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Kombat League points penalty is really messed up - should it be changed?

Should points penalty be changed in Kombat League?

  • Yes, you shouldn't lose more than double of what you play for (e.g. +10/-20, +15/-30)

    Votes: 67 95.7%

  • No, I'm okay to lose -100, -91, -87 every time I'm matched with a lower ranked player

    Votes: 3 4.3%
  • Total voters
    70
imMORTAL KOMBATant

imMORTAL KOMBATant

Noob
To be clear: I have nothing against scoring big points. So if you're the lower ranked player and want to play for 100-150 points, go for it! If you're a late starter and want to rank up quick having the skill and konfidence, do it!

But as I see it, there are a lot of us, hardcore fans but half-decent players who either don't have the skill or time to be at the pro level but still play the game and Kombat League regularly. For us, reaching the higher ranks is a grind, an investment of lot of time and we're on the recieving end of a lot of toxicity. As long as I'm still having fun in the end, I don't mind the grind but there are moments when it feels like it doesn't worth it.

When 7 out of 10 matches are for 10, 15 or 20 points with the potential loss of -67, -81 or -100, that can be a real bummer! Losing more points that I can win in 3-4 matches is far from balanced matchmaking and it's sometimes again players with 18/1 or 74/9 W/L ratio that clearly shows they're not rookies just happened to be at a lower ranked. Should we really lose that much points because we started earlier or reached a higher lever faster?

I think you should never lose more points than double of what you play for. How about you, fellow kombatants?
 
Agilaz

Agilaz

It has begun
The point system is stupid. People will say "hurr durr thats how ELO works", conveniently forgetting that ELO is meant to pair people within their own divisions.

Most of us started early in KL. We fought to climb, we fell down, climbed back up etc. Starting late should not be an advantage. If you dont wanna bother the first two weeks, more power to you. But then you climb like the rest of us, 20-50 points at a time.

Matchmaking should take into consideration rank first, then total amount of points. The difference in points should never be above 300. That tends to keep matchmaking even, and if it means I have to wait longer for a game then so be it.

FFS I got matched with YoVideoGamez yesterday. I was at 3.8k, he at 7.5k. I got mopped obviously, but in what universe is that good matchmaking??
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
Seriously though, that is how elo works. They might need to tweak their algorithm though. Ideally it should be based more on expected winning %, with the points for winning and losing proportionally reflecting that relationship.
 
imMORTAL KOMBATant

imMORTAL KOMBATant

Noob
That's one step further but IMO that would be even better if you could play against people in your own division, that is your Rank. Even now it works like that: if you're 50-50 with someone you play for 50 points and you lose -15. If you're a slight favorite, it's +40, -20, if you're the underdog, it's +60, -10.

But again, I don't mind if NRS want to reward the lower Ranked with big scores like +95 or +150. But it should be like this: reward the lower ranked winner and do not punish the loser with an excessive penalty. Nobody likes to get beaten so losing itself is a penalty. You don't move forward, you lose points. Playing for +10 with a penalty of -100 (it happened to me today) sucks in itself and is totally demotivating. The closer I am to my goal, the less I wanna play because I don't want to risk my points in unbalanced matchups like these. If I win two matches and score 90-100 points I call it a day before I lost 87 points against a Warrior and lose all my progress in 1 set.

So the biggest takeaway from the 3 seasons is reward the winner. But don't punish the loser with more than double the points he could have gained. Losing 100 points when you could have gained 10 is absolutely unfair!
 
F

FonicSox

Mortal
I don't mind the high point loss if you're fighting someone two full ranks below you. The real issue isn't being matched with that person, it's the fact that person may be a smurf account or a high ranking player that just got to the KL grind late rather than someone that genuinely isn't as good as you are. The ELO system works fine, just not when everyone (tournament level players and newbies alike) starts from scratch every season.

Makes me think there needs to be an MMR system in place so everyone doesn't start from 0. It's also odd that the first 2-3 ranks can't even lose points, rendering them a complete waste of time. You're guaranteed to make it out of Apprentice/Kombatant regardless of skill or win/loss and there's so few ranks as it is.

I honestly don't care that much either way I guess. It's just a grind for rewards, the ranks themselves don't mean a whole lot and in this game in particular are not even a good indicator of skill.
 
mastermalone

mastermalone

Use only logic, please
Yeah, the point system is bad. I've been the victim of more late starting MK11 god-like players than I can count. I've lost an easy 1000+ points thanks to them. What I did gain was more experience against higher level players than myself. I then use said experience to destroy players more on my level.

I wish you would lose no more than 30 points for losing a set. The 100 point loss is unacceptable. I've been flirting with Grandmaster and the top of Master for 3 days. I'm over both of them and I'm ready to move on. I guess I just have to "git gud."
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Maybe if there was a competitive argument outside of "I don't like losing points when I lose, I want to keep my points" you might get somewhere.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
imMORTAL KOMBATant said:
So the biggest takeaway from the 3 seasons is reward the winner. But don't punish the loser with more than double the points he could have gained. Losing 100 points when you could have gained 10 is absolutely unfair!
Click to expand...
That's a fine system, although then your ranking is going to be based more on your ability to grind and play a large number of matches, regardless of the competition, as opposed to trying to determine some kind of skill level.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
It's not the points. You absolutely should be beating people ranked below you, just like in any other open-league system.

The issue is that they just shouldn't fully reset everyone to the bottom rank every season. @FonicSox nailed it.

The thing is, a ranked league system is not supposed to be a grind. It's supposed to just tell you were you stand, and match you with people around the same level.

I guess they didn't want to just hand people rewards for starting at a certain rank, but starting everyone from 0 each time really screws with an Elo-style system imo.
 
SwiftEagle

SwiftEagle

Apprentice
It's a problem that's affects every genre, not just fighting games. It's very stupid how your rank resets after "seasons" too. Instead of "placement matches" we have to play the best players in the game when the season first starts. So you're actually at an advantage when you sit out the first week. Win 5 matches straight? Barely move up! Lose one match to a scrub Jax player that hit you with a lucky fatal blow from mid screen? Fuck you and derank! Then if you have shit to do or want to play other games you lose rank? What a childish, immature, and petty strategy to get players to keep playing. Do the devs know something we don't? Perhaps we should have a population counter.
This is a trend/cancer that started with FPS games and it's spreading like wild fire. This dumbass "season" system. When you rank up, you should KEEP your rank until you lose it! Otherwise playing KL is pointless. Horrible game design.
 
Vslayer

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
I like the point system, but I feel like the points you lose/gain should be attributed to your rank and nothing else. There's still an issue of fighting someone of another rank and that will always be that way, perhaps there should be a universal point system instead.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
Mikemetroid said:
What if I told you that the points don't matter at all and don't reflect skill? :eek:
Click to expand...
What if I told you someone found it fun to progress up the ranks. If you're guna throw pointless shade at least make it funny fam.

Also with monthly elo reset there is a huge chance you're guna play someone who's way higher than their rank.

Most games I play they just keep point loss very similar and match you with equal skilled players.
 
Johnny Based Cage

Johnny Based Cage

The Shangest of Tsungs
When I first read the title I feared opening another thread chock full of “git gud, scrub” but really anyone who actually takes the time to read the well thought out points here should have nothing of the sort to say.

It really does seem like a problem to be at risk of losing your last hour +’s worth of progress almost every match against people who aren’t even necessarily at a lower skill level, just rank (due to less games total). Yikes, glad I don’t bother. Good thread.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
It'd be nice if they'd have two systems. One could be a Kombat League points, which would reset each season and follow the ideas outlined in the OP where you can never lose more than double what you play for. Essentially it would be a point system that rewards grinding, and would make sense to use to dole out rewards.

The other point system could be more of the traditional elo rating system that they're currently using, and it wouldn't change from season to season, it would remain somewhat constant.
 
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