MK1 Nov. 9, 2023 Update Patch Notes

[Amplified$hotz]

No Sub-Zero buffs is super disappointing.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

No Sub-Zero buffs is super disappointing.

Believe it or not Sikander told them not to buff Sub

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1722300940428980316

The top players are saying Sub is a solid character. That he's lame and hard to use but has a solid run away/punish kit.
But I think he should get buffs, jmo

 

[Amplified$hotz]

Believe it or not Sikander told them not to buff Sub

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1722300940428980316

The top players are saying Sub is a solid character. That he's lame and hard to use but has a solid run away/punish kit.
But I think he should get buffs, jmo

They’re wrong. He needs help. He’s hard to use because he’s bad. He doesn’t have solid runaway, he runs away because that’s all he can do 70% of the time.

With all due respect I don’t want to hear anything about solid when characters like Johnny Cage, Kenshi, and now Omniman are walking around.

All these characters get these cool abilities, but Sub-Zero’s move set is centered around a move from 1995. And even that one thing was nerfed into oblivion compared to past klones.

 

[Gito666]

I think Beta Sub was damn near perfect. If we could just have that back, I wouldn't ask for any other buffs

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

They’re wrong. He needs help. He’s hard to use because he’s bad. He doesn’t have solid runaway, he runs away because that’s all he can do 70% of the time.

With all due respect I don’t want to hear anything about solid when characters like Johnny Cage, Kenshi, and now Omniman are walking around.

All these characters get these cool abilities, but Sub-Zero’s move set is centered around a move from 1995. And even that one thing was nerfed into oblivion compared to past klones.

What's the smallest buffs you think they could give that would fix most of his problems?
I'm assuming they are going to only do minor buffs going forward

I also feel he is bad compared to S Tiers, he should have that many gaps, be that punishable on everything.
Only thing he has going for him is Kameos making the overhead and slide safe and his slide turning into launching Armor with Goro and having that mid clone push IMO.
But his buttons are pretty bad when compared to half the cast.
Who the F gives a standing 1 string a gap?

 

[Ptehu]

I think Beta Sub was damn near perfect. If we could just have that back, I wouldn't ask for any other buffs

I havent play the beta much and I cant recall but where in recent tierlist would you and others place beta Sub?

 

[Gito666]

I havent play the beta much and I cant recall but where in recent tierlist would you and others place beta Sub?

I'm no expert by any means, but after seeing the meta develop, I think Beta Sub would have been exactly in the middle of the tier list, if not just a touch above the middle. I'd be very interested to hear others' thoughts tho

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I havent play the beta much and I cant recall but where in recent tierlist would you and others place beta Sub?

Probably A+ like Rain, unless I'm missing something I didn't see anything more broke than current Top5 S Tiers.
But it seems many are just terrified of Sub being good, like they have PTSD. Kind of like how everyone freaked out about Crystalline Armor before it was revealed Tremor had Crystalline

 

[Demon_0]

You know, I'd be fine if they just restored Sub's damage to what it was in the beta. Having his full beta version would be great but thats never going to happen, especially with the top tier nerfs of the last patch.

I made it to God rank with Sub/Sareena and Sub/Goro but some MU's are really frustrating to deal with in his current state.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

What's the smallest buffs you think they could give that would fix most of his problems?
I'm assuming they are going to only do minor buffs going forward

I also feel he is bad compared to S Tiers, he should have that many gaps, be that punishable on everything.
Only thing he has going for him is Kameos making the overhead and slide safe and his slide turning into launching Armor with Goro and having that mid clone push IMO.
But his buttons are pretty bad when compared to half the cast.
Who the F gives a standing 1 string a gap?

Yeah his buttons are bad because NRS doesn’t want to make him too good because he has an Ice Klone. So they should at least make Ice Klone really good.

I would really reduce the recovery on klone. So that it’s not punishable on reaction, but on a read. This would allow him to do klone cancels, and actually have the runaway game people claim he has.

You haven’t known true pain until a Shao Kahn, Kitana, Smoke, etc. punishes you with a fatal blow for doing klone from 1/4 screen away.

 

[Amplified$hotz]

I havent play the beta much and I cant recall but where in recent tierlist would you and others place beta Sub?

A+ tier at least. He could actually do great damage on his own. He actually had korner traps. And his mid was 12 frames so he could whiff punish and stagger better.

I think he’d have no losing match ups, but he’d still struggle against certain kameos.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Smoke needs buffs

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Smoke needs buffs

Like what, only thing I'd like is some of his cancels to actually be plus since he doesn't really have mids most of his pressure is highs, at least what you'd cancel into that fast enough is all highs. It would at least make them strong with counterplay for example cancel into poke to beat them trying to punish his highs but if they block they get a poke/throw punish on reaction, if he does the high after cancel they can poke on read.
Idk I like cancel characters

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

You know, I'd be fine if they just restored Sub's damage to what it was in the beta. Having his full beta version would be great but thats never going to happen, especially with the top tier nerfs of the last patch.

I made it to God rank with Sub/Sareena and Sub/Goro but some MU's are really frustrating to deal with in his current state.

I basically dropped Sub after day 1 patch but, I'd give him:

1. Less recovery on clone where Kung Laos Armor can't punish clone on reaction. The clone isn't active long so you can't do throw into clone. Just enough recovery that he can't walk in front of clone but can safely block.
2. His 12 jab strong Remove Gap. That's a crime to put a gap in a Characters only poke jailing string.
3. Increase his meterless damage to 35% and one bar to 44%. I feel like that's plenty fair compared to the current S/A+ roster. Remember most characters sit in A+

Rain is placed Mid Tier by pros now and he is lower A+.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Like what,

His armor seems to be worse than everyone elses, when im sub zero i can ex slide through oki, but as smoke the top tiers rip through that armor. Does he have less armor frames or something?

 

[Eji1700]

They’re wrong. He needs help. He’s hard to use because he’s bad. He doesn’t have solid runaway, he runs away because that’s all he can do 70% of the time.

With all due respect I don’t want to hear anything about solid when characters like Johnny Cage, Kenshi, and now Omniman are walking around.

All these characters get these cool abilities, but Sub-Zero’s move set is centered around a move from 1995. And even that one thing was nerfed into oblivion compared to past klones.

I'd also take sik's stances with a grain of salt. There's 0 doubt he's a phenomenal player, but he'll also win a set vs say, honeybee, and then say "imagine if sub wasn't trash".

Point being, i'm not sure if he thinks sub is "fine" or if he thinks sub is better as trash because reasons (i've long ago given up on trying to determine real intent from internet personalities).

 

[Amplified$hotz]

I'd also take sik's stances with a grain of salt. There's 0 doubt he's a phenomenal player, but he'll also win a set vs say, honeybee, and then say "imagine if sub wasn't trash".

Point being, i'm not sure if he thinks sub is "fine" or if he thinks sub is better as trash because reasons (i've long ago given up on trying to determine real intent from internet personalities).

He just doesn’t want everyone to start picking up Sub-Zero because it’s apart of his brand.

Everyone in the community has their own agenda. Including the people designing the game.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

He just doesn’t want everyone to start picking up Sub-Zero because it’s apart of his brand.

Everyone in the community has their own agenda. Including the people designing the game.

I think it's because he wants to use the Sub is garbage line when he loses and be able to ride that blanket of security.
Sikander has new beef match every week, got to be the most toxic guy on NRS games. He was calling Tweedy out a week ago because Tweedy beat him on KL and called him a fat FuQ and to kill himself.
No doubt he's a good player but he isn't SonicFox Ninjakilla Xombat Dragon Rewind level.
And I also question his Tier list placements. If it was up to him every character would be nerfed to Subs level.

 

[LionHeart V1]

I don't think Sub needs a damage buff. He does good damage with Sareena. The only buffs I would want is a faster recovery on ice clone, make his mid like it was in the beta, and for the love of good make it where if people touch any part of the clone they get frozen. What's with all this nonsense of characters literally standing inside the clone and extending their entire arms through it and not getting frozen.

 

[trufenix]

I honestly thought that Kenshi throw bug was on purpose.

 

[trufenix]

You guys know the goal of buffing and nerfing isn't just to increase / reduce the number of times a character gets picked, right?

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

I don't think Sub needs a damage buff. He does good damage with Sareena. The only buffs I would want is a faster recovery on ice clone, make his mid like it was in the beta, and for the love of good make it where if people touch any part of the clone they get frozen. What's with all this nonsense of characters literally standing inside the clone and extending their entire arms through it and not getting frozen.

They aren't going to do that. What they did to clone is not by accident. They've had 2 games besides MK1 with this clone issue. I can hear MKTomBrady right now, probably making another MKX "Klone is Not Functioning Properly" video as we speak.
They either hate Sub Zero and his Clone or they hate Tom Brady, can't tell which at this point.

I fear if clone gets less recovery, which I'd Love to have and feel is very much deserved, that the entire Pro scene would have an aneurysm and pitchfork with Tiki Torches and signs saying "Nerf Broke Clone" until Sub was completely burried. And a 13f F12 mid isn't that crazy of a change considering everyone else has 11f-13f mids and Johnny's 9f mid.

I think Sub deserves some buffs. Hopefully they actually buff him and not everyone around him. Probably be 2-3 months if that happens.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

You really have to wonder what they were thinking when they chose the Kameo attack that give plus frames on block to be a low projectile. When you equip Lao, you get +2 on block, one of the best projectiles in the whole game, and hard-to-blockables, all from one move. Cage gets to cover up his weakness (no projectile), accentuate his strengths, and become a setup character. Truly, what were they cooking?

To me, common sense has to prevail and they need to redistribute the utility of Low Hat. Make it -6 on block and make something like Frost neutral assist +2 on block. If you want a fantastic projectile use Lao but you don't get plus frames anymore, and if you want the plus frames use Frost but you don't get the best projectile.

 

[Bulletz4Breakfast]

Well maybe someone can find a better Reset, my brain is fried right now.
Sindel Jax Unblockable Reset. I've got 60% but I know there is more. They claimed you can't pop them up from crouch block anymore but I can still do it, it's just a little different timing and a bit tight,:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1723244751464366160

I know there has to be a sequence that forces 3-4 loops

 

[M2Dave]

I don't think Sub needs a damage buff. He does good damage with Sareena. The only buffs I would want is a faster recovery on ice clone, make his mid like it was in the beta, and for the love of good make it where if people touch any part of the clone they get frozen. What's with all this nonsense of characters literally standing inside the clone and extending their entire arms through it and not getting frozen.

The ice clone, when very good, slows down the pace of the match and also locks down opponents in the corner, both of which casual gamers despise. The entire game has been designed around closing the distance without any difficulties, performing strings, and hit-confirming into combos. There is no better example than Omni-Man, who has been custom tailored for beginners. The point is that the ice clone is unlikely to receive any meaningful buffs because the move would interfere with how NRS would like the game to play. Zoning is weak for this reason too, particularly now with the addition of Omni-Man.