bad patch, so much so that even Harada himself acknowledged how unacceptable it was and stated the development team is working "day and night" to address the issues".

 

[Marinjuana]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1911937635284836682

This isn't the hill you think it is.

EDIT: can't leave out the head honcho himself

https://x.com/i/web/status/1911974797225173345

Tekken 8% on steam, we did it!

 

[M2Dave]

This is super disingenuous. When Cyrax helicopter over and over was dominating the meta, I said that it should be toned down, because not having any diversity or thought involved did not make the game fun to play or watch.

I did not tell anyone to shut up about it. And now Tekken has gone down the path of trying to force the meta through extremely simple and overly powerful tools, which is exactly what I advocated against on the podcast and in our conversations here.

You are missing the point.

I was not referring to any specific meta.

I was referring to the fact that when everyone was criticizing Mortal Kombat 1 throughout its first year, some unconstructively albeit many more constructively, you had asked the NRS community to be patient until the game's issues were resolved.

By contrast, you jumped on the "This Tekken 8 patch sucks" bandwagon instantaneously without giving Namco and Tekken 8 the same benefit of the doubt that you gave NRS and Mortal Kombat 1... for an entire year.

Why did you not ask Tekken players in this thread to be more constructive? To be more patient? To be more lenient?

If you do wish to mention and discuss the meta and "powerful (offensive) tools", where is your objection to Cyrax/Sareena? To T-1000/Mavado? To Homelander/Ferra? Show me the posts/tweets, please.

Evidently, you come across as having double standards for different games and communities.

Translation: "The entire community was united in outrage at a historically bad patch, so much so that even Harada himself acknowledged how unacceptable it was and stated the development team is working "day and night" to address the issues".

Season one, two, or anything in between, you have complained about Tekken 8 more than anyone else in this thread.

I highly doubt that any patch will make you suddenly happy. LOL.

In fact, if Namco does buff defensive options, I already know what you (and lots of other players) will complain about next.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I was referring to the fact that when everyone was criticizing Mortal Kombat 1 throughout its first year, some unconstructively albeit many more constructively, you had asked the NRS community to be patient until the game's issues were resolved.

By contrast, you jumped on the "This Tekken 8 patch sucks" bandwagon instantaneously without giving Namco and Tekken 8 the same benefit of the doubt that you gave NRS and Mortal Kombat 1... for an entire year.

You’re leaving out the most important part:

I have never used MK or NRS games to shade another community. However, lots of people (including you and Tom) were gleefully using Namco to bash MK, saying how Tekken 8 was this paragon of a game that would kill MK1’s scene for good when it came out, and talking about how Namco was the example that should be followed.

I pointed out at the time that every dev has issues, and predicted that after the “new game” halo wore off, Tekken 8’s push for emphasizing offense would come back to bite them, and that the community would eventually have things to take issue with. I was told I was wrong.

So here we are. What’s hypocritical was for people to have a “holier than thou” attitude about Capcom and Namco, and then to now try to dodge the “I told you so” when it’s coming back the other way.

 

[SaltShaker]

Season one, two, or anything in between, you have complained about Tekken 8 more than anyone else in this thread.

I highly doubt that any patch will make you suddenly happy. LOL.

In fact, if Namco does buff defensive options, I already know what you (and lots of other players) will complain about next.

True, because I've always hated Heat or the addition of so many "skip neutral" tools, but after taking a break for a few months out of just playing other games I was ready to deep dive again after the changes THEY promised. When I saw it was the exact opposite of what they said it would be I decided it would be no point in playing again until otherwise. Too many good FGs out.

If they make the patch they themselves originally promised, the one they are saying they'll do now after massive community-wide backlash, such as toning down heat to a regular non-game deciding level and repetitive braindead monkey moves getting nerfed I guarantee I'll instantly boot the game back up and grind it again with much less complaints. The basis of my complaints from day 1 have been almost the exact same things lol. Luckily it seems that they have finally understood what needs to be done so I am cautiously optimistic.

 

[M2Dave]

I have never used MK or NRS games to shade another community. However, lots of people (including you and Tom) were gleefully using Namco to bash MK, saying how Tekken 8 was this paragon of a game that would kill MK1’s scene for good when it came out, and talking about how Namco was the example that should be followed.

Correction:

I "gleefully" used Tekken 8's offline tournament numbers, which have been consistent in spite of the dooming, to "bash" Mortal Kombat 1's offline tournament numbers.

When you stated that the NRS community's exodus to Tekken 8 was going to be short-lived, I agreed with you.

Nonetheless, this inevitability hardly warrants flattery.

You are infamous for making obvious predictions and subsequently beating your chest.

I pointed out at the time that every dev has issues, and predicted that after the “new game” halo wore off, Tekken 8’s push for emphasizing offense would come back to bite them, and that the community would eventually have things to take issue with. I was told I was wrong.

I have never claimed that you are wrong.

Anyone familiar with the Tekken community understands that any drastic changes to the franchise's gameplay will be fiercely opposed by legacy players, which comprise a substantial fragment of the competitive base.

The point is that while I am not questioning your rectitude on this matter, I am most certainly questioning your consistency.

I reiterate that if you wish to discuss the emphasis on offense in modern fighting games, where is your criticism of Cyrax/Sareena, T-1000/Mavado, Homelander/Ferra, and so on? Where is your advocacy for defense and zoning in Mortal Kombat 1?

Please show me the posts and/or tweets.

If they make the patch they themselves originally promised, the one they are saying they'll do now after massive community-wide backlash, such as toning down heat to a regular non-game deciding level and repetitive braindead monkey moves getting nerfed I guarantee I'll instantly boot the game back up and grind it again with much less complaints. The basis of my complaints from day 1 have been almost the exact same things lol. Luckily it seems that they have finally understood what needs to be done so I am cautiously optimistic.

Why do you just want to play Tekken 7.5 for another eight years?

 

[PrinceGoro]

Look...

Most of you begged Harada for nerfs.

You will receive what you requested.

I dislike low-powered fighting games, but I understand that I am in the minority.

At the end of the day, many of you will continue whining anyway.

Im with you on the general sentiment of overall buffing rather then nerfing and higher power levels, with specific tatgeted nerfs if needed but in tekken 8 chracters are already mega powerfull, have super bloated move lists due to legacy carry over and adding new moves in t7 and t8. Giving characters more moves that are even more powerfull then their current best moves is a bit absurd. The implementation of this moves is also done in such a way that further messes up core tekken gameplay standards and rules.

I recommend watching some of plantedmedusa videos on the topic of t8 seeason 2 and t8 in general and what the issues are and how season 2 further messed things up in the eyes of the hardcore tekken players perspectives and tournament players.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Tekken champion fighting gm argues that Tekken has always been broken. And people who claim they love Tekken should just adapt because they have it easy in Tekken 8.

 

[SaltShaker]

Tekken champion fighting gm argues that Tekken has always been broken. And people who claim they love Tekken should just adapt because they have it easy in Tekken 8.

 

[TarkatanPeriodontik]

During MK’s rough first year, how did the developer communication from NRS compare to Bandai’s currently (who are finally being apologetic)?
Genuine question. I know Bandai Namco is the type of company to sneak a whole shop with micro transactions into their game after it’s already received reviews lauding it for being less predatory for not having said mtx.

But anyways, I’m foggy about what NRS communication was like when they were being lampooned.
I theorize that for competitive players like @M2Dave Tekken is much their speed because the direction of the game is more defined by their competitive offline scene relative to MK. Tekken 7 sales spiked around the time the big Pakistan shake up happened.
Anyways carry on

 

[M2Dave]

Im with you on the general sentiment of overall buffing rather then nerfing and higher power levels, with specific tatgeted nerfs if needed but in tekken 8 chracters are already mega powerfull, have super bloated move lists due to legacy carry over and adding new moves in t7 and t8. Giving characters more moves that are even more powerfull then their current best moves is a bit absurd. The implementation of this moves is also done in such a way that further messes up core tekken gameplay standards and rules.

Characters did receive lots of new moves in Tekken 7, but the power levels toward the very end of Tekken 7's lifespan were very low.

Too many characters were over-nerfed (i.e., Devil Jin, Dragunov, Fahkumram, Leroy, Lidia, etc.) while others were given inconsequential buffs (i.e., Armor King, Eddy, Gigas, Lars, Leo, etc.)

Because Namco continued buffing defense and nerfing offense, characters who retained counter-hit launchers (i.e., Bryan, Katarina, Kunimitsu, Noctis, Steve, etc.) suddenly became top tier.

Matches were boring and noninteractive.

Even those of you who ejaculate to the thought of nerfs, I will requote PhiDX... "horror... ugly... perfect defensive gameplan... I am just going to back dash the entire time..."

Tekken champion fighting gm argues that Tekken has always been broken. And people who claim they love Tekken should just adapt because they have it easy in Tekken 8.

"Nowadays when people don't like something, they go on Twitter and complain, or they boycott the game, or whatever. Back then we had to adapt. Either you adapted or people called you a scrub..."

Presently, people worship you for demanding nerfs, as you are acknowledged with an ejaculatory standing ovation.

I theorize that for competitive players like @M2Dave Tekken is much their speed because the direction of the game is more defined by their competitive offline scene relative to MK.

Yes, but I am first and foremost promoting high power levels in fighting games.

And unlike Tom who now flees from this talking point because of Tekken 8's temporary unpopularity...

I firmly stand by what I have always believed.

 

[SaltShaker]

@M2Dave your next fighting game is about to be the ultimate power levels.

 

[Vulgar]

Characters did receive lots of new moves in Tekken 7, but the power levels toward the very end of Tekken 7's lifespan were very low.

Too many characters were over-nerfed (i.e., Devil Jin, Dragunov, Fahkumram, Leroy, Lidia, etc.) while others were given inconsequential buffs (i.e., Armor King, Eddy, Gigas, Lars, Leo, etc.)

Because Namco continued buffing defense and nerfing offense, characters who retained counter-hit launchers (i.e., Bryan, Katarina, Kunimitsu, Noctis, Steve, etc.) suddenly became top tier.

Matches were boring and noninteractive.

Even those of you who ejaculate to the thought of nerfs, I will requote PhiDX... "horror... ugly... perfect defensive gameplan... I am just going to back dash the entire time..."



"Nowadays when people don't like something, they go on Twitter and complain, or they boycott the game, or whatever. Back then we had to adapt. Either you adapted or people called you a scrub..."

Presently, people worship you for demanding nerfs, as you are acknowledged with an ejaculatory standing ovation.



Yes, but I am first and foremost promoting high power levels in fighting games.

And unlike Tom who now flees from this talking point because of Tekken 8's temporary unpopularity...

I firmly stand by what I have always believed.

High power levels are fine up to a point.

Was anyone happy with the, "high power level" of pre-patch Injustice Scorpion?

I don't think so.

Surely, there's a threshold for how high we want our "power levels" to be, no?

Otherwise, the Fist of the North Star fighting game would be the best game ever made.

The point is that if the "power levels" are so high that the vast majority of the playerbase is unhappy, then it might be okay to tone things down.

Games are supposed to be fun, after all.

 

[Vulgar]

@M2Dave your next fighting game is about to be the ultimate power levels.

I personally think all this power level talk is anime brain rot.

No one enjoyed being looped by Cyrax.

No one had fun micro duck-dashing Kabal Instant Air Gas Blasts.

Having strong characters is good.

Having characters so strong that the game is no longer fun or interactive is not.