What law says it's not ok to use the same move more than once in a competitive match?

[xKMMx]

I have been getting a ton of hate mail and people popping off on me when I beat them using Sheeva. As you can guess its because amongst all other things like combos Imm catching them with stomp. Usually I use stomp off a string or even an anti air for those that just cant stomp jumping. But I do use it neutral against heavy zoners like Cetrion and those Skarlets that like to play the full screen game.
It doesn't matter what else I do such as combo. make reads and punish, mix up with rushdown use V3's stance cancels or flawless block jump 3's into a full punish, interrupt gaps in strings into full combo...… they see none of this. They all will inevitably be triggered by stomp if its landing on them and say that's the only thing I do or the only reason I won.

I positive we have all experienced this kind of salt laden tirade at one point or another and Im kinda sick of it lol. To me when someone bitch's about losing to the same move, string or whatever it's just a revelation of how scrubby they are and how they don't think whatsoever about why they are getting hit by the same shit over and over.

My thoughts on what is good play have evolved a lot recently. I used to be triggered by people that throw me over and over, zoners, Sub Zero's asshole mix and even losing a match to a raw fatal blow.

I'm to the point where I think nothing is "bad play" if its effective within the rounds of that match against that opponent. Do I like to play zoners that just blast away in the corner? Hell no. Its annoying and not the kind of match I like. But does that make zoning "spamming"? Not really. Shit the object of the game it to win. If I get zoned out it's because I don't have knowledge or skill to get around it. Or maybe I do but I just don't execute well enough within that match to get to my opponent and win.

I used to literally lose matches where both my opponent and I had Fatal Blow loaded up and I had opportunity to use it but wouldn't because I didn't consider it "honorable" play and they hit me with theirs raw. I used to think that was the scrubbiest shit ever and maybe it is...…but it got the win.

I guess the rant here is just to ask why do we have these laws about how others are supposed to play. Sure being an unga bunga Kung Lao jumping all over the place throwing out random ass dive kicks and tele' is shit play at a high level and not at all viable... but if that's how some one wants to play because it works in certain scenarios for them shit let em do it and if you lose to that it's on you. I know I have and I get super pissed at myself.

I'm sick of getting the "all you do is combos" messages. What's with the entitled elitist bullshit in fighting games where people will not respect a win if you don't play the way they think your "supposed" to play? Not every one wants or has to play footsies/neutral. And when I find something my opponent obviously cannot stop no matter how cheap why in the hell would I stop doing it?

Thoughts on this anyone?

 

[Pygmy_Potato]

You should read “Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion” by David Sirlin.

In short - we don’t have these laws and anyone who insists otherwise is a scrub who should be ignored. Get that W.

 

[Syzoth]

Not gonna lie, didn't read the whole post. But considering stomp is one of Sheeva's most consistent KB you're very likely to go for atleast 3 in a match. I play variation two myself so I feel the hate mail xD People are going to hate whatever character you use for one reason or another, atleast with this it's their fault for not walking in the proper direction.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

You should read “Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion” by David Sirlin.

In short - we don’t have these laws and anyone who insists otherwise is a scrub who should be ignored. Get that W.

I second this statement.

I love cheap characters because they have the psychological effect of getting under my opponent's skin before the fight even starts. If you're getting hated on, you're doing your job right. Get that W.

 

[Juxtapose]

You should read “Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion” by David Sirlin.

In short - we don’t have these laws and anyone who insists otherwise is a scrub who should be ignored. Get that W.

I third this. It's a fantastic read.

 

[Daemantalo]

This is a rule brought about by laziness and the frustration that follow because no one wants to put effort into countering characters. Why are you letting people influence how you play the game? If your opponents get hit by stomp 9 times in a match, I guarantee you that when you let the 10th rip and win the match, they will not practice or lab to find basic workarounds. Honor... What is this Chickenshit Bushido-ism? FGs are full of dirty things that you have to deal with during the thousands plus versus matches you’ll inevitably be playing. There is no honor. Only mechanics.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

There is no honor. Only mechanics.

I will drink to this.

Story time. I mained Cyrax in MK9. It was my first serious dive into picking up a game, and I wasn't even particularly good, but I caught no end of shit and hatemail and all of the things because of it. I splintered myself into bits trying to play everyone else because I felt like a dick for making someone "broken," and by the time the game was over I could at least half-competently play like three quarters of the cast. But no one else was Cyrax. They could've taken the resets, nerfed his damage, make his B121 command grab a knockdown, I wouldn't have cared. That was my robot, 100%, and I regret all the time not devoting ALL of my time and attention to him instead of becoming a walking character crisis.

Keep being Sheeva.
Stomp everyone's fucking heads in.

 

[Juxtapose]

I will drink to this.

Story time. I mained Cyrax in MK9. It was my first serious dive into picking up a game, and I wasn't even particularly good, but I caught no end of shit and hatemail and all of the things because of it. I splintered myself into bits trying to play everyone else because I felt like a dick for making someone "broken," and by the time the game was over I could at least half-competently play like three quarters of the cast. But no one else was Cyrax. They could've taken the resets, nerfed his damage, make his B121 command grab a knockdown, I wouldn't have cared. That was my robot, 100%, and I regret all the time not devoting ALL of my time and attention to him instead of becoming a walking character crisis.

Keep being Sheeva.
Stomp everyone's fucking heads in.

Yup. So long as you are playing within the rules of the game itself (i.e. not using a cheat, lag switch, or other exploit), it's all fair game. People everywhere, not just in fighting games, but in everything, like to create random, arbitrary rules that do nothing but hold them back from their full potential.

As a Mileena main, frustrating people is part of the game plan .

For Mortal Kombat 11, the objective of the game is to win the match. Period. If you're opponent can't handle a move repeatedly, that's on them.

 

[xKMMx]

You should read “Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion” by David Sirlin.

In short - we don’t have these laws and anyone who insists otherwise is a scrub who should be ignored. Get that W.

Right on. I'll check it out. I used to get caught up in that bullshit. But to make a sports analogy... in football if a defense cant stop the run the other team doesnt start doing passing plays just so they dont get called spammers. No one calls Steph Curry a spammer because he hits 6-9 three pointers a game. I say do what's working until it stops working.

 

[xKMMx]

Not gonna lie, didn't read the whole post. But considering stomp is one of Sheeva's most consistent KB you're very likely to go for atleast 3 in a match. I play variation two myself so I feel the hate mail xD People are going to hate whatever character you use for one reason or another, atleast with this it's their fault for not walking in the proper direction.

Yea and it's kinda that tool that is the elephant in the room whenever she is on screen and you can use it to control what your opponent is going to do because they have to stay constantly aware. I catch so many people trying to zone me out by baiting an ex projectile then doing the stomp. I play V3 and the thing I do more than anything is try to get people to block low with her low grab to set up her combos and mix up off her stance and cancel. So basically I play her the way she is meant to be played if I can.

 

[xKMMx]

This is a rule brought about by laziness and the frustration that follow because no one wants to put effort into countering characters. Why are you letting people influence how you play the game? If your opponents get hit by stomp 9 times in a match, I guarantee you that when you let the 10th rip and win the match, they will not practice or lab to find basic workarounds. Honor... What is this Chickenshit Bushido-ism? FGs are full of dirty things that you have to deal with during the thousands plus versus matches you’ll inevitably be playing. There is no honor. Only mechanics.

100 percent and that is my response to every hate message or pop off on the mic. Like if you can't back dash or double back dash then punish that shit it's on you cause that shit is crazy unsafe, But people do dumb shit over and over like try to jump forward or jump back and KEEP GETTING HIT. If they dont adapt why should I let em off the hook? I dont want to win only using stomp .... i love doing all her other fun shit way more.

 

[Daemantalo]

100 percent and that is my response to every hate message or pop off on the mic.

You can give all the counters in the world such as don’t be overzealous with projectiles, patiently advance and react to fireball, calmly walk forward or back when she jumps, dash forward on reaction, Highborn Kitana etc. This still won’t prevent that fact that few players know how to chill and analyze both the field and respective character strengths from fullscreen. Some people just have a burning DESIRE to hit buttons or throw out specials, as if this is solely a game of getting as much presence on the screen as possible.

As Boxy said: show them the error of their ways and keep stomping heads. There are some characters in this game you need to develop a special approach for.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

You can give all the counters in the world such as don’t be overzealous with projectiles, patiently advance and react to fireball, calmly walk forward or back when she jumps, dash forward on reaction, Highborn Kitana etc. This still won’t prevent that fact that few players know how to chill and analyze both the field and respective character strengths from fullscreen. Some people just have a burning DESIRE to hit buttons or throw out specials, as if this is solely a game of getting as much presence on the screen as possible.

As Boxy said: show them the error of their ways and keep stomping heads. There are some characters in this game you need to develop a special approach for.

That is a fact, friend.

The one thing that makes MK11 viable, and IMO would make it great if it wasn't for the strike-throw meta and the limitations of having the half-done variations over open custom builds: the fact that it's a more simple MKII style approach makes it a LOT easier to learn what comes with fighting other characters, and high level fights almost always come down to knowledge vs knowledge rather than exploitation of a lack of knowledge. You might never beat Dragon's Cetrion or Biohazard's Kano, but you can sit down with a pen and a pad, compare your main and all their data to their main and their data, and have a pretty good idea in a fairly small amount of time of all the options or lack thereof you're going to have in that fight.

 

[xKMMx]

On another note the only time I get pissed off when I lose to dumb shit (like I have been allllllllllll day) is when I know what is coming and what to do about it and fail to execute. Today is one of those days I fell like I should just quit LOL. Like the past three days I have been tearing people apart, making reads, baiting shit, flawless blocking and punishing gaps like it was as simple and easy as breathing. Today im getting beat the likes of Eron Blacks that do nothing but his running drop kick and slide. Literally just got beat by a dude who only did that and grab.

 

[Juxtapose]

On another note the only time I get pissed off when I lose to dumb shit (like I have been allllllllllll day) is when I know what is coming and what to do about it and fail to execute. Today is one of those days I fell like I should just quit LOL. Like the past three days I have been tearing people apart, making reads, baiting shit, flawless blocking and punishing gaps like it was as simple and easy as breathing. Today im getting beat the likes of Eron Blacks that do nothing but his running drop kick and slide. Literally just got beat by a dude who only did that and grab.

Knowing when to take a breather is a big plus. We all have off days.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Bro... People complain when they lose. It had nothing to do with you.

 

[Juggs]

You should read “Playing to Win: Becoming the Champion” by David Sirlin.

In short - we don’t have these laws and anyone who insists otherwise is a scrub who should be ignored. Get that W.

I have had this bookmarked for like over 10 years now: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE should read this. It has helped me so much.

 

[Swindle]

I’ll try to cool it on the mail.
And I didn’t really mean those things I said about your grandma. Or that stuff about your moms affair.
And I would never do that in your sisters hair. I’ve never met her, so don’t know why I said that, haha my bad.
And I would NEVER eat someone’s pet. That was way outta line.
GGs.

 

[TheDoctaMario]

Losers will always make excuses for why they're losers, and if someone gets that mad about losing a match and wastes their time typing a rage message, with a PS pad no less, then they've lost twice. Especially because they could have taken the time they spent typing said message to lab out reactions to what they got rekt by.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

To be a winner you have to learn to feed on salt.

Your opponent’s weakness (including the mental ones) is your strength.

 

[Trustful_Whale]

I positive we have all experienced this kind of salt laden tirade at one point or another

Yes, and it's delicious every time. Yum yum yum.

 

[Obly]

Well look, before trying to analyze this on a deeper level (unwritten rules of behavior and what not), consider a few basic facts:

1) A FG is a competitive setting. People in general feel triggered when they lose a competition. That's totally normal.

2) Most of the player base is younger folks, mostly young males, and many (most?) are immature. I don't mean that as an insult; it's meant literally: There's a physical maturation process required to learn how to control impulses and regulate emotions. A mature player will still feel a surge of frustration at losing, but can quickly get it under control and stay civil. An immature player is much more likely to lash out at the target of their frustration: You, the person who beat them.

Those go for any FG. For MK11 in particular, it's also built up a popular mythos (rightly or wrongly, depending on your perspective) of being a very easy-execution and therefore scrub-friendly game. You can try to reason and argue (rightly, I think) that there are other important factors to being good at MK11: smart decision-making, weighing risk vs. reward (using Sheeva's stomp is a great example). But nah dawg, that doesn't matter to the mythos: If it's physically easy to input on your controller and effective in a match, it's a 'cheap' move.

Immature, competitive players are especially triggered by 'cheap' moves. In their mind, that instantly pegs you as a filthy scrublord who couldn't win if the inputs were more difficult to execute. Losing to 'cheap' moves is especially infuriating, because it feels like the game is unfair, rewarding game play that takes no 'skill' (again 'skill' being about nothing but execution). Even when you lose, I bet you get tbagged mercilessly as 'punishment' for trying to get a 'cheap' win.

Anyway, as the OP and others have said, you can try to avoid using the moves that trigger people the most, but what's really the point? Then you're not playing the character the way you personally enjoy, and you're hobbling your own chances of winning.

F@#k 'em, man. They'll grow up someday (we hope).

 

[Shanedawg1995]

I am assuming you are talking about offline play.
Not online.
Because all I see online are garbage Jade Scorpian Sheeva players who get to Demi God or higher because they take adavantage of the ping to the externme.
Cant react probably to anything online and majority of players would be trash offline.
So offcourse you are going to get hate mail because reads turn into hard reads.j
Jump ins Sfomp Teleports Subs overheada and many more are just taken adavantage of online even Sonic Fox says Subzero is S++ tier online.
Unfortunately online is all some of us have because we dont live in a big city or there are not locals to try to get bettter.
So expect to get hate mail on line now offline everyone has a no advantage just play the game!!

 

[lusca_bueno]

Using the same move more than once should be read as a weakness to be exploited, a pattern you could study how to break and counter easily, because the opponent is gonna repeat it over and over. I'll never understand the idea that spamming a move is to the benefit of the player doing it.

 

[NickDaGreek1983]

Let's be serious here...

Unblockable moves ARE rage-inducing.
Remember Cyrax's bombs or Quan Chi's woolays ?