Buffs

[rifraf]

Are we doing this again? Alright...

I know Li Mei literally just received some attention in the latest patches but I'd like to bring your attention in specific play styles that I think could be unlocked.

Zoning Li Mei. I understand this may not be the most popular way of playing the character but she has the tools necessary for it. She does need some additions though.

Fullscreen zoning Li Mei could be unlocked imo if she had an EXlantern that auto-ignites in the end. There could be a short version that ignites twice as fast as the current regular one, and a long version that ignites at the speed of the current regular one.
How could this move be useful? Using the long version in fullscreen setups where you throw one out and zone with projectiles, or by choosing the short version and engage forward. Either way, the EXlantern will add zoning pressure.
Making her EXprojectile a mid. Arguably a very powerful change for all play styles that may be too powerful in some occasions but it does open up the character so I think it should be in the discussion.
Her regular airdb4 being safe on block is also crucial in her mid screen zoning. Why? It adds variety. Yes, f3 is ok for serving the same purpose but airdb4 requires skill to execute perfectly every single time and I feel players shouldn't be punished for taking the time to learn a more skilled version of a technically similar tool.

Not tied to zoning, but I'd appreciate a new mid after b3. It won't transform the gameplay but it will add some variety and make fishing for b34 punishing easier.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Ehhh she’s in an ok spot right now. The buffs she just got help, she now requires less meter/commitment.
She’s not top 10, but she’s decent and in a good spot I think.

If she were to get any buffs

Enhanced lantern (db2 ex)

• startups up in half the time
• can be dash cancelled

Make f44 gapless
Make f43 -6 on block, but last hit hits high.

Make aerial db4 ex -6 regardless of flawless block.

 

[kabelfritz]

Are we doing this again? Alright...

I know Li Mei literally just received some attention in the latest patches but I'd like to bring your attention in specific play styles that I think could be unlocked.

Zoning Li Mei. I understand this may not be the most popular way of playing the character but she has the tools necessary for it. She does need some additions though.

Fullscreen zoning Li Mei could be unlocked imo if she had an EXlantern that auto-ignites in the end. There could be a short version that ignites twice as fast as the current regular one, and a long version that ignites at the speed of the current regular one.
How could this move be useful? Using the long version in fullscreen setups where you throw one out and zone with projectiles, or by choosing the short version and engage forward. Either way, the EXlantern will add zoning pressure.
Making her EXprojectile a mid. Arguably a very powerful change for all play styles that may be too powerful in some occasions but it does open up the character so I think it should be in the discussion.
Her regular airdb4 being safe on block is also crucial in her mid screen zoning. Why? It adds variety. Yes, f3 is ok for serving the same purpose but airdb4 requires skill to execute perfectly every single time and I feel players shouldn't be punished for taking the time to learn a more skilled version of a technically similar tool.

Not tied to zoning, but I'd appreciate a new mid after b3. It won't transform the gameplay but it will add some variety and make fishing for b34 punishing easier.

sorry but other characters want to play the game too. you want tons of safe, gapless block pressure and mixups that can be started anywhere on screen, basically a toolset with only up- and no downsides. this is not what makes a fighting game fun. the fun comes from different archetypes who can play out their strenghts but also have to work around their weaknesses and actually dont get much for free without a degree of good decisionmaking. the fun does not come from pushing a safe button in neutral and then hitting ridiculous blockstrings on your opponent until he guesses wrong.

 

[rifraf]

you want tons of safe, gapless block pressure and mixups

What? I'm not sure why you're quoting me. Is it about the EXprojectile being a mid? I'm confused. Did you read the rest?

the fun does not come from pushing a safe button in neutral and then hitting ridiculous blockstrings

What are you talking about?

 

[kabelfritz]

What? I'm not sure why you're quoting me. Is it about the EXprojectile being a mid? I'm confused. Did you read the rest?



What are you talking about?

are you even aware of the options this would give you in melee setups? an auto-explode lantern could close any gap or make any mixup safe.

 

[rifraf]

are you even aware of the options this would give you in melee setups?

I understand the EXbf1 being a mid could be very powerful, that's why I said that in my original message. Although it would open up the character, I concede it may probably be too powerful. I don't have strong feelings about it, but I thought it should have been in the discussion that's all.

an auto-explode lantern could close any gap or make any mixup safe.

I get what you're saying but the point for it would be to add pressure, not closing gaps or adding mixups which Li Mei doesn't have btw.
Li Mei has almost no presence fullscreen, even though she has one of the coolest zoning tools. The lantern. She gets out zoned by half the cast.

 

[kabelfritz]

I understand the EXprojectile being a mid could be very powerful, that's why I said that in my original message. Although it would open up the character, I concede it may probably be too powerful. I don't have strong feelings about it, but I thought it should have been in the discussion that's all.

i was talking about EN Lantern though. mid projectile would be a problem on top of that. like safe, launching and now also mid? sure.... and then the air db 4 thing. why would that not be punishable? the fear of it alone grants you free jump-ins most of the time.

 

[rifraf]

and then the air db 4 thing. why would that not be punishable? the fear of it alone grants you free jump-ins most of the time.

I don't think airdb4 grants free jump-ins. I feel it's a cool move that is very high risk, low reward. What does Li Mei get out of it that it needs to be full combo punishable on block?

 

[kabelfritz]

I don't think airdb4 grants free jump-ins. I feel it's a cool move that is very high risk, low reward. What does Li Mei get out of it that it needs to be full combo punishable on block?

a mixup every time she jumps? extended range? the option to MB it for safety?

 

[rifraf]

a mixup every time she jumps? extended range? the option to MB it for safety?

You can't meter burn like MK11 though. EXdb4 is a commitment, it's a different move.

What's the jump mixup with airdb4? I genuinely don't know.

 

[Pan1cMode]

a mixup every time she jumps? extended range? the option to MB it for safety?

I mean there’s no mixup from a jump; it either hits overhead or overhead.

You’re not MB it, you’re enhancing it. You have to commit to the bar as you use it. And even then, the enhanced version isn’t safe. Has a very easily flawless blocked hit which makes it very punishable

The range I’ll give you.

Having said that, I think it’s fine and doesn’t need a buff; but you’re either misinformed or being dishonest if you’re gonna talk about it like that.

 

[rifraf]

Having said that, I think it’s fine and doesn’t need a buff

I think it depends on your play style as well. For me, since I play more of a zoning style it would be quite useful if it was -7 on block. It wouldn't really change the character. You'd still lose your turn, but at least you'd have a formidable midscreen tool that won't kill you if it gets blocked. The EX version is a launcher but it's still BS you get full combo punished if it gets flawless blocked.

Some of these safeguards make no sense to me considering what's in the game.

 

[kabelfritz]

I mean there’s no mixup from a jump; it either hits overhead or overhead.

You’re not MB it, you’re enhancing it. You have to commit to the bar as you use it. And even then, the enhanced version isn’t safe. Has a very easily flawless blocked hit which makes it very punishable

The range I’ll give you.

Having said that, I think it’s fine and doesn’t need a buff; but you’re either misinformed or being dishonest if you’re gonna talk about it like that.

the mixup is to anti-air or not to anti-air.

 

[rifraf]

the mixup is to anti-air or not to anti-air.

Ok. Let's explore this "mixup" then.

1. If Li Mei chooses to airdb4 while in the air while you try to AA, she gets a knockdown.
2. If Li Mei chooses to airdb4 while in the air and you block, you full combo punish her.
3. If Li Mei chooses NOT to airdb4 while in the air and you choose to AA, you full combo punish her.
4. If Li Mei chooses NOT to airdb4 while in the air and you choose to block, she gets what every character in the game gets.

In conclusion, this is not a mixup. And even in the scenario you were to stretch it, it would NOT be in favour of the Li Mei player.

 

[kabelfritz]

i dont even know why have to explain how powerful air cancels are in an actual match, not just in theory. if its safe, her worst option is to get in for free. not even mentioning that there are characters in the cast whose only options are poke or throw against -7.

 

[rifraf]

if its safe, her worst option is to get in for free.

How is it free if she’s -7? Are we playing the same game? Free would in fact be if she was plus or neutral.

 

[kabelfritz]

How is it free if she’s -7? Are we playing the same game? Free would in fact be if she was plus or neutral.

i just told you, a game where not even every character has mids fast enough to start a meaningful counteroffense against -7

 

[rifraf]

i just told you, a game where not even every character has mids fast enough to start a meaningful counteroffense against -7

I’m sorry man but you’re being dishonest here. This has nothing to do with the character or the move in this topic. That’s an issue you seem to have with the game in general since this applies to every character in the game. You don’t want meaningful counter offence as you say. You want guaranteed counter offence with no counter play whatsoever lol

Again, not really relevant to this thread but if you want to open a discussion about it, feel free to make a new thread about it.

 

[Pan1cMode]

the mixup is to anti-air or not to anti-air.

The mixup is up block vs. not up block; which is the same thing she (and every other character) gets off a jump in.

 

[rifraf]

The mixup is up block vs. not up block; which is the same thing she (and every other character) gets off a jump in.

I gave it some thought and I think it makes sense if airdb4 was -7 on block, but -14 if they up block it. That's some healthy counterplay. The flawless block punish on EXairdb4 has got to go.

There we go, brand new moves for Li Mei we couldn't use before against average and above average players

 

[kabelfritz]

I’m sorry man but you’re being dishonest here. This has nothing to do with the character or the move in this topic. That’s an issue you seem to have with the game in general since this applies to every character in the game. You don’t want meaningful counter offence as you say. You want guaranteed counter offence with no counter play whatsoever lol

Again, not really relevant to this thread but if you want to open a discussion about it, feel free to make a new thread about it.

and you want guaranteed safety form a jump-in i guess? again, there are characters who dont have mids or lows faster than 15 frames. in that case you can get in their face at -7 and either duck-punish their high or throw attempt or block a poke and get rolling yourself again. i'm staying with my opinion, safe air db4 would make li mei absolutely braindead. she already has some of the best damage, good plusframes (not everyone has these) and one of the best runaway games in MK1. where else do you want her to be? do you play other characters to put her in context? i havent played li mei much in the full game but got 500 beta matches with her and never struggled, even when sub still had unscaled damage.

 

[kabelfritz]

The mixup is up block vs. not up block; which is the same thing she (and every other character) gets off a jump in.

not every other character can cancel their jump in into a non-anti-airable special though.

 

[rifraf]

i'm staying with my opinion, safe air db4 would make li mei absolutely braindead

Absolutely, and that's fine. You're still wrong btw and probably don't understand the character or the discussion here very well, but it is what it is I suppose. lol

 

[kabelfritz]

Absolutely, and that's fine. You're still wrong btw and probably don't understand the character or the discussion here very well, but it is what it is I suppose. lol

cherrypicking single sentences from a whole posting and then personal attacks? you win this discussion i guess. all i know is that i dont want a character like li mei sitting in my face for free. she is on the stronger side already.

 

[Pan1cMode]

not every other character can cancel their jump in into a non-anti-airable special though.

I mean, it is anti-airable (trust me, I get anti aired from it all the time), but I get where you’re coming from. Being able to alter your jump arc is strong.

However looking at similar moves:

• sub zero dive kick (full combo meterless and much safer)
• nitara dive kick (full combo meterless, and safe on block without flawless block-ability)
• sindel float (meterless)
• Omni man air dash (meterless)
• homelander flight (meterless and full combo)
• reptile drop (cancel option + in is extensions)
• Ermac flight + drop (actually 50/50 + meterless options)

Again, I think she doesn’t need it to be safe, but I don’t think you’re representing her well, or understand the way she plays well, based on what you’ve stated.

For you to bring out the beta, as if the game (and li mei) haven’t fundamentally changed is disingenuous.