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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
So, 15568even Tweedy gets it.

Everyone is literally covering up that he has no good mids to follow up on his only plus frame that whiffs on half the cast, with that stupid 60% combo.

Literally that's the only excuse. They don't even play the game to see that in order to do the combo, you have to open someone up first. And with really good players you do not get that chance very often as your throws are teched.

I really am trying not to foam at the mouth and start insulting people but when there are so many ignorant people out there it really starts to get annoying.

Is there any single matchup winning for Cage in this game now? does he have anything higher than 5-5 with anyone?
 
O

OceanOne

Noob
So... I'm not a Johnny player, I'm here to understand how he works and how to beat him. I know your character sucks and all that stuff but the characters are always worse in our heads than they really are on matches (talking about online experience), for example, I play Noob, I know how "meh" he is and it's hard for me to understand how people come to me asking how to beat him but I always try to stay humble and be empathetic towards people's struggles.


All that said.... I literally don't know how to deal with his pressure. I made a small post asking for directions and some nice dudes told me to duck because mostly everything he does is high. The thing is, it seems like he gets in and gets out with a kick (or something) that looks like it propels him forward and when I'm in the corner I'm literally dead. Every 2 weeks there's a different character that's insta win against me (I guess that's the learning process, right?) and this time it's Johnny. I don't know when he'll stop hitting me or when I can punish him, or even try to press buttons against him on the neutral.
Before anyone says I'm wasting their time because I should go to the lab and that I'm lazy, I think it's always awesome to talk to people that use the character and get to learn which moves are used the most and different play styles by different players.

Thanks a lot guys!
PS: If I take too long to reply I probably went to bed but I'll definitely read every answer and reply!
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Hi.

Noob is indeed one of the matchups where his amplified forceballs do not whiff. That means that he should, after strings on block, cancel into them and be +3 on block.

The issue with +3 on block is that Cage has the following buttons to get in

b3 - the low advancing kick. 18 frame startup. Meaning after +3 you have time to start a full combo with 113 if you see him do it. If you are not sure, just d4 guaranteed.

f3 - the high advancing kick. 16 frame startup, but it's a high. A d4 will always hit him out of it, but you still have time to 113 him out of it as it's a 13 frame gap. Just record it in practice mode and just start pressing buttons not respecting it and you'll see.

f4 - the mid advancing kick (knee). 14 frame startup, meaning you have an 11 frame gap. Still not guaranteed pressure, still free to d4. The window to press something is tighter here but still works.
After f4 he is -5, and after f44 he is -6, so it's a guaranteed grab attempt or b1 from your side, he has to guess. If he doesn't want it, he has to spend another bar for f4 amp forceballs.

Cage will have to spam his d4, which is +17 on hit and it guarantees a f3 (the forward high kick that follows up in the three mid kicks). This is his main and only tool to guarantee this string .


What Cage players usually (and should) do is fish for a d4 on hit, or walk back and make you whiff something, and then use one of the three kicks mentioned above.

The problem vs noob is that once Cage does f344 he is -2, and he cannot backdash d4 if you just mash it. It will always clip him. So his mindgame of doing the string and walking back to bait a whiff does not work here.

The biggest weakness to Cage is that on all 3 advancing kicks, he is very free to neutral jumps. b34 and f44 net you a full combo from neutral jump, and f3 might clip you but you will fall out of the string guaranteeing nothing.

f344 is a one input string. Meaning he must choose to do it before he confirms it. This means that if they commit to the string, they can't anti air with only f3 and then do a combo. They will have to expect your jump and do raw f3 into anti air 2, 121 ender.

You will see here that d4 and b1 are your best moves against cage. b1 absolutely destroys him if he commits to anything after anything on block, as it's a 9 frame mid leading into your biggest damage.

If you have a replay of the match I'll be glad to show you where the gaps were and when you could have pressed buttons.

Just remember that Cage pressure is ENTIRELY fake. He has nothing guaranteed after anything on block, as he is not plus enough and his mids are not fast enough. All he can do is walk back and bait you.
 
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DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
M.D. said:
So, View attachment 15568even Tweedy gets it.

Everyone is literally covering up that he has no good mids to follow up on his only plus frame that whiffs on half the cast, with that stupid 60% combo.

Literally that's the only excuse. They don't even play the game to see that in order to do the combo, you have to open someone up first. And with really good players you do not get that chance very often as your throws are teched.

I really am trying not to foam at the mouth and start insulting people but when there are so many ignorant people out there it really starts to get annoying.

Is there any single matchup winning for Cage in this game now? does he have anything higher than 5-5 with anyone?
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I dont think hes sayinng anything about our mid bro. Hes saying all these people tweeting camera KB combos like they gonnna ever hit that in a match and win. Anyone good gonna hit you with anything first time u try to load then position themselves so that next time u try to load it u get combod for half ur face.
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
M.D. said:
Hi.

Noob is indeed one of the matchups where his amplified forceballs do not whiff. That means that he should, after strings on block, cancel into them and be +3 on block.

The issue with +3 on block is that Cage has the following buttons to get in

b3 - the low advancing kick. 18 frame startup. Meaning after +3 you have time to start a full combo with 113 if you see him do it. If you are not sure, just d4 guaranteed.

f3 - the high advancing kick. 16 frame startup, but it's a high. A d4 will always hit him out of it, but you still have time to 113 him out of it as it's a 13 frame gap. Just record it in practice mode and just start pressing buttons not respecting it and you'll see.

f4 - the mid advancing kick (knee). 14 frame startup, meaning you have an 11 frame gap. Still not guaranteed pressure, still free to d4. The window to press something is tighter here but still works.
After f4 he is -5, and after f44 he is -6, so it's a guaranteed grab attempt or b1 from your side, he has to guess. If he doesn't want it, he has to spend another bar for f4 amp forceballs.

Cage will have to spam his d4, which is +17 on hit and it guarantees a f3 (the forward high kick that follows up in the three mid kicks). This is his main and only tool to guarantee this string .


What Cage players usually (and should) do is fish for a d4 on hit, or walk back and make you whiff something, and then use one of the three kicks mentioned above.

The problem vs noob is that once Cage does f344 he is -2, and he cannot backdash d4 if you just mash it. It will always clip him. So his mindgame of doing the string and walking back to bait a whiff does not work here.

The biggest weakness to Cage is that on all 3 advancing kicks, he is very free to neutral jumps. b34 and f44 net you a full combo from neutral jump, and f3 might clip you but you will fall out of the string guaranteeing nothing.

f344 is a one input string. Meaning he must choose to do it before he confirms it. This means that if they commit to the string, they can't anti air with only f3 and then do a combo. They will have to expect your jump and do raw f3 into anti air 2, 121 ender.

You will see here that d4 and b1 are your best moves against cage. b1 absolutely destroys him if he commits to anything after anything on block, as it's a 9 frame mid leading into your biggest damage.

If you have a replay of the match I'll be glad to show you where the gaps were and when you could have pressed buttons.

Just remember that Cage pressure is ENTIRELY fake. He has nothing guaranteed after anything on block, as he is not plus enough and his mids are not fast enough. All he can do is walk back and bait you.
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1st. depending on string and pushback u are more than what the move list says + also Johnny maybe vulnerable to some shit after hes plus but hes still controlling the match and forcing them to react. If you read jump, dont act like mann doesnt have an amazing AA game. if they walk back micro dash before you do whatever to get enough distance.

He for sure does have problems. But zomg I can't jail for 20 seconds when I have 2 bars isnt one of them imo.
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
M.D. said:
+6 with the fastest mid 14 which doesn't reach if they walk back or jump back.

Add the whole context while you're at it, he's not Jacqui with a 9 frame mid and +6 on block.

The +6 does not guarantee anything.

Upplay crap.
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I read your posts bro and I wish johnny had better KBs/maybe a throw KB and maybe jail force balls on everyone but damn im confused as to what you want. Its like you want him to be able to jail the shit out of people into 50/50s with 2 strings and a meter burn special? Cmon now bro.
 
heildan

heildan

NANI?!
+6 to possibly get a poke out of it cause the move has a lot of pushback, its not a thing where you'll be taking uncontested setups or combos from
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
DeftMonk said:
I read your posts bro and I wish johnny had better KBs/maybe a throw KB and maybe jail force balls on everyone but damn im confused as to what you want. Its like you want him to be able to jail the shit out of people into 50/50s with 2 strings and a meter burn special? Cmon now bro.
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I want:
  1. forceballs not to whiff on anyone
  2. people to stop selling cage as jailing the shit out of people into 50/50s with 2 strings and a meterburn special.
That's it.
 
DeftMonk

DeftMonk

Warrior
Its all about conditioning.... as braindead mentioned if you land a d1 then you 124 ur +6. They try to not block they get hit by that period. Now from here you have lots of options including just dont do shit and react because almost all the options ur opponent has to counter what you could do are heavily unsafe (excluding also do nothing or walk backwards). You guys can say don't upplay all you want but at the same time dont downplay the only shit johnny has which is + frames. Literally the only thing that makess him different than the rest of the cast is amount of + frames options and also non d1/d3 pokes with much less recovery.
 
D

Deleted member 35141

Guest
DeftMonk said:
Its all about conditioning.... as braindead mentioned if you land a d1 then you 124 ur +6. They try to not block they get hit by that period. Now from here you have lots of options including just dont do shit and react because almost all the options ur opponent has to counter what you could do are heavily unsafe (excluding also do nothing or walk backwards). You guys can say don't upplay all you want but at the same time dont downplay the only shit johnny has which is + frames. Literally the only thing that makess him different than the rest of the cast is amount of + frames options and also non d1/d3 pokes with much less recovery.
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So your saying +6 resets neutral wow or it does 11% damage kicks them far away.
You guys are right no character jails d1 into a +6 string ok cool lets look at what Sonya gets after d1 MIXUP CITY.
Another example baraka is similar to johnny that after you block the jail the options are low but on hit wow johnny gets 11% baraka gets a 55% KB or 37%bnb so let's not sit here and act like johnny got the only jailing buff, id personally rather be -7 with a chance of 25-50 % combos than reseting the neutral.

What has less recovery though ?
 
BoujieLuigi

BoujieLuigi

Character Crises Main
FoughtDragon01 said:
Yeah, I'm at a loss now. Showstopper's nice, but trying to load that Camera KB is suicide against higher level players. You're already basically guaranteed to get hit by a projectile/fast-advancing move on reaction, but some characters like Cetrion and Shao Kahn can full combo punish you for it, even after ending your grounded combo in S4xxCamera because it takes so long to put the damn thing away. Is there any other character with a KB requirement so actively hostile towards the player?
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I tried going for Camera KB during a mirror match. It 100% isn't worth. It's really dumb because Geras only has to whiff his twice with half the recovery frames but poor ol' go in the corner Johnny has to whiff 3 times with 43 FRAMES of recovery, WITHOUT landing a full combo with camera before whiffing 3 times for a total of 129 FRAMES. NRS thought they could distract us with the Johnny announcer with this blatant unfair comparison to Geras's new KB requirements.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
M.D. said:
If these EXPERTS claim that +6 is godlike, why does nobody actually give examples of what's guaranteed after that?

Because:

  1. They are clueless and never touched Cage yet they talk out of their ass
  2. See 1.
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Are u that clueless that you don't know ppl press buttons to interrupt cage coming in at +6 which delay or walk back b34 full combos. And that's only layer 1.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
LarSanity said:
So your saying it resets neutral lol
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If that's what you understood from layer 1, let alone layer 3-4 stuff, I can't be assed explaining footsies to you.
LarSanity said:
Yet nobody plays him so your point is shall I say pointless
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Maybe bc ppl play for money and pick 99% of the time the top 5.

Do you play for money?

Just seems this subforum has a lot of ppl who are straight up bad and don't understand footsies, maybe nrs games are all they've ever played.

My apologies that a footsie based char has to be frequented by ppl who know nothing about the topic, to any understanding individual
 
FoughtDragon01

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
Okay. this is what my dumbass gets for not reading the Say Cheese KB requirements properly. I went all this time thinking that you just needed to whiff it 3 times throughout the whole match. With that in mind, I spent a lot of time last night trying to find a setup that lets you safely whiff Camera against the majority of the cast, which I did. I didn't know that you need to whiff Camera, his main combo extender, and a horribly slow and telegraphed move, in a row, which made my progress last night pretty pointless. It felt very... deflating when I finally found that out.

Oh well. At least his Shades KB is pretty cool.
 
M.D.

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
Qwark28 said:
Are u that clueless that you don't know ppl press buttons to interrupt cage coming in at +6 which delay or walk back b34 full combos. And that's only layer 1.
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Ah so it's a tool for those who don't lab the matchup, gotcha.
 
R

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
Qwark28 said:
If that's what you understood from layer 1, let alone layer 3-4 stuff, I can't be assed explaining footsies to you.

Maybe bc ppl play for money and pick 99% of the time the top 5.

Do you play for money?

Just seems this subforum has a lot of ppl who are straight up bad and don't understand footsies, maybe nrs games are all they've ever played.

My apologies that a footsie based char has to be frequented by ppl who know nothing about the topic, to any understanding individual
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Could have done without the false arrogance and elitist jibber jabber tbh.

Felt like I was reading a post from Oak/MagicMan.

Play the character.

Seeing is believing right?

Show everyone that their bad! That they have shitty “neutral.”
 
D

Deleted member 35141

Guest
Qwark28 said:
If that's what you understood from layer 1, let alone layer 3-4 stuff, I can't be assed explaining footsies to you.

Maybe bc ppl play for money and pick 99% of the time the top 5.

Do you play for money?

Just seems this subforum has a lot of ppl who are straight up bad and don't understand footsies, maybe nrs games are all they've ever played.

My apologies that a footsie based char has to be frequented by ppl who know nothing about the topic, to any understanding individual
Click to expand...
Haha were gonna play that card now got me bruh.
Have a great day you arrogant prick
 
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