I hope NRS' next game actually builds on MK11's mechanic foundation

[xWildx]

I don't mind regenerating meter at all. Imagine the meter advantage that someone like Cetrion or Kabal would have under the old system while you block and wait for your opening.

Irrelevant. The game wasn’t designed with a different system in mind so you can’t say so-and-so would be ridiculous in a system not for them.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Irrelevant. The game wasn’t designed with a different system in mind so you can’t say so-and-so would be ridiculous in a system not for them.

We've had 4 games before this one that were, so we know exactly how the standard meter build works in NRS games and what kind of characters it benefits.

 

[Revy]

So they can make another bad game?

 

[Quantrell Jones]

Just me personally I don't like the idea of the flawless block system essentially negating certain gameplay styles. It's hard to actually make someone respect a plus situation when all they have to do is flawless block your hard earned restand , that you payed 1 to 2 bars for and now you gotta lose your turn bc they got punished for not doing something unsafe. If it returns you definitely should not be able to do it out of negative frames.

I strongly dislike the breakaway system. I would prefer it reset back to neutral and both have to deal with the others neutral. It just feels silly to have to worry about doing your sting or social move in a combo that you earned bc the opponent can decide to drop and punish you for punishing them. If it does return then there needs to be actual usable armor breaks for them so that the attacker has counter play. Not the situational breakers some characters have. Not the useless ones others have but armor reads that contribute to that characters gameplay.

Variation system needs to go. It really just creates characters that are not fully formed. It Also created a have and have not situation in MK11. Where the top tier characters sometimes had access to moves that greatly buffed their gmeplay for 1 slot and then you had others that had moves they needed and would have helped them greatly in conjunction with 2 other moves be kept back by having not having the slots needed to be whole. Either make fully characters with fully realized gamelans or fix the slotting system.

Lastly throws being true mids is dumb. Especially in this game bc there are mids in this game that are not true miss but throws are true mids. Them grabbing your d3, or d4 when d3 or d4 imo should always low profile them on a read. It also looks stupid when a throw counter hit grabs a d4 from range.

imo MK11 was just kinda meh. It was fun to play with friends. Boring or frustrating to play with anyone else.

My last hopeful wish is that NRS pls get someone who actually knows how to program hurt boxes into your team. Breathing hurt boxes are dumb. Characters with small hitboxes are not new to fighting games but the sheer amount of privilege they get is stupid. low profiling mids, combos not working due to it, strings not jailing act. Characters having hitboes behind them during certain animations.

 

[xWildx]

We've had 4 games before this one that were, so we know exactly how the standard meter build works in NRS games and what kind of characters it benefits.

True. But to your point, I often see just as many rushdown characters in the top as I see zoners building meter (Bane, Catwoman, Sonya, Cage, etc.) I also offered constructive ideas as opposed to just saying, “so and so would be broke in a game where these concepts don’t exist.”

Please try to be more constructive with your future posts.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Oh yea, forgot to mention regenerating meter. But again, I would rather see it tweaked than go back to meter build. Meter building sucked especially in Injustice 2, it was pretty common to hear "My character sucks without meter" or "all my character's good moves require meter", and the top tier characters were always better depending on if they had good damage/utilty meterlessly. Walking down zoners was a lot more annoying in INJ2 than in MK11 too, if they made it so that Flawless Blocking projectiles slightly increased defensive meter regen I'd like it even more. I see your point about wanting more of a meter management aspect for rushdown characters tho, that's the only gripe I really have with it

No one should ever gain meter by firing projectiles, a meter should only be gained with moves that touches the opponent and nothing else.

MK 11 regen meter did a lot of thing wrong, it regens on round end taunts, every move that its not breakaway has the dame exact regen speed, doesn't matter if a move is good or bad, and i think they failed to regulate that.

At least they should have tweaked a bit more.
For example, no regen if:
Character being hit is in juggle state.
Round end taunts.

Different fill rates depending on how good of a move is.

 

[Son ov Timett]

Next game should be even more streamlined imo. I dont think it's right that NRS alienates certain audiences that may not have the muscle memory to do 5 hit combos. Set up some Towers that reward players with instant combo tokens. Why should people play for skins? Unlock all the skins outright, and make cut scene kombos available to those who have enough temerity to run through kombat towers with AI set to ON. Maybe said kut scene kombos can be amplified by a QTE mini game? Also kombos shouldnt scale, so if you're very good at opening up an opponent, and great at the QTE mini game you can one touch of death your opponent.

Said combos can be reversed though, if the defender implements the proper kombat kode ala No Blood from MK9. This changes per match ofcourse.



This setup would make MK12 all inclusive, and nothing like it's predecessors. Just make sure Scorpion is on the cover for the umpteenth time, he needs more exposure.

 

[Juxtapose]

I think it was well handled in regards to new characters (Cassie, Jacqui, Dvorah, etc.) because it felt like the different variations had a purpose. And you could choose a specific "version" of those characters.
But to the legacy characters it was a mixed bag.

I only played legacy characters and didn't find that at all, personally. To each their own.

 

[Wigy]

Normals hitboxes- terrible
Breakaway- terrible.. along with their attempted fix of armour breaks
Regen meter - i guess this could work going forward with fine tuning but i would prefer earned meter with zoners meterbuild toned down.
Fatal blows - directly in the bin, i see absolutely 0 justification for these past a crutch for casuals.
Wavedash stuff is all well and good but i feel like the developers havent got a scope for who has a good one in their balance philosophy. I think movement has never been better than mk9.
Flawless block i think should be exclusively for gaps or air nornals, shouldnt get punished for taking my turn
Hitboxes- absolute garbage.
Combos- dull
Overall depth of tech- pretty shallow all round. Most characters fleshed out immediately
Universal wakeups... alright i guess. Creates less balance issues.
Jumping is weird in this game, the arc of jumps the floatyness and ridiculous jump normals creates some really stupid interactions. Like my d2 whiffing when they neutral jump right in my face. Why on earth did they ADD an OS to jks ill never know. Kabal can spam j3 bf3 to his hearts content and be safe or get a combo.
Balance- definitely better than other games at the cost of excitement and depth.

I'd be happier taking a lot more from mkx or mk9 than mk11.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

I think KBs are a legitimately interesting and fun design choice and I hope they expand on and improve the idea.

From a competitive stand point they give you more resources per match and when done well can add some extra wrinkles to a match up or help tilt the RPS of a situation by providing one option that will blow you the hell up vs another that will do a lot less damage (do you just take the weaker option, or try and activate big brain mode and risk it on the read).

From a casual/marketing stand point they look sick (this is important) and (when done well) they actually help nudge players towards important tools and concepts.

I have tons of problems with the way KBs were handled in MK11 (some are done well, some are basically guaranteed to be seen in a match and are just bonus damage for already good characters, some are useless or push you towards actively bad play) but they are a rich vein to explore and expand on.

 

[Son ov Timett]

Krushing blows lacked depth. If they didnt have to follow a stringent pre-condition and could be implemented to extend combos via tight execution they couldve been wondrous. Nay, Skarlet's "hit a slow af b2 (-15) twice in a row and get a measly 17%" Or better yet D'Vorah's dumb af throw KB that annihilated a health bar. Are these dudes dropping acid while theyre coming up with this design? None of these kb conditions are something that one must practice. Just read the condition, voila, done. About as much depth as a thin crust pizza. Dont matter, Boon has our money, and he'll have everyone line up to buy Ultimo Mahvel or whatever garbo he shill's next. Just follow the eye brow baaabaaaaay, Hale Bop awaits!

 

[theotherguy]

Nay, Skarlet's "hit a slow af b2 (-15) twice in a row and get a measly 17%"

Does it not add a mind game because of it? If you know they could get a KB after already doing one OH, then you need keep an eye out for it. At the same time you need to be wary they don't bluff you and go for something else, possibly with even more damage.

Sure there's definitely KB's that are questionable with their setups or ease of use, but i don't think they should all be put in the dumb AF basket.

 

[Son ov Timett]

Does it not add a mind game because of it? If you know they could get a KB after already doing one OH, then you need keep an eye out for it. At the same time you need to be wary they don't bluff you and go for something else, possibly with even more damage.

Sure there's definitely KB's that are questionable with their setups or ease of use, but i don't think they should all be put in the dumb AF basket.

What does she have at max B2 range that could create a mind game? Yes if you get hit by a b2, you should not jump afterwards due to the very vertical hitbox on B2, but aside from that she doesnt have much in way of a mind game. Get hit by the initial B2? Just back away and reset the situation, Most like you'll have the skarlet player forcing to get that second B2 which limits their options in kind. It's not as if she has a mix from Max B2 range. B3? Damage is so puny and leads to nothing, even if you follow suit with teleport shenanigans.

What would have been a cool idea since her kombos are so neutured is having the 2nd b2 be able to create a pop up mid combo after landing one b2 in round. Why even bother with neutured crushing blows when you can just combo fish for days? Granted I do use B2 in game, but that doesnt mean IT'S FUN. Just a boring ass tactic that takes no practice. Plus any real skilled foe is going to be on the look out and punish that shiet 9times out of 10.

I want some fun af mind games, not just quasi mind games that are illusory at best.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

That's an example of a KB that might not be well implemented. There are plenty of other examples that add depth and excitement in match.
One I love is the universal d2 to punish highs. It teaches new players how to recognize highs and why they can be dangerous to mindlessly throw out. They also offer a huge blow up moment for players who correctly read a throw (which also teaches players that you don't always want to hold on to the block button forever). And it flatters a legacy design choice of MK, making uppercuts a high damage spectacle.
They were not perfect in MK11, but lots of positives to build on.

 

[craftycheese]

If I had one mechanic from this game to choose to bring to the next one, Krushing Blows would be it. They'll definately need refine some of the requirements but they have a good foundation to build off of. Second would be the Flawless Block because I like the idea of parrying your opponents move with a move of your choice

I don't think the regen meter was bad and wouldn't be upset if it did return. I do think it's a neat alternative to how meter is gained in other games but it really didn't affect me one way or the other. I think I would like them to maybe think about having different meters for different characters, kinda like KI maybe.

I also like the idea of universal wake-ups. Thought it was neat although maybe not implemented well in this game. Would I be upset if it was in the next game, no. I do, however, think it's kinda not necassary. Wakeup specials seem to be a tried and true formula that didn't need to be changed, but I don't hate that NRS tried something different.

I would like to see them get rid of breakaway, and breakers in general. I'm more of a fan of you eating damage if you made a mistake and it's not like the combo damage is that much more crazy than a game like SFV that doesn't have combo breakers. I think if I had to have a breaker, maybe just a breaker if you're stuck blocking. (Which gets me thinking if MKX didn't have/got rid of normal breakers but kept the Block Breakers, how that would've impacted the game. Probably not much, but watching that revival tournament there's a whole lot of blocking then guessing while block and like, what if you broke while blocking so you didn't have to guess what was gonna happen next? I don't remember now why we didn't back then, but like it was there.)

 

[TheJaquio]

I liked the idea of krushing blows and I could see them continue with it in another game, just with better balancing across the characters and requirements that are at least somewhat probable to meet within a match. However, I'd prefer it if everything else was left behind, but especially the variation system. It was a cool idea when MKX first launched, but we're two games deep in this experiment and it has proven to be cumbersome, impossible for them to balance, and it leads to characters with less depth to their movesets which leads to less dynamic combos, options, and matches. I would also like to see these half-assed "live towers" leave for good, since all they do is disincentivize playing against real people in favor of grinding gear in joyless matches against normal-level AI with whack-ass modifiers.

Keep krushing blows and cancelable dashes, get rid of everything else.

 

[Grashade]

KBs, if they stay, should be specifically on counter hit and set up combos. The player on the receiving end shouldn't be able to use breakaway on KBs. I'm envisioning them like SF Vs crush counters. I want more actual footsies in my MK.

FBs are fine in the concept of keeping a comeback mechanic. I get that almost every single contemporary fighting game has a super or ultra move of some kind, and these are MK's equivalent. I, however, want it back to being tied to the meter. I get that it wasn't much of a choice in MK9 and X when it came to meter usage. You saved it for the breaker, so supers, FBs, x-ray, whatever it's called, have to be stronger in some way. Maybe have less scaling, making them more used as combo enders? Something like that. It shouldn't just be "oh, I need to save these two bars for breakaway" by default. There should be some risk/reward in going for the kill with your super vs. saving that meter for defense. I don't want to rip off SF too much, but one thing I've always admired is how useful each option they provide you feels.

Meter should go back to a more traditional format. Classic 3 bar meter works for me. Having three major things tied to your meter, really makes your decision making important, choosing between your super, your ex moves and breakaway.

Breakaway should be nerfed of course, forcing a delayed wake-up and letting the aggressor maintain some sort of oki game or try for some mix. Have more launchers in strings or normals, maybe bring back the nj. p launchers? I want more combo routes than we had in 11.

 

[Evil Canadian]

itd be kewl if in mk12 they put shao kahn in the game, I like that charaaceter

 

[Nessup12345]

• Regarding the crushing blows, besides eliminating ridiculous discrepancies in requirements across characters, I would like them not to do additional damage on their own but instead serve as special meterless launchers for full combos without the possibility to break away ( they would drain the meter on hit).
• It is unrealistic to expect them to get rid of fatal blow-like mechanics, but it should be death on block and require two bars of offensive meter or an equivalent of that to use.
• Meter could be part regenerating part build. Like first bar would come back as now ( maybe a bit slower but you can speed it up with meter building) but the second would regenerate very slowly on its own unless you actually put effort into building it.
• Flawless blocking is fine but it should be not possible out of disadvantage on hit.
• Wake up options can stay if the meter building/regeneration situation is balanced better so that mindless use of metered wake up options would not be possible.
• Variations are de facto gone already with the custom moves since ultimate. So it makes no sense to bring them back just focus more on better menu of choices for equipped moves for each character.
• breakaways should reset neutral not lead to full combo punishes.

 

[xRantex]

Lol. I think nothing should stay. Nearly everything listed here is a comeback mechanic for bad players.

Thank youu I should not be losing 30% of my health off of 2 hits and JUST because my opponent counter me or hey "connect 5 hits then BOOM you'll do 40% instead of 25%!!! Omg yay! Then my character Raiden has no go to krushing blows at all to balance things out like really? Like tf who do they think is playing these games because this is an insult to good players. If the next game is anything like this I won't buy it idc who's in it besides sareena. Cause I been waiting to use her but other than that I rather change my focus to another fighting game. And now we have to wait yrs for another mk game but look at Tekken and street fighter.

 

[xRantex]

Then people beat you and get to talking ish like really bro? Lmao like you didn't just do krushing blow after krushing blow and my character have none that's easy like yours. 1 example is Raiden's superman has to be done full screen and meter burn good luck with that. Also B2 twice in a row when it has no range!!!!! On the B2 Ive only landed that kb a handful of times out of the thousands of games I've had.