How would you change MK9 in a potential remaster?

[Juxtapose]

I'm sure a game like MK9 re-mastered would sell ok, as would MVC2, especially with proper netcode. Other than the people who grew up with them though I'm not sure you're going to get many new players beyond a few tourists who just want to check the old games out.

^This sounds about right to me.

So for me, for a remaster, I'd want to see the following:

• Updated graphics
• Rollback netcode
• Slight gameplay tweaks, i.e. removing Player 1 advantage
• Modernized Training Room Options
• Add AI Single Fight and random skins for AI opponents in Arcade Ladder

I wouldn't have an issue with re-balancing, but I don't think it would be needed for who the remaster's core audience would be.

 

[trufenix]

I'm still waiting for Capcom to release a Darkstalkers + Vs collection btw

They already did, its called Darkstalkers Resurrection. First on PSP, and then again quietly on xbl and psn, except missing a bunch of stuff and oh yeah this was right in the middle of them basically spending every dollar they had promoting UMvC3, SFxT, and SF4 "because of the tsunami".

Best we got was the infamous "Darkstalkers are not DEAD" shoutout in an SFxT trailer. I guess and a couple costumes in SF5. Anyway, the darkstalkers are dead and capcom blames us for not rebuying their port enough. The exact thing people insist would not happen to mk9 cause millions of gamers would suddenly have a nostalgia stroke and think old games they never played are good enough to buy at full price cause reasons.

 

[Juxtapose]

... old games they never played are good enough to buy at full price cause reasons.

That's an interesting point as well: if the game is remastered and re-released, what would its price point be? I would not be keen on paying $79.99 (Canadian) plus tax for it, which is standard new game price these days.

Like the upcoming Diablo II remaster. I'd love to buy it and play the snot out of it, but at the insane price it's going to be selling for, it's a hard "no" from me.

I'd realistically wait for a sale when I could buy the game for $19.99 or something.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Kenshi online doesn't even take Pig's skill to be oppressive tbh. Couldn't imagine how it would've been to play a decent Kenshi on delay netcode but even on GGPO Kenshi and Kabal just become that much more oppressive.

The Kabal thing is just gonna be a problem for most because you don't even need to be that good with Kabal to body most people. From what I've read and seen so long as you're decent at instant air gas blast you'll body most people online cause they don't know how to deal.

It wouldn't be as bad as some would imply, absolutely. But it'll definitely be more prevalent, especially as the weeks go on and the honeymoon period wears off for the majority of folks who would likely just go back to modern titles. I feel like people on the whole have gotten better at a base level due to easier access to learning resources and more interest in becoming competent.

Last thing I'll say about this tho cause idk why googling is so hard. All of them got GGPO, not just Origins. The comment I was replying to specifically said MvC2 so just cause I didn't put the number 2 in one part of one of my comments doesn't mean I'm suddenly wrong lol

GGPO - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ok if you haven’t played the game then you can’t really discuss the matter

If there was one NRS game people labbed, it was MK9. I promise you anyone who understood the game could beat any “decent” Kabal player. Just because you know how to do iagbs doesn’t make you good. We all knew how to deal with gas blasts. We all knew how to deal with his pressure. Kabal wasn’t a character anyone could just pick and win with. So again, you won’t be seeing much Kabal’s on REOs level.

 

[trufenix]

That's an interesting point as well: if the game is remastered and re-released, what would its price point be? I would not be keen on paying $79.99 (Canadian) plus tax for it, which is standard new game price these days.

Like the upcoming Diablo II remaster. I'd love to buy it and play the snot out of it, but at the insane price it's going to be selling for, it's a hard "no" from me.

I'd realistically wait for a sale when I could buy the game for $19.99 or something.

The market research is there, Capcom has tried it. Repeatedly. It was their business model for a while until NRS taught them how to do DLC. Fighting games are NOT big sellers, never were. That's why most publishers don't waste the money anymore.

The imaginary $20 dollar digital only re-release of MK9 would have no new aesthetics, models or animations in game, just a pretty new UI, and menus, and some redone cinematics. Maybe some new voice samples, but I doubt it. Possibly a new soundtrack that everyone hates. The balance patch, rollback, and training mode everyone begged for are online only (like the mkx/11 betas), missing costumes, moves, and possibly entire characters, and it plays COMPLETELY different from the "classic" mk9. Also, it looks like Injustice Mobile.

Ew.

 

[trufenix]

Never forget:

This is what Capcom showed us at Comic-con, right before they announced for 20 bucks we could all save the darkstalkers if we rebought the same game we'd already bought on PSP years before and PS2 a couple years before that and Dreamcast a few years before that.

 

[Juxtapose]

The market research is there, Capcom has tried it. Repeatedly. It was their business model for a while until NRS taught them how to do DLC. Fighting games are NOT big sellers, never were. That's why most publishers don't waste the money anymore.

The imaginary $20 dollar digital only re-release of MK9 would have no new aesthetics, models or animations in game, just a pretty new UI, and menus, and some redone cinematics. Maybe some new voice samples, but I doubt it. Possibly a new soundtrack that everyone hates. The balance patch, rollback, and training mode everyone begged for are online only (like the mkx/11 betas), missing costumes, moves, and possibly entire characters, and it plays COMPLETELY different from the "classic" mk9. Also, it looks like Injustice Mobile.

Ew.

Oh yeah, both fighting games and real time strategy, two of my favourite genres, are not big sellers in modern times, sadly.

If they released a Mortal Kombat remaster like you mention above, I'd simply pass on it and continue to enjoy the original when the mood takes me.

If they release it as a proper, well done remaster at a solid price point, different story. If they release it overpriced, I wait a year or so for a sale.

 

[Marlow]

For a good remaster, I'll pay $20-$40, depending on the game and the quality of the remaster, or if it's a bundle of some kind. Can't see myself ever spending much more than that though.

 

[IlluvialCE]

Ok if you haven’t played the game then you can’t really discuss the matter

If there was one NRS game people labbed, it was MK9. I promise you anyone who understood the game could beat any “decent” Kabal player. Just because you know how to do iagbs doesn’t make you good. We all knew how to deal with gas blasts. We all knew how to deal with his pressure. Kabal wasn’t a character anyone could just pick and win with. So again, you won’t be seeing much Kabal’s on REOs level.

I'm not saying people haven't labbed the MUs lol I'm saying that a vast majority of players didn't even have the basic movement to deal with instant air gas blast.

Yea if your standard for every person who hops online is someone from MK9's glory days that was labbing and grinding the game hardcore than you're right, but I'm speaking far more broadly.

You can go into streams and see people complaining about Cetrionb zoning in MK11. You think the average person is gonna put up with even remotely competent players piloting top tiers? Let alone those who are actually good...

I probably didn't make my broad statement clear enough so that's my bad, but we just aren't talking about the same demographics here.

I don't define "decent" as Reo's level of Kabal either.

Edit: Most of the info I've gathered is from oldheads talking about the game back in the day, retrospective deep dives into the games history and dozens of forum posts and online videos talking about this kind of stuff.

You're 100% right that I wasn't there and that it definitely skews my perception, but I don't think its that controversial to say "The average person who boots up an MK game that complains about anything and everything that beats them or that they consider lame isn't gonna be able to handle the most baseline competent players piloting top tiers."

That's the crux of what I'm saying. We're in an age where games like IJ2 and MK11 get slammed for terrible balance. MK9 in its current form will melt their minds.

 

[DanCock]

if in fantasy land this happens, id love if they remove all of the armor moves that entered the game after like the second patch. or at least give Sindel a armor attack..

 

[IlluvialCE]

if in fantasy land this happens, id love if they remove all of the armor moves that entered the game after like the second patch. or at least give Sindel a armor attack..

You don't want armor removed. Removing some of Kenshi's armor could bea fairly reasonable method of balancing him out. But you really don't wanna remove armor in this game, it would make pressure and zoning so much more oppressive for the defender to deal with.

 

[IlluvialCE]

The imaginary $20 dollar digital only re-release of MK9 would have no new aesthetics, models or animations in game, just a pretty new UI, and menus, and some redone cinematics. Maybe some new voice samples, but I doubt it. Possibly a new soundtrack that everyone hates. The balance patch, rollback, and training mode everyone begged for are online only (like the mkx/11 betas), missing costumes, moves, and possibly entire characters, and it plays COMPLETELY different from the "classic" mk9. Also, it looks like Injustice Mobile.

I honestly can't tell what you're saying here so I don't know how to respond to this. The notion that it couldn't be $20-30 and be an updated edition with the Vita costumes, expanded training mode, rollback and some bugfixes is pretty far offbase imo

Also what are you talking about with the game playing completely differently and looking like a mobile game if the rerelease was $20? That's not how that works.

 

[John Grizzly]

wow, so many experts in here. Yes, MvC2 got re-released, with rollback (non-ggpo, but still rollback). It was way the fuck back in 2009 right before mvc3 launched, which coincidentally did not have rollback but nobody cared. MvC2 got pulled eventually because capcom couldn't hold the license, but it didn't matter, already nobody was playing because the idea tha tpeople iwll put down brand new games to play ten year old games again has never been profitable.

The same also happened to jojo, 3rd strike, mvc1, uh.. garou, a sam sho or two, I think maybe last blade, kof2002.

Is that a remaster, though? Game looked the same as it did in the arcade version.

 

[IlluvialCE]

Is that a remaster, though? Game looked the same as it did in the arcade version.

Yea, it ran at 1080p widescreen, offered visual filters and have a brand new online infrastructure that used rollback.

That counts as a remaster. Just look at the bevy of HD remasters companies were making in the PS3/360 days like Devil May Cry, Hitman, Sly Cooper etc etc

 

[trufenix]

I honestly can't tell what you're saying here so I don't know how to respond to this. The notion that it couldn't be $20-30 and be an updated edition with the Vita costumes, expanded training mode, rollback and some bugfixes is pretty far offbase imo

Also what are you talking about with the game playing completely differently and looking like a mobile game if the rerelease was $20? That's not how that works.

You just saying "it should exist at this price point" doesn't make it exist. Especially when there's literally no examples of it ever happening:

DIVE KICK which has two buttons and was a joke released 5 years ago still costs 10 dollars.
Skullgirls which has rollback, a tiny 2d cast, and was kickstarted to the tune of almost $500k, still costs 20.
KOF2002 UM which has rollback but ZERO gameplay / aesthetic improvements still 15.
GAROU same story, costs 10.
Gamestop is still selling the ORIGINAL mk9 for 20-30 bucks right now.
Mortal Komabt ARcade Collection was released at $40, and is still on the digital store for 10 right now. And that was 3 of the worst ports of anything ever.

Just go over to the VF thread, and see the nutjobs freaking out about $10 customization dlc and the lack of rollback, and that game is free right now.


... or stick your fingers in your ears and tell me more about "how it works".

 

[trufenix]

Is that a remaster, though? Game looked the same as it did in the arcade version.

"remaster" doesn't mean anything in game development. It barely applies to movies and music anymore. Or would you say No Man's Sky just got remastered?

 

[IlluvialCE]

You just saying "it should exist at this price point" doesn't make it exist. Especially when there's literally no examples of it ever happening:

DIVE KICK which has two buttons and was a joke released 5 years ago still costs 10 dollars.
Skullgirls which has rollback, a tiny 2d cast, and was kickstarted to the tune of almost $500k, still costs 20.
KOF2002 UM which has rollback but ZERO gameplay / aesthetic improvements still 15.
GAROU same story, costs 10.
Gamestop is still selling the ORIGINAL mk9 for 20-30 bucks right now.
Mortal Komabt ARcade Collection was released at $40, and is still on the digital store for 10 right now. And that was 3 of the worst ports of anything ever.

Just go over to the VF thread, and see the nutjobs freaking out about $10 customization dlc and the lack of rollback, and that game is free right now.


... or stick your fingers in your ears and tell me more about "how it works".

I never said it SHOULD I just said it could lmao.

Street Fighter V Champion Edition
USF4 PS4 release
SF3 Third Strike Online Edition
MvC Origins
MvC 2
Darkstalkers Resurrection Collection
VF5 Ultimate (Its $30 and included brand new netcode even if it isn't rollback, new online features and entirely remastered visuals so idk why you thought it proved your point)
The SNK fighters all cost $10-15 and most feature rollback netcode. Again why do you think these prove your point when it comes to MK9 not being able to cost $20-30?
Guilty Gear +R is $15
Skullgirls is $20 and features rollback and is still updated to this day, again idk how you think that's proof that an MK9 remaster couldn't cost $20-30 lmao

It could cost $40 or it could cost $20-30. I guess if me saying that a remaster of MK9 with rollback and some bug fixes can cost $30 is super controversial to you then idk what to tell you, especially when you wanna cite $10-30 rollback remasters as proof that I'm somehow wrong?

Like I genuinely need you to explain to me how your list of $10-30 rollback remasters and the dozens of others that exist in those price points somehow means that this particular game can't get a $20-30 rerelease?

Also everything I've read says that MK Arcade Kollection launched at $10 but I'm open to be proven wrong there

 

[DanCock]

You don't want armor removed. Removing some of Kenshi's armor could bea fairly reasonable method of balancing him out. But you really don't wanna remove armor in this game, it would make pressure and zoning so much more oppressive for the defender to deal with.

Sindel player and yes i want all that fucking armor removed. i know the game and it was better shit show for me before all the armor was added.

 

[IlluvialCE]

Sindel player and yes i want all that fucking armor removed. i know the game and it was better shit show for me before all the armor was added.

I feel like your solution should be more to give Sindel armor, not remove one of the only things keeping the insane rushdown of characters like Kabal, Cage and Sonya in check.

 

[Juxtapose]

And that was 3 of the worst ports of anything ever.

Outside of the delay-based netcode, what was so horrible about them?

 

[trufenix]

I never said it SHOULD I just said it could lmao.

Street Fighter V Champion Edition
USF4 PS4 release
SF3 Third Strike Online Edition
MvC Origins
MvC 2
Darkstalkers Resurrection Collection
VF5 Ultimate (Its $30 and included brand new netcode even if it isn't rollback, new online features and entirely remastered visuals so idk why you thought it proved your point)
The SNK fighters all cost $10-15 and most feature rollback netcode. Again why do you think these prove your point when it comes to MK9 not being able to cost $20-30?
Guilty Gear +R is $15
Skullgirls is $20 and features rollback and is still updated to this day, again idk how you think that's proof that an MK9 remaster couldn't cost $20-30 lmao

It could cost $40 or it could cost $20-30. I guess if me saying that a remaster of MK9 with rollback and some bug fixes can cost $30 is super controversial to you then idk what to tell you, especially when you wanna cite $10-30 rollback remasters as proof that I'm somehow wrong?

Like I genuinely need you to explain to me how your list of $10-30 rollback remasters and the dozens of others that exist in those price points somehow means that this particular game can't get a $20-30 rerelease?

Also everything I've read says that MK Arcade Kollection launched at $10 but I'm open to be proven wrong there

Literally none of those games you listed included both a graphical remaster and rollback netcode. Which was my point. Do you even remember what your original point was? I really appreciate you proving mine. lmao.

 

[trufenix]

Outside of the delay-based netcode, what was so horrible about them?

Dude, its laggy, even in single player.

 

[Juxtapose]

Dude, its laggy, even in single player.

It's been years since I touched it, though I don't recall noticing any lag myself (Xbox 360 version). Not saying it isn't there and that more astute players wouldn't notice it, of course.

 

[IlluvialCE]

Literally none of those games you listed included both a graphical remaster and rollback netcode. Which was my point. Do you even remember what your original point was? I really appreciate you proving mine. lmao.

Yea, my original point didn't even mention a graphical remaster. Maybe you just pretended I said that, but I promise you I didn't.

"The notion that it couldn't be $20-30 and be an updated edition with the Vita costumes, expanded training mode, rollback and some bugfixes is pretty far offbase imo."

That's what I said. Expanded training modes and rollback aren't uncommon in these remasters, its actually the norm. Adding in the Vita outfits likely would take little to no effort and fixing some bugs shouldn't prove too difficult provided they have the source code. There are PC mods that have fixed some of the infamous ones so I don't think its at all out of the question.

I even straight up said I had no fucking idea what you were talking about in the original comment I replied to because it was 100% incoherent. It was next to impossible what you were saying the remaster could or couldn't be.

 

[Juxtapose]

I think part of the problem with communication in this thread is different people seem to define "remaster" in a different light.

I'm seeing "remaster" used to describe "re-releases" and in a few instances, "remakes."