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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
oh
jcbowie said:
It's abundantly clear you just have no idea what you're talking about bro. Just randomly saying "b-but all his matchups are 4-6!!!" and just hand-waving away his great frames because they don't suit your downplay.

We clearly did our homework, responded to everything you complained about, now's a chance to do yours. Demonstrate incontrovertibly to me that he overwhelmingly loses matchups to the rest of the cast. Otherwise, maybe it'd be wise to stop whining boss.
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Oh I will don't worry about it. And it won't be my words only but of top players and known players as well. I just need a PC to get all info which I'll get to in a day or to but rest assured I will.

In the meantime I'll just leave you with this:

SilverRye complained Cage is op because he was losing to him. He picked up Cage then ADMITTED ON TWITTER he sucked, went back to Kang and ignored every tweet exposing him, while retweeting bullshit about cage to cover his ass.

Which is probably what you will all do in the end.

But until then I suggest to go win some majors with Cage quickly, beat all Cassies and Sonyas and all female hitbox chars with your op buttons go go go
 
R

Rain and Light

Noob
jcbowie said:
It's abundantly clear you just have no idea what you're talking about bro. Just randomly saying "b-but all his matchups are 4-6!!!" and just hand-waving away his great frames because they don't suit your downplay.

We clearly did our homework, responded to everything you complained about, now's a chance to do yours. Demonstrate incontrovertibly to me that he overwhelmingly loses matchups to the rest of the cast. Otherwise, maybe it'd be wise to stop whining boss.
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I mean this is pretty self exploratory- why johnny has so many bad matchups, because you clearly believe johnny has top buttons or is the leader of the footsies clan or something, but that couldn't be farther from the truth, Jade Cassie Sonya kollector and somewhat frost can out zone him out shimmy him and just have better overall tools to enforce it. Point is johnny isn't special, he's not unique at what he does and he's not the best at what he does and Johnny can only play what he does and that's a problem. He's easily countered by the opponent knowing his flaws F3 being high, mashing pokes or checks literally shuts his whole character down because he doesn't have a weapon a hitbox is attached to his ranged shimmy and footsie tools ETC ETC, he's not top tier material by any means and to claim so is a short circuit of many dead braincells as a requirement to believe such a thing. at this point MD knows what he's talking about and he just proved something to you, his plus frames are useless, they're not a factor stop bringing it up already, you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I won't attempt to give you detailed reasons because MD is better at that.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Wifi match, where hitting a 14 frame high after +6 can't even be ducked.

That'd surely help Cage, top tier right there XD
 
L

LMNYHappyDaze

Noob
The issue with Johhny is that he plays footies well. But that's really kinda it. Once that fails hes kinda fucked. He doesn't have a way to open anyone up, his throws leave him with no Oki. His damage isn't that explosive outside of fatal blow territory and depending on the match up he can't even zone properly because forceballs wiff on crouch block.

When Johnny is firing on all cylinders hes solid. Not the best, not the worst. But when the match up Is bad, it's really bad as he has no other tools to rely on except good buttons.

Also just comparing his tools to the rest of the cast, he lacks a bit. But we all already know this but it can't be overlooked that his KBs are bad while most characters have decent to good ones. No throw Oki, no mids.

All of this creates a character that plays much differently from the rest of the cast. He has to rely on neutral play and being more or less perfect with wiff punishing and baiting while other characters can stagger you all day, do explosive damage with kbs or throw loop you to death. Cage can do none of this.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
LMNYHappyDaze said:
The issue with Johhny is that he plays footies well. But that's really kinda it. Once that fails hes kinda fucked. He doesn't have a way to open anyone up, his throws leave him with no Oki. His damage isn't that explosive outside of fatal blow territory and depending on the match up he can't even zone properly because forceballs wiff on crouch block.

When Johnny is firing on all cylinders hes solid. Not the best, not the worst. But when the match up Is bad, it's really bad as he has no other tools to rely on except good buttons.

Also just comparing his tools to the rest of the cast, he lacks a bit. But we all already know this but it can't be overlooked that his KBs are bad while most characters have decent to good ones. No throw Oki, no mids.

All of this creates a character that plays much differently from the rest of the cast. He has to rely on neutral play and being more or less perfect with wiff punishing and baiting while other characters can stagger you all day, do explosive damage with kbs or throw loop you to death. Cage can do none of this.
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Agreed.

I guess there's upplayers, there's downplayers, and then there are guys like us.

I really do hope the pros start using Cage in tournament, forcing people to adopt strategies to counter him. He's not a bad character, but it really needs to be shown that he's not top tier too.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
Name v.5.0 said:
Agreed.

I guess there's upplayers, there's downplayers, and then there are guys like us.

I really do hope the pros start using Cage in tournament, forcing people to adopt strategies to counter him. He's not a bad character, but it really needs to be shown that he's not top tier too.
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It’s like I said, most of the “upplayers” aren’t even real upplayers they are just doing it because they know it gets a rise out of you guys.

I’m optimistic about this third variation though, would have liked to see pissed off but oh well. You
 
A

A-List_Failure

Noob
I've been reading this forum since the game came out. I main only Johnny and for the most part, will probably only play Johnny sadly. By no means am I an expert, but Johnny isn't this high tier monster the pros want everyone to believe. I don't see his highs being an issue, but a lack of KB. In a game where KBs are one of the main game functions, it boggles my mind on why NRS thought it was serviceable to give him realistically only two practical KBs. D2 being universal to all and his sunglasses KB, while very good, is very situational. Playing Johnny forces you to play another game entirely, and by no means is he a bad character, but Johnny is nothing special. He's honest, too honest. In a game where a one hit KB could be a third of your life, and you're forced to playing 4d chess just to do maybe 10% on spare hits here and there. Any good player who understands the Johnny matchup will not also fall for any of the "plus" frames. And while I don't believe it was intended for him to have this incredibly jailing plus advantage, (as evidence that none of his more neutral footsie tools aren't guaranteed after his plus frames), it makes me so annoyed that Johnny players are forced to play at any already bigger disadvantage. For what reason does Scorpion need to have solid staggers, good KBs, and wayyy better damage in his V2, than Johnny does because he's "plus". He's not a bad character, but lets not think he's something amazing. If his lack of KBs are a way of balancing him, than I got nothing else to say but I hate my life for legit loving his character.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
I can literally feel every ranked match pain in the above posts.

I can't even understand these upplayers, did they really lose so horribly bad to a cage to overblow his stuff so bad?

It's only when you get frost d4ed out of your entire movelist after your "plus" frames when you start to realise the uphill battle you're playing.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
When I watch top matches aside from a few maniacs who throw out the occasional mad shit most people at that level play very respectful. I really think that's a hindrance against cage.

You should be challenging his plus frames and buttons more than most of the cast because he does not have a reliable check.

Ive seen high level matches where they just don't challenge forceballs plus frames, let them do f3s for free all match in the mid-range. I just don't get it. But I'm not on their level so maybe they have their reasons.
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Wigy said:
When I watch top matches aside from a few maniacs who throw out the occasional mad shit most people at that level play very respectful. I really think that's a hindrance against cage.

You should be challenging his plus frames and buttons more than most of the cast because he does not have a reliable check.

Ive seen high level matches where they just don't challenge forceballs plus frames, let them do f3s for free all match in the mid-range. I just don't get it. But I'm not on their level so maybe they have their reasons.
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I'm guessing it's mainly because they play as and against other top tiers. Mashing d4 is great againt Cage, not so much against Liu or Geras.
 
R

Rain and Light

Noob
Does anybody else feel like johnny got robbed, like... Why is F3 14 frames? That's unbelievably stupid, Jax has something similar except it's a mid and 9 frames i believe, Poor Johnny man, like these devs just don't give a single sh**
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
MagicMan357 said:
Havent seen one good reason why hes bad yet...
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Um...nobody said he's bad.

There were hundred reasons that:

He's not bad
He's not top tier
He's high-mid tier


I believe nobody here asked for 9 frame mids and safe 50-50.

However, here's one reason to keep you going until the rest come:

1.backdash counters all followups to 124 midscreen so you get plus frames WITH pushback ONLY in the corner where you can't guarantee a mid or a throw, only d4
2. forceballs whiff on MORE THAN HALF the cast so you will NOT GET plus frames on any other string than 124

S tier lol
 
R

Rain and Light

Noob
Rain and Light said:
Does anybody else feel like johnny got robbed, like... Why is F3 14 frames? That's unbelievably stupid, Jax has something similar except it's a mid and 9 frames i believe, Poor Johnny man, like these devs just don't give a single sh**
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F3 should be 11 frames... You know what now that i think about it why hasn't anybody brought this up yet? We should be talking about this, Imagine the immense difference and the immense amount of stress would life off of Cage players shoulders if his F3 were faster and less unsafe? On any other character it would just be "They need that too succeed bro" but if johnny got it it'd be like "OMFG Johnny top tier footsie tool unpunishable unreactible leads to all damage stagger. Hit confirmable safe mixup 5050 practically a krushing blow broken to the core! ANTI AIR INCLUDED AHHH OMFG MOM GET THE CAMERA!" The double standard in this community is unreal.
 
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