Support for MK1 Supposedly Cancelled

[Vulgar]

NO!!

I play Kitana and I want to toss fans and do combo conversions with fan toss like what she always did instead of this new garbage direction nrs is taking her on with mk11 forward

Characters need to play a certain way

Says who?

You? Why?

Versions of that character that play that way do exist. You can still play them.

 

[Subby Z]

That last bit is a bunch of really ass mad nonsense.

I'd rather they go in a new direction than re-visit stuff we've already seen.

Then you’ll watch the studio close down like numerous others. NRS mobile division being one of those.

They can give characters new direction and new stories, but anything like MK1. Never again. Awful.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

How would you guys rank MK9, MKX, MK11 and MK1?

Under what parameters?

My opinions:
Mk9 had the best single player modes, best overall art direction (music, stages and costumes, though the female costumes were obviously wayyy over the top sexualized). Solid gameplay that was unfortunely ruined by ATROCIOUS balance.

MKX: excellent gameplay, still held back by some balance issues, though miles better than MK9's balance. Art direction is worse in basically every way EXCEPT some of the female costumes and one or two other characters. Kombat kids were a miss for me, I didnt really dig any besides Cassie (which should NOT have been included with both Sonya and Johnny in the same roster). Stages were mostly bland as fuck, save for Jinsei Chamber and Sky temple. Music was also lacking, as was the singleplayer features.

Mk11: the best presentation for characters so far. Lots of GREAT costumes and gear pieces. Stages and music are still mostly bland, just now detailed blandness. I'd take Mk9's soul chamber a thousands times over MK11's, even though the latter has way more detail. Singleplayer modes are yet again a downgrade from MK9, and "Towers of Time" launched bloated with modifiers that made them unsufferable. Gameplay was, by far, the worst in the NRS mks, though the balance was improved from MKX even further.

Mk1: best gameplay and best balance so far. Great art direction for stages and (most of) the characters. Great roster. Music is still a far cry from MK9's remixed classics, though some fraction of the tracks (Havik's Citadel, Tomb of the Dragon Army, etc) are on par or excel the classics. Presentation for character models is a little better than MKX, and worse than MK11 for some reason I can't quite put my finger on. WORST single player experience from an NRS game so far.

In short: I like and dislike all of them for different reasons, but since the gameplay is the most important aspect for me, I'd rank MK1 as my favorite, followed by MKX (almost tied with MK9) and then MK11.

 

[Vulgar]

Then you’ll watch the studio close down like numerous others. NRS mobile division being one of those.

They can give characters new direction and new stories, but anything like MK1. Never again. Awful.

You're right. They should just tell the same 3 stories over and over again. No new moves. No new characters. No new gameplay systems.

We just want the same slop over and over again.

Let me fire not one synapse. Let me sleep awake. Let me die while living. Let me consume product with nary a hint of artistry or creativity.

Do not think. Only consume.

 

[Subby Z]

You're right. They should just tell the same 3 stories over and over again. No new moves. No new characters. No new gameplay systems.

We just want the same slop over and over again.

Let me fire not one synapse. Let me sleep awake. Let me die while living. Let me consume product with nary a hint of artistry or creativity.

Do not think. Only consume.

Nah just develop a core group of characters, kill some off along the way with good purpose, and introduce new characters who make sense with the lore.

They’ve proven they can’t do that though.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Says who?

You? Why?

Versions of that character that play that way do exist. You can still play them.

Nah Rude. That's a slippery slope and how you end up with Combofiends dreaded "functions" excuse

Characters should retain at least some sort of identity. Not doing that is just alienating old fans and hoping that new ones latch on. It's a bad formula

 

[Vulgar]

Nah just develop a core group of characters, kill some off along the way with good purpose, and introduce new characters who make sense with the lore.

They’ve proven they can’t do that though.

They did exactly that with MKX and MK11 and all everyone did was cry.

They tried to shift the main protagonist to Cassie Cage and all everyone did was cry.

They tried to develop Liu Kang's character and advance him to a point beyond being the champion of Earthrrealm and all everyone did was cry.

They even tried a brand new antagonist and all everyone did was cry.

But THEN...

When they re-focused back to Shang Tsung as the main antagonist, people cried about them doing the same thing over again.

It's no surprise to me that after SF, MK, and Tekken all tried to introduce brand new main antagonists, all people did was cry about not having the OGs. So we get M. Bison and Heihachi as DLC and Titan Shang Tsung.

As always, no one knows what they want.

 

[Vulgar]

Nah Rude. That's a slippery slope and how you end up with Combofiends dreaded "functions" excuse

Characters should retain at least some sort of identity. Not doing that is just alienating old fans and hoping that new ones latch on. It's a bad formula

Sure, but across nearly every MK game with a few exceptions, most characters keep their core moves.

Has Scorpion never not had his spear or Sub Zero his slide?

Has Johnny Cage not been some flavor of rushdown character?

I think exploring a design space is a good thing. There's a world of difference between replacing Zero with Sigma in MVCI and Scorpion going from a vortex character to a run cancel character, wouldn't you say?

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Has Scorpion never not had his spear or Sub Zero his slide?

It goes beyond that though, even though I agree with the thesis of your point. It’s that the characters should be comprehensible from their previous versions.

Take MKX sub vs MK1 Sub, and what the slide and iceball do for him (picking them cause they’re his OG moves).

In MKX he was a 50/50 corner rape character with mediocre buttons but with lots of ways to put people in the corner, the slide being one of them. Sub could slide under a projectile on reaction and get good knockback meterlessly. You also had the threat of ex iceball to get a full screen conversion. They also reinforce the ice klone’s position on the screen because the opponent has to think twice before throwing a projectile and getting rid of the klone whenever they want, so it also helps him walk you down and get you to the corner.

In this game, Sub stands up during the startup of the slide so you can’t go from neutral duck into a slide under a projectile on reaction. You can ex slide on reaction and launch with kameos, but he side switches (for most of the game’s life). It’s still there to a degree but it’s objectively less useful in terms of what it gives him. Ex iceball is useless being slow as fuck and simply not having enough time for SZ to convert, as well as regular iceball not giving SZ enough time to convert off the trade he’ll never get. And with the ice klone’s nerfs, they’re no longer enforcers for the klone.

This isn’t an MK1 Sub is bad post, I think he’s not that bad and I don’t really give a fuck, it’s just to illustrate that his tools are incomprehensible from previous versions.

 

[Subby Z]

They did exactly that with MKX and MK11 and all everyone did was cry.

They tried to shift the main protagonist to Cassie Cage and all everyone did was cry.

They tried to develop Liu Kang's character and advance him to a point beyond being the champion of Earthrrealm and all everyone did was cry.

They even tried a brand new antagonist and all everyone did was cry.

But THEN...

When they re-focused back to Shang Tsung as the main antagonist, people cried about them doing the same thing over again.

It's no surprise to me that after SF, MK, and Tekken all tried to introduce brand new main antagonists, all people did was cry about not having the OGs. So we get M. Bison and Heihachi as DLC and Titan Shang Tsung.

As always, no one knows what they want.

You know I can have an actual conversation about this because I slightly agree about the MkX argument but then again I don’t at the same time.

I actually liked the new generation thing. In fact I think that’s the direction they should have stuck with. Hell I wanted more kids eventually. The thing is they did it too fast and that’s where they fucked up. I think Boon or maybe someone else wanted so direly to get away from the trilogy characters and that’s just crazy to me because they are his money makers.

Cassie and the other kombat kids could have been introduced in endings or story mode scenes before properly introducing them into a game. Instead they introduced them after killing off their beloved characters in the previous game and also had them playable WITH their parents. Like good god nobody needed Sonya, Cassie, and Johnny all on the roster. Same with Jax and Jacqui.

Then it made the game sooo heavy in special forces characters as a result and THAT was part of the reason people hated them.

Imagine like a buffer game between MK9 and MKX where we learn johnny and sonya had a kid. It would have given fans a time to warm up to her.

Instead they introduced her with a special forces heavy roster where she felt redundant and it killed her momentum before she could even start.

And that falls on the writing team. They fucked up in MK9 by mass killing all of their fan favorite characters. They fucked up in MkX by introducing those new characters to replace the old favorites and making them all special forces characters.

The concepts in MKX were not bad. How they implemented them was

Mortal Kombat 1 was just bad. No redeeming qualities.haha

 

[just_2swift]

NO!!

I play Kitana and I want to toss fans and do combo conversions with fan toss like what she always did instead of this new garbage direction nrs is taking her on with mk11 forward

Characters need to play a certain way

This

 

[exflyingbooty]

How would you guys rank MK9, MKX, MK11 and MK1?

Mkx, mk9, mk1, mk11

 

[Vulgar]

You know I can have an actual conversation about this because I slightly agree about the MkX argument but then again I don’t at the same time.

I actually liked the new generation thing. In fact I think that’s the direction they should have stuck with. Hell I wanted more kids eventually. The thing is they did it too fast and that’s where they fucked up. I think Boon or maybe someone else wanted so direly to get away from the trilogy characters and that’s just crazy to me because they are his money makers.

Cassie and the other kombat kids could have been introduced in endings or story mode scenes before properly introducing them into a game. Instead they introduced them after killing off their beloved characters in the previous game and also had them playable WITH their parents. Like good god nobody needed Sonya, Cassie, and Johnny all on the roster. Same with Jax and Jacqui.

Then it made the game sooo heavy in special forces characters as a result and THAT was part of the reason people hated them.

Imagine like a buffer game between MK9 and MKX where we learn johnny and sonya had a kid. It would have given fans a time to warm up to her.

Instead they introduced her with a special forces heavy roster where she felt redundant and it killed her momentum before she could even start.

And that falls on the writing team. They fucked up in MK9 by mass killing all of their fan favorite characters. They fucked up in MkX by introducing those new characters to replace the old favorites and making them all special forces characters.

The concepts in MKX were not bad. How they implemented them was

Mortal Kombat 1 was just bad. No redeeming qualities.haha

Some of this I agree with, a lot I don't.

I think that - from the perspective of a creator - having to continually go back to the well to the same handful of characters gets very tiresome.

It's why so many fan favorite characters fucking died in Deadly Alliance and were replaced with a ton of new characters in Deception. In order for a franchise to survive and thrive, it has to be willing to change.

To use a non-fighting game example, look at Resident Evil and Silent Hill.

Resident Evil insisted upon itself all the way to the absolute mediocrity that was RE0. People were tired of the same formula.

So here comes RE4. We get rid of Umbrella, we get rid of the zombies, we introduce whole new antagonists with the Las Plagas. Game saved the franchise and sold like gang busters. And eventually they played that out until we got to RE6 where again - people were getting tired of how bloated RE had become.

Enter RE7, doing what RE4 did for the franchise but in a completely different direction.

Then you have Silent Hill, a franchise that kept trying to chase the tail of SH2 all the way to circling the drain with Downpour. It's only recently that the series has returned and even the SH2 Remake us significantly different from the original.

The point is, in order to survive and thrive, a long-running franchise has to be open to trying new things and going in different and sometimes weird directions and I think MK is no exception.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Some of this I agree with, a lot I don't.

I think that - from the perspective of a creator - having to continually go back to the well to the same handful of characters gets very tiresome.

It's why so many fan favorite characters fucking died in Deadly Alliance and were replaced with a ton of new characters in Deception. In order for a franchise to survive and thrive, it has to be willing to change.

To use a non-fighting game example, look at Resident Evil and Silent Hill.

Resident Evil insisted upon itself all the way to the absolute mediocrity that was RE0. People were tired of the same formula.

So here comes RE4. We get rid of Umbrella, we get rid of the zombies, we introduce whole new antagonists with the Las Plagas. Game saved the franchise and sold like gang busters. And eventually they played that out until we got to RE6 where again - people were getting tired of how bloated RE had become.

Enter RE7, doing what RE4 did for the franchise but in a completely different direction.

Then you have Silent Hill, a franchise that kept trying to chase the tail of SH2 all the way to circling the drain with Downpour. It's only recently that the series has returned and even the SH2 Remake us significantly different from the original.

The point is, in order to survive and thrive, a long-running franchise has to be open to trying new things and going in different and sometimes weird directions and I think MK is no exception.

Liking this comment for RE4 glazing

 

[Vulgar]

Liking this comment for RE4 glazing

No lies were spoken about RE4.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

1. MK1
2. MK11
3. IJ1
4. IJ2
5. MK9 and MKXL, dead even, forever.

If you released a double remaster of MK9 and MKX, you'd have enough inspiration and creative fuel to completely reinvigorate the NRS scene.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

No lies were spoken about RE4.

I almost have to compulsively replay it every time it’s mentioned. RE4 2005 probably has a perfect gameplay loop and you’re right in that it being so different saved Resident Evil. It switched entire genres in a way MK1 really can’t to revitalize the series.

 

[Vulgar]

I almost have to compulsively replay it every time it’s mentioned. RE4 2005 probably has a perfect gameplay loop and you’re right in that it being so different saved Resident Evil. It switched entire genres in a way MK1 really can’t to revitalize the series.

How do you feel about the remake? I enjoyed it, but I treat it completely differently from the original, if that makes sense.

You're not wrong about MK. I think it needs it's "RE4" game, but it's held back by the genre, it seems.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

1. MK1
2. MK11
3. IJ1
4. IJ2
5. MK9 and MKXL, dead even, forever.

If you released a double remaster of MK9 and MKX, you'd have enough inspiration and creative fuel to completely reinvigorate the NRS scene.

Don’t know if I agree with that, I think it’d take a spiritual successor to MK9.

How do you feel about the remake? I enjoyed it, but I treat it completely differently from the original, if that makes sense.

You're not wrong about MK. I think it needs it's "RE4" game, but it's held back by the genre, it seems.

Remake is awesome. My game of the 2020s so far. The atmosphere and pacing are perfect, Leon himself is awesome (I bought myself the exact B3 bomber jacket Capcom scanned in for Leon since RE engine scans real life items). Luis, Ashley, Ada (and the entirety of separate ways) were upgraded, but the villains were downgraded. Not having Leon interact with Saddler one single time till chapter 14 was a huge mistake and I think a byproduct of them making this game more serious.

The combat is excellent and is really satisfying. This is like a John Wick video game basically. The knife parry adds so much to the resident evil combat loop and makes it so much more fun than games like RE8. Not as easy to exploit as the original, but it’s not quite as fluid and responsive. Even though the OG has tank controls, Leon does exactly what you make him do and it’s so predictable to the point you can truly master it. In this game, the inconsistent staggers, Leon getting stunlocked, enemy grabs being so wonky with ducking not always working (unarmed ganados are the most threatening, really?), and Leon being locked in an animation like his running slow down before you can do context dependent things like knife a downed ganado can be annoying.

Those are my only nitpicks though, RE4R fucks and is the second best action horror game ever, the OG is a legitimate 10/10 masterpiece for me, so this one is like an enthusiastic 9. And you know how much I like to complain.

 

[PrinceGoro]

That last bit is a bunch of really ass mad nonsense.

I'd rather they go in a new direction than re-visit stuff we've already seen.

Well, it can entirely be take in a new direction. It can re-tell mk4 but it can also go in it own new and unique way.

But again when you make something new, it simply being new is not enough. You actually have ti make it good. You have a massive missconeption that the only reason people dont like mkx mk11 mk1 story is because its new lol. The reality is they are tragically bad stories which is why a spin off games story being resumed is the best thing that can happen to this franchise, cause it would hage nothing to do with the travesty that has been done to the main titles narrative.

That last bit was just some vulgar spice to my post, im POSITIVE you will understand.

 

[Vulgar]

Well, it can entirely be take in a new direction. It can re-tell mk4 but it can also go in it own new and unique way.

But again when you make something new, it simply being new is not enough. You actually have ti make it good. You have a massive missconeption that the only reason people dont like mkx mk11 mk1 story is because its new lol. The reality is they are tragically bad stories which is why a spin off games story being resumed is the best thing that can happen to this franchise, cause it would hage nothing to do with the travesty that has been done to the main titles narrative.

That last bit was just some vulgar spice to my post, im POSITIVE you will understand.

Honestly, everything in MKX/11/etc was about on par with anything in the original trilogy and beyond.

These stories were never Faulkner.

We live in an era where everyone wants a spicy hot take that they can post on social media for engagement. Negative engagement is more successful than positive engagement. So people are incentivized to look for things to complain about.

Not to mention we live in a post Cinema Sins, irony-pilled media literacy age where everyone that watches a ten minute video thinks they're literary experts.

Fact is, MKX and MK11 were fine. MK1 was fine, granted that the ending was polarizing.

 

[haketh]

MK11 had the best art & aesthetic direction for the series

I to this day cannot stand looking at MKX even if I think some designs in that game are good. The super dark & desaturated look is fucking awful & I hate how many stages look like mud. MK has always been a bright & poppy looking game like the Wuxia films it pays homage to, no idea what they were thinking with MKX.

 

[PrinceGoro]

Honestly, everything in MKX/11/etc was about on par with anything in the original trilogy and beyond.

These stories were never Faulkner.

We live in an era where everyone wants a spicy hot take that they can post on social media for engagement. Negative engagement is more successful than positive engagement. So people are incentivized to look for things to complain about.

Not to mention we live in a post Cinema Sins, irony-pilled media literacy age where everyone that watches a ten minute video thinks they're literary experts.

Fact is, MKX and MK11 were fine. MK1 was fine, granted that the ending was polarizing.

Oof, if you actually think that then good for you. Thats some next level cope. It would be like saying the sequal trilogy of star wars is about the same as the originals lol.

You cant say they were fine when they fall apart on all categories, all of which is rooted in terrible writing. Not to mention that mk11 literally made the entire mk lore obsolete.

Because anything that happened in the mk univers was not natural and by its own accord but because kronika wanted lol. Every fight, every action, every outcome is totally rendered meaningless, nothing matters.

And thats just one example of how not fine these new stories are, how awfull the story telling is, how bad the character interactions in them are, how void of soul and charm they are, how the pacing is terrible, how the multiverse bs made the stories void of any stakes or urgency.

So yeah to say that the mkx 11 and 1 are fine and just as good of stories as the pre nrs stories is pretty dishonest and/or ignorant.

 

[Vulgar]

Oof, if you actually think that then good for you. Thats some next level cope. It would be like saying the sequal trilogy of star wars is about the same as the originals lol.

You cant say they were fine when they fall apart on all categories, all of which is rooted in terrible writing. Not to mention that mk11 literally made the entire mk lore obsolete.

Because anything that happened in the mk univers was not natural and by its own accord but because kronika wanted lol. Every fight, every action, every outcome is totally rendered meaningless, nothing matters.

And thats just one example of how not fine these new stories are, how awfull the story telling is, how bad the character interactions in them are, how void of soul and charm they are, how the pacing is terrible, how the multiverse bs made the stories void of any stakes or urgency.

So yeah to say that the mkx 11 and 1 are fine and just as good of stories as the pre nrs stories is pretty dishonest and/or ignorant.

I disagree. I don't think that simply because the story progression was linear and in accordance with an omnipotent beings design that it doesn't mean anything. That's a pretty weak take.



But more importantly: The whole franchise started as an homage to things like Bloodsport, Enter The Dragon, and the Terminator.

These stories were never especially deep or insightful. An example:

If you think this is peak well...

We'll have to agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[MK9KevAgain]

Nah Rude. That's a slippery slope and how you end up with Combofiends dreaded "functions" excuse

Characters should retain at least some sort of identity. Not doing that is just alienating old fans and hoping that new ones latch on. It's a bad formula

Wait, wait, wait. This. Is Rude??