Ashrah General Discussion

[xenogorgeous]

Shouldn't this be named "Dvorah General Discussion Thread"??

maybe "D'vorah in disguise General Discussion Thread" ........

 

[Vslayer]

Shouldn't this be named "Dvorah General Discussion Thread"??

I HATE YOU LMFAO YOU FOUL

 

[Pterodactyl]

She’s perfect.
Everything I wanted, and she even has a hat option.

she or Geras will probably be the first character I take into training mode to learn in-depth.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Looks fine I suppose, not having the hat be prominently displayed is a crime. It just sucks that by the time we finally get 3D era characters back it is in some wacko universe where the original MK context, and thus everything about their characters you may have liked, no longer applies. Ashrah had a more interesting backstory than moat.

the dialogue in the trailer pretty much states her backstory is actually the same, surprisingly.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Some people suggested Sareena and Nitara are her sisters, that could be cool!

Nitara is known to be a Vampire from Vaeternus Realm, which it's like vampire realm with no Sun or something, they never really elaborated this further, unless they changed this in for this timeline specific.

But if not

The 3 sisters of Ashrah always served Quan Chi, they are Kia, Jataaka and Sareena


More of her original backstory can be found on her Deception Card



Considering the lately buzz they have been recieving lately with MK Legends Cage Match where they will be featured as well, though i think Kia and Jataaka's chance of being playable are insanely slim due to how small they roles always are, curious to see how Ashrah's story will unfold in the game, we know for sure that Quan Chi is there and fired a Skull spectre on her in the trailer,what if he isn't alone though?

 

[Shania Twain]

Ashrah is also being voiced by Susan Eisenberg. She has even confirmed this. Nice to see her returning. Her vocal talents are fitting to the character IMO. She also still does VO updates for DCUO as WW, Super Woman, Bombshell Wonder Woman, and the Red Son WW. Amazing talent.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I think they should add some sort of effect to her voice. Like double it up or pitch it down a bit or something. Even if she's purifying herself she's still a demon

 

[Vslayer]

Can't wait to see what she's about today, cause she looks like a Robin. And Robin was my boi.

 

[Temptress]

I think they should add some sort of effect to her voice. Like double it up or pitch it down a bit or something. Even if she's purifying herself she's still a demon

Has there been any indication that demons in the MK universe sound different, though? Quan Chi and Sareena had perfectly normal voices in MKX.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Has there been any indication that demons in the MK universe sound different, though? Quan Chi and Sareena had perfectly normal voices in MKX.

There's no consistency with that type of thing. Sareena had a normal voice in MKX, but Revenants had demonic voices. Sareena is back in MK1 but has a demonic voice when she goes into her demon form.

It doesn't actually matter. It's just some flavor I wish they added to the character

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Has there been any indication that demons in the MK universe sound different, though? Quan Chi and Sareena had perfectly normal voices in MKX.

I would however not call Quan Chi's voice normal, it's too damn sexy. I would found it hilarious if Ashrah had a deep masculine demon voice and wouldn't mind it just for laughs

 

[zerosebaz]

There's no consistency with that type of thing. Sareena had a normal voice in MKX, but Revenants had demonic voices. Sareena is back in MK1 but has a demonic voice when she goes into her demon form.



It doesn't actually matter. It's just some flavor I wish they added to the character

I really wish they didn't, but to each their own I guess.

 

[Cicada 5]

 

[Jynks]

Been wanting her back in MK for a long time, but I have to say... I'm not pleased with the "stance" system. I mean, she looks great, but keeping the "shadow" debuff up on the opponent and then switching to light mode and all that. I think that will be to complex for me. I will probably have to play a simpler character to run. I'll definitely give her a go, but I've not had a lot of good experiences with these kinds of systems before. If she had no stance and some moves were just dark and other light, I think that would be more my style and keep most of her concept. I dunno. The kombat kast kinda turned me off her a little. Which sucks as if you look at any of the wishlist threads from before dlc was out for mkx, I have been asking for her pretty mich every time.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

I mean this in the most nicest way possible. I just dont want to see another Release Shinnok situation again. I wasnt even an Ashrah fan before MK1 but they managed to make me one.

Ashrah's normals look great but some of her specials dont make any sense and it makes her entire kit lack any sense of direction. As it stands, she doesnt look like she does anything specific. Just long buttons with mediocre looking specials. Its not a dig on her design. Not at all. I LOVE her design but her kit needs some more fleshing out IMO.

Her Light Ghost Dash does the same thing as her Dark Ghost Dash but worse. Dark version is just straight up better as it doesnt have the slow follow up attack but still lets you do the fast follow up attack. You get to teleport to the clone directly without committing to an attack which is already better unless they make the frame data awful which sounds like a band-aid fix.

Her Light Projectile also doesnt make sense. Why would I ever use that to anti-air? It looks way too slow to be used on reaction and she has an AMAZING uppercut. It also doesnt go far at all so you arent winning in the zoning war either. To make it worse, the EX version only buffs damage so you're stuck with the shit startup speed. If it can be jumped then it loses any purpose it would've had. Like there is ZERO reason to ever use this move based on what was shown.

They can still give her a, "Voodoo-Like" special. Instead of making her Light Ghost Dash's "Slow follow Up" teleport you, instead it could place a ghost where you stop it at. From there you could:

• Make the ghost mimic the next special you do before dissipating.
• Buff the Light Projectile if it passes through the ghost. Something like extended range.

It doesnt have to be both and honestly, having it be both sounds like too much. Simply having it buff the projectile would be enough IMO when it comes to the Light on Light interactions. Less interactions would also help encourage more form switching.

Her Dark specials should also interact with the Light Ghost. If your opponent has Dark stacks on them and they touch the ghost, it should explode. It should also explode if any Dark Specials pass through it.

The form changes being timed is also an interesting choice considering Dualist Liu Kang didnt have timed forms. At the very least, I think making the form change itself an attack would be fine. They could also just let you stay in whichever form until you swap. They dont even have to change animations to have them be attacks as they both look like them already.

• Light could be an anti-air. Similar to Kotal Kahn's Sunburst if it had a hitbox
• Dark could be a low-sweep attack. Literally looks like a sweep

Them both being attacks would also let Ashrah safely switch to Dark if she already has a Light Ghost out since it would cause the ghost to explode.

These changes would open up more of a Trap/Control playstyle. Think predator mixed with ice clone sub but more reactive. This could also open up a sequence like:

1. End combo with Light Ghost Dash to set up ghost
2. Call assist for lockdown and to make form change safe
3. From that point you could:

• Use Dark Ghost Dash to pass through the Light Ghost to cause it to explode, allowing you to close the distance safely because you setup before hand.
• Use your Dark projectile to check the opponent as they probably dont want to move with the threat of the clone.
• You could place Light Ghost behind them. If far away enough, you could make specials like Kriss-Kross safe on block as you would push them into the Light Ghost and if your sword passes through it, it explodes for more blockstun. It could also give the overhead flip a follow up since you land behind them.

This would also make mind games with Light Ghost Dash actually mind games since your opponent doesnt want you to setup. If you know this then you can use the Fast Follow Up to catch them out if they try to stop you. Obviously, the Light Ghost should go away on hit.

Considering you need to setup the Light Ghost at specific distances+form switch means this isnt free. The point of the change is to give her an archetype because as it stands now, she doesnt look like she has one.

I would love to hear what other's think. I made a similar thread but I didnt go into nearly this much detail and I feel I should have.

Edit: Reformatted everything

 

[kabelfritz]

I mean this in the most nicest way possible. I just dont want to see another Release Shinnok situation again. I wasnt even an Ashrah fan before MK1 but they managed to make me one.

Ashrah's normals look great but some of her specials dont make any sense and it makes her entire kit lack any sense of direction. As it stands, she doesnt look like she does anything specific. Just long buttons with mediocre looking specials. Its not a dig on her design. Not at all. I LOVE her design but her kit needs some more fleshing out IMO.

Her Light Ghost Dash does the same thing as her Dark Ghost Dash but worse. Dark version is just straight up better as it doesnt have the slow follow up attack but still lets you do the fast follow up attack. You get to teleport to the clone directly without committing to an attack which is already better unless they make the frame data awful which sounds like a band-aid fix.

Her Light Projectile also doesnt make sense. Why would I ever use that to anti-air? It looks way too slow to be used on reaction and she has an AMAZING uppercut. It also doesnt go far at all so you arent winning in the zoning war either. To make it worse, the EX version only buffs damage so you're stuck with the shit startup speed. If it can be jumped then it loses any purpose it would've had. Like there is ZERO reason to ever use this move based on what was shown.

They can still give her a, "Voodoo-Like" special. Instead of making her Light Ghost Dash's "Slow follow Up" teleport you, instead it could place a ghost where you stop it at. From there you could:

• Make the ghost mimic the next special you do before dissipating.
• Buff the Light Projectile if it passes through the ghost. Something like extended range.

It doesnt have to be both and honestly, having it be both sounds like too much. Simply having it buff the projectile would be enough IMO when it comes to the Light on Light interactions. Less interactions would also help encourage more form switching.

Her Dark specials should also interact with the Light Ghost. If your opponent has Dark stacks on them and they touch the ghost, it should explode. It should also explode if any Dark Specials pass through it.

The form changes being timed is also an interesting choice considering Dualist Liu Kang didnt have timed forms. At the very least, I think making the form change itself an attack would be fine. They could also just let you stay in whichever form until you swap. They dont even have to change animations to have them be attacks as they both look like them already.

• Light could be an anti-air. Similar to Kotal Kahn's Sunburst if it had a hitbox
• Dark could be a low-sweep attack. Literally looks like a sweep

Them both being attacks would also let Ashrah safely switch to Dark if she already has a Light Ghost out since it would cause the ghost to explode.

These changes would open up more of a Trap/Control playstyle. Think predator mixed with ice clone sub but more reactive. This could also open up a sequence like:

1. End combo with Light Ghost Dash to set up ghost
2. Call assist for lockdown and to make form change safe
3. From that point you could:

• Use Dark Ghost Dash to pass through the Light Ghost to cause it to explode, allowing you to close the distance safely because you setup before hand.
• Use your Dark projectile to check the opponent as they probably dont want to move with the threat of the clone.
• You could place Light Ghost behind them. If far away enough, you could make specials like Kriss-Kross safe on block as you would push them into the Light Ghost and if your sword passes through it, it explodes for more blockstun. It could also give the overhead flip a follow up since you land behind them.

This would also make mind games with Light Ghost Dash actually mind games since your opponent doesnt want you to setup. If you know this then you can use the Fast Follow Up to catch them out if they try to stop you. Obviously, the Light Ghost should go away on hit.

Considering you need to setup the Light Ghost at specific distances+form switch means this isnt free. The point of the change is to give her an archetype because as it stands now, she doesnt look like she has one.

I would love to hear what other's think. I made a similar thread but I didnt go into nearly this much detail and I feel I should have.

Edit: Reformatted everything

1st of all, her moveset did look a bit low tier compared to smoke and geras, but the latter don't seem as insane anymore if you closely watch the demos again.
2nd, the presenters clearly were no ashrah experts, so we might have missed some crucial stuff. like if her side-switch jump is an overhead, what other mixup game she has, if you can jip from air ghost and probably more intricacies of the dark/light synergy.
3rd, its all in the frame data. if she is fast and safe, she might still be s-tier no matter the special set.
4th, i think stance switch is not timed. they seem to initialize it manually every time in the stream and talk about how you can use kameos to set it up.
5th, while all your ideas are interesting and might be relevant at some point, that point is not now. as said, we dont know enough about her whole moveset, her frame data, and MK1 mechnanics in general, so every change suggestion is premature.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

1st of all, her moveset did look a bit low tier compared to smoke and geras, but the latter don't seem as insane anymore if you closely watch the demos again.
2nd, the presenters clearly were no ashrah experts, so we might have missed some crucial stuff. like if her side-switch jump is an overhead, what other mixup game she has, if you can jip from air ghost and probably more intricacies of the dark/light synergy.
3rd, its all in the frame data. if she is fast and safe, she might still be s-tier no matter the special set.
4th, i think stance switch is not timed. they seem to initialize it manually every time in the stream and talk about how you can use kameos to set it up.
5th, while all your ideas are interesting and might be relevant at some point, that point is not now. as said, we dont know enough about her whole moveset, her frame data, and MK1 mechnanics in general, so every change suggestion is premature.

The game comes out next month. Hence why I mentioned Release Shinnok. Same shit happened with him. Released in a garbage state with a lack of a gameplan and gaps in his concept. I fully expect her to end up in the same state because of it.

I already stated how I felt regarding the making her frame data good with her Light Ghost Dash. Her normals are not my concern AT ALL. They look great in fact.

As for her form change. It's pretty obvious its timed. You can even see it go away after a couple seconds and then Stephanie reapplies it.

Even if her mixup game was good, that shouldnt justify her specials being lackluster. Even if the Light projectile was plus, it still has such a slow startup and almost no range that the only reason you would use it would be if her other normals were just THAT much worse. That doenst give me hope at all.

 

[Jynks]

The game comes out next month. Hence why I mentioned Release Shinnok. Same shit happened with him. Released in a garbage state with a lack of a gameplan and gaps in his concept. I fully expect her to end up in the same state because of it. <snip>.. A bunch of other stuff

Where are you getting all this. You know nothing about her fame data, shinok has zero to do with anything about her...

What possible reason do you have to think there will be a bad release or all the other problems you're just making up?

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Where are you getting all this. You know nothing about her fame data, shinok has zero to do with anything about her...

What possible reason do you have to think there will be a bad release or all the other problems you're just making up?

Edit: Please actually read what I wrote above before replying as you seem to be missing context and your reply doesnt make sense. No shade.

I am not speaking a foreign language here. The issues I am afraid of are not something Frame data can really fix. Did you actually read what I typed before replying?

You have eyes like I do. I am literally talking about what I've seen and from what I've seen, it doesnt look promising for her. She LOOKS like a release shinnok situation. No where did I say Ashrah and Shinnok were related in any other way besides that. I was making an example with how Shinnok on release felt unfinished and was quickly given new tools as his kit had gaps in it.

I fear Ashrah will go down the same path based on what I've seen so far. I'm not even comparing her to the other characters.

 

[NeonGroovyGator]

The game comes out next month. Hence why I mentioned Release Shinnok. Same shit happened with him. Released in a garbage state with a lack of a gameplan and gaps in his concept. I fully expect her to end up in the same state because of it.

I already stated how I felt regarding the making her frame data good with her Light Ghost Dash. Her normals are not my concern AT ALL. They look great in fact.

As for her form change. It's pretty obvious its timed. You can even see it go away after a couple seconds and then Stephanie reapplies it.

Even if her mixup game was good, that shouldnt justify her specials being lackluster. Even if the Light projectile was plus, it still has such a slow startup and almost no range that the only reason you would use it would be if her other normals were just THAT much worse. That doenst give me hope at all.

I just don't get it.
If you think she's boring, or she just isn't for you, that's fine. She's not the flashiest, especially considering the characters she shared the kombat kast with. But she attacks with a sword almost all the time. Her normals are going to have pretty long range. She looks like a mid range character and her toolkit fits that playstyle. I don't think she should have everything. She looks like she has strengths and weaknesses and that's fine.
If her normals turn out to be lackluster I'll agree with you. But so far we have no idea.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

Edit: Correcting mistakes

I just don't get it.
If you think she's boring, or she just isn't for you, that's fine. She's not the flashiest, especially considering the characters she shared the kombat kast with. But she attacks with a sword almost all the time. Her normals are going to have pretty long range. She looks like a mid range character and her toolkit fits that playstyle. I don't think she should have everything. She looks like she has strengths and weaknesses and that's fine.
If her normals turn out to be lackluster I'll agree with you. But so far we have no idea.

Please actually read what I write instead of skimming. I type the way I do because I look for people to skim and talk without grasping what I wrote so I can call them out on it.
I NEVER said she was boring.

What's not to get? I am not asking that she get everything and even stated in my OG post that it would require setup anyways and wouldnt be free. In other words, she would have weaknesses.

The goal for a character shouldnt be to have shitty tools. Obviously we dont know her frame data and I am basing my opinion strictly on the gameplay we've seen so far. She looks like she's missing stuff. I'm not the only one who thinks this. I have asked several people and some dont even understand the value between her Light and Dark Ghost Dash because there really isnt one from what we've seen. Light has a follow up on both versions. Dark only has a follow up on one and the other is just a teleport to location. Why would she need to have a teleport on both forms? What sense does that make?

Light Form Slow Follow Up - Teleport to location and do an attack
Light Form Fast Follow Up - Cross-up slash
Dark Form Slow Follow Up - Teleport to location
Dark Form Fast Follow Up - Cross-up slash

Why would I ever use the Light fast Slow follow up unless the frame data is just THAT good? Why would I ever stay in Light form outside of cashing out Dark stacks? Dark projectile LOOKS infinitely more useful than Light projectile.
Why would I EVER use Light projectile to anti-air or zone? You literally saw her normals. They have just as much range as her light dash. Stephanie also mentioned that her Light projectile only gets a damage buff when EX'd which makes it even worse. Why would I try and read my opponent's jump when I could just use her amazing uppercut? It's literally Sindel's uppercut with less vertical height. Its faster as well. The only way I see the Light projectile being useful is if it has some crazy frame data on block.

Her kit just doesnt make sense when you look at her normals. If her normals are good which they are looking to be for the most part, that doesnt mean her specials should just do things just because. I also mentioned how her Kriss-kross is not the issue.

My issue ONLY has to do with Ghost Dash/Light Projectile/Form Change. The first 2 LOOK like they lack purpose and the form change being timed is weird when we look at Dualist LK.

I am not shitting on her. I am simply stating my fears based on what I've seen. If yall arent able to extrapolate an opinion based on the pretty extensive gameplay we've seen so far then I cant help that. Obviously things may change but being so close to the due date makes that reality less likely to happen hence my concerns. This is not the first place I have posted this and I am not the first person to talk about some of these concerns.

Her attacking with her sword is fine. Nowhere did I mention this, let alone down play her sword attacks. Even people like Mustard pointed out how slow her projectile start up was. I hope the frame data will be good because I dont see any reason to use it if it isnt.

 

[kabelfritz]

Please actually read what I write instead of skimming. I type the way I do because I look for people to skim and talk without grasping what I wrote so I can call them out on it.
I NEVER said she was boring.

What's not to get? I am not asking that she get everything and even stated in my OG post that it would require setup anyways and wouldnt be free. In other words, she would have weaknesses.

The goal for a character shouldnt be to have shitty tools. Obviously we dont know her frame data and I am basing my opinion strictly on the gameplay we've seen so far. She looks like she's missing stuff. I'm not the only one who thinks this. I have asked several people and many dont even understand the value between her Light and Dark Ghost Dash because there really isnt one from what we've seen. Light has a follow up on both versions. Dark only has a follow up on one. Why would she need to have a teleport on both forms? What sense does that make?

Light Form Slow Follow Up - Teleport to location and do an attack
Light Form Fast Follow Up - Cross-up slash
Dark Form Slow Follow Up - Teleport to location
Dark Form Fast Follow Up - Cross-up slash

Why would I ever use the Light fast follow up unless the frame data is just THAT good? Why would I ever stay in Light form outside of cashing out Dark stacks? Dark projectile LOOKS infinitely more useful than Light projectile.
Why would I EVER use Light projectile to anti-air or zone? You literally saw her normals. They have just as much range as her light dash. Stephanie also mentioned that her Light projectile only gets a damage buff when EX'd which makes it even worse. Why would I try and read my opponent's jump when I could just use her amazing uppercut? It's literally Sindel's uppercut with less vertical height. Its faster as well. The only way I see the Light projectile being useful is if it has some crazy frame data on block.

Her kit just doesnt make sense when you look at her normals. If her normals are good which they are looking to be for the most part, that doesnt mean her specials should just do things just because. I also mentioned how her Kriss-kross is not the issue.

My issue ONLY has to do with Ghost Dash/Light Projectile/Form Change. The first 2 LOOK like they lack purpose and the form change being timed is weird when we look at Dualist LK.

I am not shitting on her. I am simply stating my fears based on what I've seen. If yall arent able to extrapolate an opinion based on the pretty extensive gameplay we've seen so far then I cant help that. Obviously things may change but being so close to the due date makes that reality less likely to happen hence my concerns. This is not the first place I have posted this and I am not the first person to talk about some of these concerns.

Her attacking with her sword is fine. Nowhere did I mention this, let alone down play her sword attacks. Even people like Mustard pointed out how slow her projectile start up was. I hope the frame data will be good because I dont see any reason to use it if it isnt.

tbh i cant agree that the moveset doesnt make a sense. i can see her struggling with heavy zoners more than others but there will be a kameo for that.

ghost dash is a semi-option select against single projectiles. you are fullscreen. you can just throw out a dash because why not. if your opponent throws a projectile, you confirm into teleport and punish, even with a full combo in demon stance. if he doesnt throw a projectile, you dont confirm and you're safe. the dash also has at least 2 enders. this is a move that totally makes a sense for a character that wants to be in melee range. the thing might become problematic against multi-projectiles, where you might travel through the first to get hit by the second. so grounded ghost dash might be not easy to use and not the most powerful tool, but it absolutely fits into her melee style.

air dash hasnt been demonstrated properly at all. if it can be canceled into her especially dirty jip (no ones gonna anti-air that thing), this will move her up a tier instantly, if not more.

the light projectile seems like a keepaway neutral tool against harassing opponents who are better in melee than ashrah herself, probably liu kang and the likes. it leaves them standing on hit for a stetup. the dark one gives her a stronger zoning option.

so i dont see an unclear archetype at all. she is a sweep-range melee fighter with all the tools to set up her weapon game, which has mixups and launchers. she gets additional zoning/counterzoning capabilities in demon stance.

even if she doesnt look as spectacular as smoke/geras at first look, i can see her being top tier material when all skills are revealed and if the frame data is right.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

tbh i cant agree that the moveset doesnt make a sense. i can see her struggling with heavy zoners more than others but there will be a kameo for that.

ghost dash is a semi-option select against single projectiles. you are fullscreen. you can just throw out a dash because why not. if your opponent throws a projectile, you confirm into teleport and punish, even with a full combo in demon stance. if he doesnt throw a projectile, you dont confirm and you're safe. the dash also has at least 2 enders. this is a move that totally makes a sense for a character that wants to be in melee range. the thing might become problematic against multi-projectiles, where you might travel through the first to get hit by the second. so grounded ghost dash might be not easy to use and not the most powerful tool, but it absolutely fits into her melee style.

air dash hasnt been demonstrated properly at all. if it can be canceled into her especially dirty jip (no ones gonna anti-air that thing), this will move her up a tier instantly, if not more.

the light projectile seems like a keepaway neutral tool against harassing opponents who are better in melee than ashrah herself, probably liu kang and the likes. it leaves them standing on hit for a stetup. the dark one gives her a stronger zoning option.

so i dont see an unclear archetype at all. she is a sweep-range melee fighter with all the tools to set up her weapon game, which has mixups and launchers. she gets additional zoning/counterzoning capabilities in demon stance.

even if she doesnt look as spectacular as smoke/geras at first look, i can see her being top tier material when all skills are revealed and if the frame data is right.

All versions of the dash teleport you. The only difference we've seen is that the light has a follow up on the slow version and the dark doesnt have a follow up and just teleports you for its slow version. Everything you've stated here can be done with Dark Ghost dash. Why would I risk using Light Dash's slow follow up when I could just use Dark Dash's slow follow up instead? They both have the same fast follow up so the only thing you miss out is the attack at the end which is where my concerns for the move start. That follow up attack makes no sense to have. It's not only slower but can be whiffed like we saw in the gameplay. Why would I EVER risk using any version of the Light dash when I could just go dark and have a better chance at being safe? We've seen the hit reaction when the light dash fast follow up hits. You most likely arent comboing from that without a kameo.

The light projectile would make sense if her normals that we've seen already werent basically the same length as the projectile. She even has a sword poke that covers around the same distance as the projectile itself without the startup. There doesnt look like there's a reason to use the projectile EVER when your normals cover just as much space and probably grant better combo potential with better startup frame data.

She has redundant specials.

It would be like if Subzero had a slower ice ball that had a follow up attack and one that didnt. Why would you ever use the follow up version unless the frame data was just better?

Her being mid range is fine but she has redundant tools in her kit. Same way characters in have redundant strings in MKX.

LITERALLY, please go rewatch the break down and look at the range of her normals then look at her projectile. There is almost no world where you would risk going for it when you have an uppercut like Ashrah's.

 

[kabelfritz]

All versions of the dash teleport you. The only difference we've seen is that the light has a follow up on the slow version and the dark doesnt have a follow up and just teleports you for its slow version. Everything you've stated here can be done with Dark Ghost dash. Why would I risk using Light Dash's slow follow up when I could just use Dark Dash's slow follow up instead? They both have the same fast follow up so the only thing you miss out is the attack at the end which is where my concerns for the move start. That follow up attack makes no sense to have. It's not only slower but can be whiffed like we saw in the gameplay. Why would I EVER risk using any version of the Light dash when I could just go dark and have a better chance at being safe? We've seen the hit reaction when the light dash fast follow up hits. You most likely arent comboing from that without a kameo.

The light projectile would make sense if her normals that we've seen already werent basically the same length as the projectile. She even has a sword poke that covers around the same distance as the projectile itself without the startup. There doesnt look like there's a reason to use the projectile EVER when your normals cover just as much space and probably grant better combo potential with better startup frame data.

She has redundant specials.

It would be like if Subzero had a slower ice ball that had a follow up attack and one that didnt. Why would you ever use the follow up version unless the frame data was just better?

Her being mid range is fine but she has redundant tools in her kit. Same way characters in have redundant strings in MKX.

LITERALLY, please go rewatch the break down and look at the range of her normals then look at her projectile. There is almost no world where you would risk going for it when you have an uppercut like Ashrah's.

1. if all versions of ghost dash teleport me, what am i looking at at 3:24?
2. why would you use the light dash? umm because you are in light stance?
3. why would you use the slow version of light or dark? because you punish something correctly. its not a fricken pressure tool, if thats what youre thinking.
4. why would you use the fast version? because it switches sides.
5. the projectile covers jumping, standing and ducking opponents at once. your normals dont. plus it probably cant be punished from mid-range. its likely a pretty risk-free neutral tool.

and i have watched the breakdown 5 times now, no worries.

 

[SixPathsOfHate]

1. if all versions of ghost dash teleport me, what am i looking at at 3:24?
2. why would you use the light dash? umm because you are in light stance?
3. why would you use the slow version of light or dark? because you punish something correctly. its not a fricken pressure tool, if thats what youre thinking.
4. why would you use the fast version? because it switches sides.
5. the projectile covers jumping, standing and ducking opponents at once. your normals dont. plus it probably cant be punished from mid-range. its likely a pretty risk-free neutral tool.

and i have watched the breakdown 5 times now, no worries.

1. You are looking at it being cancelled. Both versions do this..... So once again I ask. Why would I use the light form dash? Better yet, why would you use the light form dash over the dark form dash based on what you've seen?
2. .... Why would I risk whiffing the follow up in light form when I can be in dark form and just not have to risk it? Watch it whiff at 3:21. You just got punished cause you whiffed it.
3. No, I am not thinking its a pressure tool. The dark dash does the same thing with the fast follow up. Even better, I can just use the slow follow up of the dark dash and get a punish since you can react almost immediately after you teleport. At that point, look back at point 2.
4. Both versions of the fast follow up switch sides. Once again, Dark has a better list going for it....
5. The normal at 3:16. Even in the case of that being a high, she still has another string with a similar range that is slightly slower due to having another normal before it. If that normal is a mid, the projectile lost what little use it had. The projectile startup is very reactable and we've seen that kameos can eat hits. That move will literally be suicide on use. You saw her uppercut right? Why would I ever risk using that projectile?

1. You arent using the light projectile to zone because it goes nowhere and its far too slow.
2. You arent using it on reaction for anti-airs because its too slow and any of her launches look to do a better job.
3. You arent using it as a poke/spacing because its too slow and you have the normal at 3:16

Why would I use the light form for anything other than cashing out????

Even foxy said the dark form just looks better. The light form offers nothing that you dont already get access too with your normals besides letting you cash out on dark stacks. If you've looked at the breakdown 5 times, I need you to look another 30 cause you clearly we are seeing different things. How do you fail to see the redundancies here? This is why I mentioned changing the light dash to be something else because its spot is already taken. It spawning a ghost at said location instead of teleporting you and allowing your specials to interact with it would give you a reason to be in light mode and a reason to swap besides cashing out dark stacks for damage.

Allowing the light dash to spawn a ghost also means you can actually allows you to bait them better since they wouldnt want you to setup for reasons stated in my OG post. This would also give the projectile an actual use besides being a glorified reaction checker since it passing through the ghost would extend the range. This obviously comes with weaknesses since you have to setup the clone in light form and then have enough of an advantage to swap forms.