That Tom Brady dude on the block and punish with normals game

[Gaxkang]

He knows more stuff than I do for sure...but I do feel like the punishing on block game needs help. I haven't played the new patch, but I bet it still needs work.

 

[gitblame]

Yeah. It's my complaint for NRS titles since I ever tried Tekken. In Tekken when something is let's say punishable by 10f move and you have 10f move. You just see that moved getting blocked and you press your punish. And it works. Smooth as fuck. In NRS games it varies. Sometimes you can move just as soon as you blocked something. Like Sonyas B123. It's -10 but if you want to punish you have to press just as you blocked last hit. Sometimes block stun is weird and you are stuck and you have to wait precise moment before you can press your punish. It's very confusing. But yeah I think in this game it's much better than it was in MKX or INJ2.

 

[DeftMonk]

Would be nice if u could buffer normals in reversal window during block stun.

 

[greeneless]

There is a way to do it consistently, or at least around 90%, but if his argument is that it should be 100% then I agree that it should be easier

I think if you don't let go of block fast enough it takes a frame away from you (so other games without a block button wouldn't have this issue on a 1f punish). Could help switch block off of controller triggers as well?

 

[SinkFla]

"Your hands are dumb". LMFAO. This is an interesting video and I've wondered about the same stuff tbh. Good talk @Tom Brady

 

[NothingPersonal]

It's been aproblem since MK9. It has to do woth block stun and recovery on block. In MK, after you block you have to wait for both the opponent to recover and for your blockstun to pass, and only then you can press buttons. This, practically you have to learn how to punish every move on block, even if they are both the same advantage on block. One particular example is Sub's f321. It is -5 I believe, but has so little blockstun that online it is plus. Shao's b4 is -2, but is easier to counter because has moe blockstun. Plus MK11 has 3 frames of blue clstun buffer I believe, so it helps. In MK9 pokes were very minus, but had so little blockstun that Kitana could spam her -15 on block d1 like Geras does now.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

I got away with so many F13s with Kung Lao because of this and I still miss that punish regularly

 

[Cheesus]

There is no 1f recovery when releasing block, someone from NRS confirmed this. Players are just used to input buffers from other games. Also, some people still don't know that in NRS games, startup does not include the 1st active frame.

 

[Marlow]

Interesting. I've tried other games and I guess I haven't really noticed much of a difference between punishing with normal in MK/NRS games compared to others, but my execution isn't that great across the board so maybe I just wasn't noticing.

Seems like with just a little practice though Tom was starting to hit that punish pretty consistently.

 

[Enexemander]

I was noticing this in training mode a while ago. For me, the biggest thing is that I have to release block WAY earlier than what I thought before testing it.
Unless it's one of those moves with stupid blockstun, in which case it's just annoying.

 

[Sazbak]

It's been aproblem since MK9. It has to do woth block stun and recovery on block. In MK, after you block you have to wait for both the opponent to recover and for your blockstun to pass, and only then you can press buttons. This, practically you have to learn how to punish every move on block, even if they are both the same advantage on block. One particular example is Sub's f321. It is -5 I believe, but has so little blockstun that online it is plus. Shao's b4 is -2, but is easier to counter because has moe blockstun. Plus MK11 has 3 frames of blue clstun buffer I believe, so it helps. In MK9 pokes were very minus, but had so little blockstun that Kitana could spam her -15 on block d1 like Geras does now.

When it comes to taking your turn against Sub's b321 I think there are other factors that might prevent you to do so. Sub might have finished his b3 string earlier in previous occasions so you are conditioned to look out for b32. Also the move is reallly quick and as it was mentioned, it has hardly any blockstun. Sub's d1 is a 6f move also.

I heard 70 ms ping causes 1 frame of delay so even if you play aginst someone with 140 ping he is still -3 against you.
I see people failing to take their turns after b321 in live tourney games so lag is only part of the reason. The rest is what I mentioned above.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Yeah. It's my complaint for NRS titles since I ever tried Tekken. In Tekken when something is let's say punishable by 10f move and you have 10f move. You just see that moved getting blocked and you press your punish. And it works. Smooth as fuck. In NRS games it varies. Sometimes you can move just as soon as you blocked something. Like Sonyas B123. It's -10 but if you want to punish you have to press just as you blocked last hit. Sometimes block stun is weird and you are stuck and you have to wait precise moment before you can press your punish. It's very confusing. But yeah I think in this game it's much better than it was in MKX or INJ2.

Pressing buttons out of block stun is still a learning process for me and one of the absolute weirdest things about getting used to this NRS thing for me, jumping into mk11 having not played a fighting game since tekken tag.

 

[Sazbak]

Combine the weird varying blockstun behavior in NRS games with the scrub/mash friendliness of the d2 and you get frustrating situations e.g.
Opponent is doing an unsafe move that you can punish with standing jab. You don't have familiarity with that specific move so you try to punish it too late or to early with an 11 string. Only the 1 comes out but with an imperfect timing while the opponent(since he has nothing to lose) mashes d2.

Result: Not only you don't get to combo the opponent, you actually suffer a fat d2 KB punish.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Yeah, the blockstun has always been all over the map. It wouldn’t be so bad except that there are some really egregious extremes; stuff you have to punish super fast, and stuff you have to wait forever to punish, even though it has nothing to do with the frames.

I feel like they should even it out more in future games, as there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it sometimes.

 

[Marlow]

Maybe I'm just not understanding, but I always thought blockstun was already accounted for in the frames? Is it just a matter of when the game starts reading inputs is different, which messes up the timing?

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Maybe I'm just not understanding, but I always thought blockstun was already accounted for in the frames? Is it just a matter of when the game starts reading inputs is different, which messes up the timing?

Nah, there's something independent of recovery that determines when you can actually start to punish something, regardless of the frames or inputs.

 

[Qwark28]

Yeah, the blockstun has always been all over the map. It wouldn’t be so bad except that there are some really egregious extremes; stuff you have to punish super fast, and stuff you have to wait forever to punish, even though it has nothing to do with the frames.

I feel like they should even it out more in future games, as there seems to be no rhyme or reason to it sometimes.

E.G shao kahn shoulder in comparison to jades staff spin.

 

[Zhidoreptiloid]

1. blockstun is shit
2. buffer for normals is good (like in soul calibur 6)

 

[Groove Heaven]

Yeah I like NRS games but I've always hated this stuff. I have very limited free time these days and can't afford spending hours in practice mode getting the timing down for every punish in the game, I wish it felt more intuitive to punish certain things.

 

[DeftMonk]

Buffer would just solve the problem honestly. So many moves have rediculous fast recovery and some really long when you add online into the equation you get fools getting away with murder left and right.

 

[DeftMonk]

Yeah I like NRS games but I've always hated this stuff. I have very limited free time these days and can't afford spending hours in practice mode getting the timing down for every punish in the game, I wish it felt more intuitive to punish certain things.

For those of us who do have the time it still is a pain in the ass online (for me anyway) anything with a really tight punish window I just started reversal throw or reversal special and just saying fuck it if connection isn’t amazing.

 

[Tony at Home]

More input buffer for normals would be a very welcome change. IIRC on block it's a 2 frame buffer? Meaning you sometimes have to fish for a 3 frame window amidst an ocean of blockstun frames.

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]

He is so right about the MK communitys only response to aaaaanything is "git gud" or "just practice" something like that. Everyone wants to be high and mighty. It's a fragile ego.

 

[Marinjuana]

Yeah. It's my complaint for NRS titles since I ever tried Tekken. In Tekken when something is let's say punishable by 10f move and you have 10f move. You just see that moved getting blocked and you press your punish. And it works. Smooth as fuck. In NRS games it varies. Sometimes you can move just as soon as you blocked something. Like Sonyas B123. It's -10 but if you want to punish you have to press just as you blocked last hit. Sometimes block stun is weird and you are stuck and you have to wait precise moment before you can press your punish. It's very confusing. But yeah I think in this game it's much better than it was in MKX or INJ2.

I think stuff like Sonya's B123 and Jax's amplified dash punch throw are two good examples of the type of stuff that plagued past games but isn't nearly as common in MK11. Flash's lightning kick comes to mind, just a case where something is frustratingly hard to punish seemingly just so they can have a clean animation. Overall they've done so much better of a job of making things that should be punishable easily punishable though. Like it feels good and you don't miss a ton of punishes because stuff is too fast to react to

 

[DeftMonk]

More input buffer for normals would be a very welcome change. IIRC on block it's a 2 frame buffer? Meaning you sometimes have to fish for a 3 frame window amidst an ocean of blockstun frames.

I honestly had no idea there was any buffer (guess im dumb) I just thought there was a buffer for attacks that can come out as reversals. I just been tryin to just frame that shit like an idiot.