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Kenshi general discussion.

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
not a all .... sure, he has now a ton of tools, but :

  1. His sento ghost is pretty good, but, only if Kenshi is not hit while the ghost is in the screen so, the risk / reward is fair
  2. Once the ghost vanishes, Kenshi is locked to the Sento instance and cannot summon the ghost again, only if he goes for the normal stance and does the Sento Stance again, so, is a limitation needed for this mechanic
  3. Using the Sento Stance without the ghost, make Kenshi very limited for combos and special moves
  4. During the ghost stance, you cannot use the kameo mechanic, so, is a trade stuff fair enough
So, Kenshi is very technical character, very good, but, demands lots of good setup and very situational chances and opportunity, so, once everyone have the game and is used to it, they will know how to deal with Kenshi, wait and see !

Liu Kang looked much more broken than Kenshi so far until now !
 
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QUAN CHEEZY

Buff Havik
not a all .... sure, he has now a ton of tools, but :

  1. His sento ghost is pretty good, but, only if Kenshi is not hit while the ghost is in the screen so, the risk / reward is fair
  2. Once the ghost vanishes, Kenshi is locked to the Sento instance and cannot summon the ghost again, only if he goes for the normal stance and does the Sento Stance again, so, is a limitation needed for this mechanic
  3. Using the Sento Stance without the ghost, make Kenshi very limited for combos and special moves
  4. During the ghost stance, you cannot use the kameo mechanic, so, is a trade stuff fair enough
So, Kenshi is very technical character, very good, but, demands lots of good setup and very situational chances and opportunity, so, once everyone have the game and is used to it, they will know how to deal with Kenshi, wait and see !

Liu Kang looked much more broken than Kenshi so far until now !
Agree with everything you said but Kenshi can actually re-summon the ghost without changing stances by doing amplified db2 and still seems pretty fair as it will cost one bar and needs some setup unless your opponent isn't pressuring you at all.

I still think NRS will give him a slight nerf like reducing the time ghost stays out or reducing chip damage etc.
 
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Immortal

Blind justice....
Kenshi is fine as is.

People just don't want to see any shortcomings of the puppet, all they see is OP OP OP pressure, coz of Sonic and game knowledge of 2 days.....

To add to what already was said here:

  1. You can interrupt some of the puppet pressure options with pokes or just armor throu, there are gaps
  2. Most of the setups to summon the puppet are NOT REAL, you can blow them up unless spaced out of reach on HDK
  3. Kenshi is VERY limited in Sento stance and without the puppet his core moveset is pretty poor compared to the likes of Liu Kang or even Sub Zero.
 

xenogorgeous

.... they mostly come at night. Mostly.
yep Sonicfox was killing with Kenshi in the stress test, that's for sure, but, people are not familiar with the match up , and so, not defending properly , or try to interrup the stance string, or abuse of making the stance ghost puppet useless when you press Kenshi enough , so, being passive and ultra defensive against Kenshi when he has the ghost stance active, is a major mistake indeed

The character is fair, and I'm sure we will see stuff that will be much more annoying to deal with other non revealed characters so far, so, people are getting in panic mode too easy and too soon , lol !
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
I didn't have hands-on and I mostly watched Sub-Zero... Could somebody briefly explain what we were seeing with the Spirit stance pressure in those sequences. Like what are the mixups/staggers that were opening guys up so much? Are you just stuck if you don't have meter?

It does look overwhelming at a glance, but as long as we're not talking about MKX-style pseud-unblockable stuff, you'll learn it. It's also a good point you guys highlight about his weakness when the ghost disappears (to the extent that it's true).
 
D

Deleted member 59910

Guest
Kenshi is fine as is.

People just don't want to see any shortcomings of the puppet, all they see is OP OP OP pressure, coz of Sonic and game knowledge of 2 days.....

To add to what already was said here:

  1. You can interrupt some of the puppet pressure options with pokes or just armor throu, there are gaps
  2. Most of the setups to summon the puppet are NOT REAL, you can blow them up unless spaced out of reach on HDK
  3. Kenshi is VERY limited in Sento stance and without the puppet his core moveset is pretty poor compared to the likes of Liu Kang or even Sub Zero.
Instead of learning the matchup and exploiting all the weaknesses he has, let's call him OP cuz he has a unique mechanic, which at fisrt glance looks intricate and hard to defend against.
 

Immortal

Blind justice....
Instead of learning the matchup and exploiting all the weaknesses he has, let's call him OP cuz he has a unique mechanic, which at fisrt glance looks intricate and hard to defend against.
Welcome to the NRS community where the order of business is like this:

  1. First - we whine that X and Y are OP and needs to be nerfed
  2. Second - we whine that W and Z needs to be buffed coz they suck atm
  3. Third - after the nerfs and buffs - X and Y now suck, so nobody plays them anymore, W and Z are still not good enough anyway... so lets move on to Q coz he/she is the best now and say.... that the game has no balance
  4. Forth - lets whine that we didn't get the ONE LAST patch that WOULD FIX EVERYTHING.
  5. Five - new game, go to point number 1 and repeat.
Why bother with learning when you can just blame the developer no matter what they do, even if they listen to you...lmao.
 
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SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Welcome to the NRS community where the order of business is like this:

  1. First - we whine that X and Y are OP and needs to be nerfed
  2. Second - we whine that Z and Q needs to be buffed coz they suck atm
  3. Third - after the nerfs and buffs - X and Y now suck, Z and Q are not good enough anyway so lets move on to Q coz he is the best now and say it that the game have no balance
  4. Forth - lets whine that we didn't get the ONE LAST patch that WOULD FIX EVERYTHING.
  5. Five - new game, go to point number 1 and repeat.
Why bother with learning when you can just blame the developer no matter what they do, even if they listen to you...lmao.
It's the FGC. Same thing has happened in SF6 with JP. "OMG this new character is too OP. Broken zoning and EX reversal OMG nerf him too busted"

3 weeks later-

No JP made it to Top 24 at CEO this weekend, and 4 Juri's and 2 Manon's were in the Top 8.
 

NoCharge

Apprentice
Instead of learning the matchup and exploiting all the weaknesses he has, let's call him OP cuz he has a unique mechanic, which at fisrt glance looks intricate and hard to defend against.
That's why I said he LOOKS op. When training mode is available then we lab.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Really liking how Kenshi plays! I think he has super strong potential since you can use the puppet while blocking.
 

Cicada 5

Mortal
It's odd to see Kenshi without his telekinesis.

I fully expect to see a lot of Kenshi is Vergil (Devil May Cry) memes.
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
It's the FGC. Same thing has happened in SF6 with JP. "OMG this new character is too OP. Broken zoning and EX reversal OMG nerf him too busted"

3 weeks later-

No JP made it to Top 24 at CEO this weekend, and 4 Juri's and 2 Manon's were in the Top 8.
And 2 got squashed by the goat Big Bird at kumite
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Anybody know the Sento combo notations? Kinda hard to pull off the 45% Sento combos without a practice mode to know what the Sento moves are in the combo.
 

kabelfritz

Master
Anybody know the Sento combo notations? Kinda hard to pull off the 45% Sento combos without a practice mode to know what the Sento moves are in the combo.
what exactly do you mean?

when kenshi is in sento stance he gets a whole new set of strings. a 3-button input will cause a specific sequence by him AND sento, they cannot be mixed at will. every kenshi string is tied to a specific sento string. actually i believe the first string button will determine what sento does most of the time.

or do you talk about frame data? the notation is simply uncomplete atm. kameos, double inputs, puppets, no data for these.
 

QUAN CHEEZY

Buff Havik
Anybody know the Sento combo notations? Kinda hard to pull off the 45% Sento combos without a practice mode to know what the Sento moves are in the combo.
The main one is something like:

F22xxDB1, Kano knife toss, Ghost2, F221, Ghost3, S4xxDB3, Ghost3, S4xxDB4

(You can AMP the DB4 for more damage + keeping the ghost on same side as you)
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
The main one is something like:

F22xxDB1, Kano knife toss, Ghost2, F221, Ghost3, S4xxDB3, Ghost3, S4xxDB4

(You can AMP the DB4 for more damage + keeping the ghost on same side as you)
This is what I meant, it's a starting point thanks and I'll experiment.
 

QUAN CHEEZY

Buff Havik
when kenshi is in sento stance he gets a whole new set of strings. a 3-button input will cause a specific sequence by him AND sento, they cannot be mixed at will. every kenshi string is tied to a specific sento string. actually i believe the first string button will determine what sento does most of the time.
You can mix them at will, when the ghost is out, holding R1/RB will make it so you only control Kenshi and holding block will make it so you're only controlling the ghost.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean

This is what I meant, it's a starting point thanks and I'll experiment.
Np, I would probably ignore the Kano knife toss stuff to begin with, just switch to sento stance then start the combo from F221 at first until you get the hang of controlling both of them at the same time.
 

QUAN CHEEZY

Buff Havik
Also have they nerfed the knife toss stuff in Kenshi's mid-screen optimal? unless I just suck I don't think it's a true combo anymore...

I didn't notice it when I was playing online but after Kano knife toss, the second hit of Ghost2 can be blocked.

Can anyone else confirm?

Edit: They did :( Hayatei confirmed on stream
 
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kabelfritz

Master
You can mix them at will, when the ghost is out, holding R1/RB will make it so you only control Kenshi and holding block will make it so you're only controlling the ghost.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean


Np, I would probably ignore the Kano knife toss stuff to begin with, just switch to sento stance then start the combo from F221 at first until you get the hang of controlling both of them at the same time.
ah, i didnt know the block thing. but still when you want to use both at the same time, you can only use their set strings but not mix one of kenshis with an arbitrary one of seitos.