MK1 "might" be the game we all really wanted, if it manages to check all the boxes

[SixPathsOfHate]

This doesn't make sense. Variations were mainly based around splitting a single character's legacy/new moveset into discrete groupings, with the option to only use a few at a time. Sonya cannot use Jacqui's leap.

Kameos are universal to the entire cast, and each character retains their entire legacy moveset without dividing it up. If you want to use an ability, you use it, regardless of what character you pick, and it's tied to its own meter. It will not replace any of the default moves that were designed specifically for your character. Adding a new Kameo to the cast adds the moves for everyone.

They could not be more different from each other.

I think what they mean by them being similar is that variations provided a different flavor of the character but still had the identity of the character in tact.

Kameos do something similar because you are still playing your character but will most likely play them differently based on your kameo [variation]

The fact other characters can use this is not relevant as the point is kameos [variations] will be different for everyone.

Ashrah playing with Frost will be different than Havik playing with Frost
Frost is the variation of Ashrah and Havik. They would play differently based on the kameo [variation] because they are different characters and they use kaemos differently.

 

[Gooberking]

"We" is pretty broad. I currently have significantly less interest in MK1 than any fighting game up coming or has been released in the last few years.

People seem excited for it, so that's cool. Maybe I'll catch the bug for it if I get roped into playing at some point, but a lot of what people are excited about really doesn't interest me. I didn't think I'd play MK11 either so who knows. Watching might be a good time and I'll want to keep tabs on the NRS crew, so I'll be paying attention to what is going on.

 

[kabelfritz]

This doesn't make sense. Variations were mainly based around splitting a single character's legacy/new moveset into discrete groupings, with the option to only use a few at a time. Sonya cannot use Jacqui's leap.

Kameos are universal to the entire cast, and each character retains their entire legacy moveset without dividing it up. If you want to use an ability, you use it, regardless of what character you pick, and it's tied to its own meter. It will not replace any of the default moves that were designed specifically for your character. Adding a new Kameo to the cast adds the moves for everyone.

They could not be more different from each other.

but, purely in a linguistic sense, playing raiden with sonya or playing raiden with sareena are two different variations of playing raiden, even though variation means something different than in past mks. but the gameplay of a charcater "varies" depending on the kameo moveset complementing his core moveset.

but you could also strive away from talking characters and only talk teams (which is likely the way to go imo).

 

[Rude]

but, purely in a linguistic sense, playing raiden with sonya or playing raiden with sareena are two different variations of playing raiden, even though variation means something different than in past mks. but the gameplay of a charcater "varies" depending on the kameo moveset complementing his core moveset.

but you could also strive away from talking characters and only talk teams (which is likely the way to go imo).

So in Marvel 3, if my point man is Dante and my 2nd and 3rds are MODOK and Iron Man(not a real story lol yeah I did this), and next time I made Dante point man again but used Morrigan and Phoenix as my second and thirds, would you say that I'm playing a different variation of Dante?

Granted, it's not a 1-to-1 comparison but comparisons don't have to be.

 

[Gooberking]

I don't think anyone viewing Kameos as a flavor of variations are in any way wrong for drawing that conclusion just because there are some functional differences and opportunities between what we have had and the kameos. Viewed abstractly enough they are both modifying a character. Implementations have certain nuances so if you need those to line up maybe you won't see them as the same, but I don't know that anyone is wrong either way.

Permutations wise, kameos will have some sky high numbers

 

[M2Dave]

So in Marvel 3, if my point man is Dante and my 2nd and 3rds are MODOK and Iron Man(not a real story lol yeah I did this), and next time I made Dante point man again but used Morrigan and Phoenix as my second and thirds, would you say that I'm playing a different variation of Dante?

You are not because MvC3 does not have "only kameo" characters, whose only purpose in the game is to act as assists. MvC3 has complete characters who can perform more than three or four special moves at a time. MvC1 had a similar gameplay mechanic to kameos... in 1998.

Forget this argument, though, linguistics or otherwise. The game was arguably supposed to be 2 vs. 2, but balancing a tag team fighting game is a challenging task that takes time. WB needs to make money ASAP.

 

[The Ultimate]

I see the argument that Kameos are more of an evolved take on MKX/11 variations, but I'm starting to feel like it's also reminiscent of something like Capcom vs SNK 2 grooves or Fighting EX Layer gougis. While many of the Kameos just grant you extra attacks and that's it, we've also seen that there's stuff like Kung Lao teleport, Sub-Zero ice armor and Scorpion spear, where they're granting you more utility, not just more offense.

In the case of KL's teleport and SZ ice armor specifically, I don't think they're summon assists; meaning you have to stop your momentum to let the Kameo come out and do their thing. I think they're ambush assists, meaning you can just call them anytime outside of hitstun/blockstun without halting your momentum.

Imagine if you could throw a full screen projectile, and use KL kameo teleport to get right in their face as they're blocking the projectile. Or do a blockstring, call KL kameo teleport during it to potentially extend pressure. I'm reminded of Fighting EX Layer gougi where it turned your dash into a teleport.

And in the case of Sub-Zero ice armor assist, that assist makes you projectile immune ala Jade's glow. Imagine if you could give any MK11 character MK9 Jade's glow, where you just do it, and it doesn't halt your momentum. Imagine if someone like Baraka had that, who really struggled against zoners in MK11.


That's just scratching the surface. What if Scorpion's spear assist was an ambush, and you could use it midscreen during a risky mix-up to cover your ass in case your mix fails. And we don't even know what assists like Sareena's rune does, or even who the remaining few Kameos are and what they do.

 

[Rude]

You are not because MvC3 does not have "only kameo" characters, whose only purpose in the game is to act as assists. MvC3 has complete characters who can perform more than three or four special moves at a time. MvC1 had a similar gameplay mechanic to kameos... in 1998.

Forget this argument, though, linguistics or otherwise. The game was arguably supposed to be 2 vs. 2, but balancing a tag team fighting game is a challenging task that takes time. WB needs to make money ASAP.

MK1 has complete characters, sir. This idea that they're not is something that exists only in your head.

Kameos will certainly change how a character plays, but it does not subtract from a character's existing moveset.

If you saw that Geras breakdown and thought, "this isn't a complete character," then you're not living in reality.

 

[M2Dave]

Kameos will certainly change how a character plays, but it does not subtract from a character's existing moveset.

So, there will be no kameo only characters who can only be utilized as assists and thus only have access to four special moves (i.e., subtraction of a character's move list)?

 

[Rude]

So, there will be no kameo only characters who can only be utilized as assists and thus only have access to four special moves (i.e., subtraction of a character's move list)?

That's not even remotely what I was talking about.

 

[Jynks]

I just don't even think of kaneos as a "character".. They are just a move set to add to your actual playable character.

 

[Juxtapose]

I just don't even think of kaneos as a "character".. They are just a move set to add to your actual playable character.

I basically see them as an enhanced version of the "tag assist" characters from Towers of Time, or Tag Assists from Mortal Kombat (2011). They are not a "playable" part of the Roster and are generally a glorified Konsumable in the form of a character.

I was surprised to see how many people have been asking for Tag Kombat over the last several years. Looks like they're getting it. After a fashion, at least.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I think what they mean by them being similar is that variations provided a different flavor of the character but still had the identity of the character in tact.

Kameos do something similar because you are still playing your character but will most likely play them differently based on your kameo [variation]

Kameos are only assists, though — they have limitations to their use, and can't be used in certain situations where a special can be. And they essentially have nothing to do with your character, but rather some other character. The movesets aren't built around the meta of whoever you're playing.

Here's one example: if you have a character that has a quick-recovering fireball that you can throw constantly, you might be able to function as a zoner. If you're like Cage with no fireball though, adding a Kameo with a fireball is something you can only use twice before it goes into recovery. Cage doesn't truly become a zoner because the Kameo has limitations/can't truly replace a real special move.

So I think ultimately, this is an assist, not a variation. Assists do allow you to do some different things, but they are not the same type of mechanic.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Kameos are only assists, though — they have limitations to their use, and can't be used in certain situations where a special can be. And they essentially have nothing to do with your character, but rather some other character. The movesets aren't built around the meta of whoever you're playing.

Here's one example: if you have a character that has a quick-recovering fireball that you can throw constantly, you might be able to function as a zoner. If you're like Cage with no fireball though, adding a Kameo with a fireball is something you can only use twice before it goes into recovery. Cage doesn't truly become a zoner because the Kameo has limitations/can't truly replace a real special move.

So I think ultimately, this is an assist, not a variation. Assists do allow you to do some different things, but they are not the same type of mechanic.

its not a 1:1 but it is similar in the concept. Similar enough that people are making the comparison.

 

[Jynks]

Kameos are only assists, though — they have limitations to their use, and can't be used in certain situations where a special can be. And they essentially have nothing to do with your character, but rather some other character. The movesets aren't built around the meta of whoever you're playing.

??? what?

• Specials can be used anytime you like.... so can assists, but on cooldown (cooldowns are nothing new to the FGC)
• While Specials can be used anytime you like, there are only certain situations when you "should" use them.. same for Kemeos.
• Specials are moves you do an input for to get an effect, tool or some other action on screen... same for Kemeos.
• Specials and Kameos are almost IDENTICAL.
• Kameos ARE specials, almost.

All Kameos are is a group of moves you can add to your character to enhance them... just like variations. I do not even understand how people in this thread are saying anything different. Ed Boon even said in the interview they are variations, but a new version. The exact quote was something about them brainstorming variations and someone said "what if everyone could use Sonya's drone".

I do not think anyone is saying Kameos are identical to how variations used to work, or identical to a special, but they are functionally identical. Kemoes are just specials move sets you can add to your character.. how is this a conversation?

 

[Zviko]

Can’t you all just agree that Kameo feature is a variation of variations and be done with it.

 

[M2Dave]

Can’t you all just agree that Kameo feature is a variation of variations and be done with it.

No. I choose to remain in denial because I am offended that people are criticizing Mortal Kombat 1 by making sense.