Throws

[TakeAChance]

It's a strike/throw meta. The whining in this thread is a bit ridiculous. The entire focus of the game is playing neutral and footsies... when you win the neutral and it's your turn you are trying to mix your opponent in order to open them up. Do you do a full string, stagger, shimmy, throw? All things you have to think about on the defense.

And if you make the correct read that a throw is coming... why wait for the tech? Neutral duck for full combo or D2 kb.

I'd be down for making throws 12% like they've always been, but that's about it.

Some of y'all in here need to level up tbh.

Because then it's a combo throw mixup. And It shouldn't be. I get so many fucking players with B3 into B3 into B3 with Jade.

Do you know why? Cause I know they are expecting the throw as soon as I stagger.

I neutral duck like crazy now, and I hate that i have to. If an opponent d1's me, I shouldn't have to worry in the back of my mind online that my own d1 is going to get eaten by their throw. Every try to poke Scorpion on his tele cancel, have your D1 whiff and have his throw crush it?

Even if the ranges were toned down slightly on them it would fix them. But right now, when the damn things are active, they are HUGE square hitboxes with a hurt box on the characters actual body. It's a bit rediculous.

 

[Tony at Home]

You get your poke blocked and just go into a throw with your negative frames.

If you get throw-interrupted after blocking your opponents poke than you would also be able to just get standing jabbed into a full combo.

 

[Vhozite]

I feel like this thread is more about bad online experiences (which is a legitimate concern of course) than it is about throws actually being too strong.

 

[Vslayer]

I think throws eating buttons is absurd.

For example, last night on 2 occasions in one match, I knew the opponent was going to throw, so I neutral ducked and pressed d2... and still got thrown?! Wtf? First time I thought it was a fluke, but then it happened again!

This happens to me all the time and even then, it should register as a tech since I pressed 2 but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Fuck this game, KL season 2 hasn't started yet and I'm already pissed about all the Scorpions who are gonna throw me all over the place like a ragdoll.

 

[Sazbak]

Just don't tech. Neutral crouch if you know a throw is coming for sure.

It's not a 50/50 if you get hit every time like I do because I'm old and don't have the reactions to tech:

As a fellow old guy(soon to be 32) I can relate to this. Never saw a throw KB in my life because I never tech throws. Am i genius or what?

 

[MsMiharo]

I'd be okay with lower damage. 10% means you have to be thrown 10 times to lose. By that time you need to start neutral ducking.

I like them eating buttons as it's a good counter vs mashing.

But more than anything the 50 50 should be removed. It's not gonna happen this game due to KBs but I feel it's just a bad mechanic. This means a longer window isn't needed IMO

 

[OutworldKeith]

Just introduce true crossups into the game and remove the goddamn block button then there will be new options to open someone up.
Fuck tradition.

With the way Teleports work in this game Scorpion would instantly become god tier lmao.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Throws are incredibly powerful.

Just how this game is. I think teching is obsolete, as so many KBs are on throws and missing one on a 50/50 is just loading up a free 300 damage.

Teching online is near impossible because of the input lag and short teching windows.

I do think THIS particular game would benefit from having either being able to tech a throw while blocking... or removing the 50/50 tech.

But they won't change this at all ever.

 

[trufenix]

Doesn’t it reward mashing, though? You get your poke blocked and just go into a throw with your negative frames. Opponent who is plus after blocking your poke tries to counter poke, but instead gets thrown. Depending on the frames, the throw will beat anything you do except jumping, neutral crouching, or using certain specials. And that’s with the thrower being negative...

Just use a different button than d1. You have so many other options than just the one that gets beat by throws.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Throws aren't "eating buttons". Throws aren't real highs and are better understood as "mids that can be neutral ducked"

If you're getting thrown out of your d1 then maybe don't press d1 when your -4? I can't reconcile how much this community complains about the poke system but then freaks out when they get tossed for trying to mash d1 repeatedly on block.

It's good the entire cast has access to a universal option to beat poke mashing. I already get jack shit off Kotals +6 d3. The fact that I can still throw someone whose smashing their face against the d1 button is a good thing.

This isn’t really true though. I’ve experienced situations where I’m not at disadvantage and throw still beat my poke. For example, Scorpion is +3 after 2,1 on block. I tried to check my opponent with d1 and I got thrown out of it lol. A throw shouldn’t even be possible in that situation for a gang of reasons.

 

[TaserFace007]

I agree that throws are too strong in this game. They said they wanted to get rid of the 50/50 guessing game, but then designed a 50/50 guessing game any time someone has a plus frame (or even close to a plus frame). It's kind of too much.

IMO, the best way to fix them would be to make them highs which whiff on ducking opponents (even when they're blocking), nerf the damage to 10% and lose the KBs entirely. Having a large part of the meta being based around throws is just kind of dumb.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

How many times was Sonic Fox punished in grand finals this weekend for attempting a throw? That’s high-level play, though.

But we shouldn’t act like they’re free. Better players are making it risky to be throw-happy. It turns into a mindgame, and imo mindgames are fun. Watching Sonic whiff and get blown up for it is just part of MK11’s meta.

I think overhauling entire characters just because you don’t like that they throw you is a bit extreme. Without the 50/50s and ridiculous plus-frame cancel-heavy pressure, this game is very defense and blocking-heavy. Throws help to open that up and keep the offense fast and fluid in-close.

Throws are also a way beat the wakeup roll, counter the pokes that some people are complaining about, etc.

Imo without them the entire meta would take a turn for the worse.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

This happens to me all the time and even then, it should register as a tech since I pressed 2 but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Fuck this game, KL season 2 hasn't started yet and I'm already pissed about all the Scorpions who are gonna throw me all over the place like a ragdoll.

How does this differ from them hitting a button?

I get tilted like the next person... but imagine if he'd landed b1 instead of a throw.

Do you give him props for the shimmy?

Are we just assuming that the person is "mashign throw" and it makes it "bad"?

I think people just don't like getting hit by throws, and don't really read into the ramification of what is actually happening

/shrug.

 

[Vslayer]

How does this differ from them hitting a button?

I get tilted like the next person... but imagine if he'd landed b1 instead of a throw.

Do you give him props for the shimmy?

Are we just assuming that the person is "mashign throw" and it makes it "bad"?

I think people just don't like getting hit by throws, and don't really read into the ramification of what is actually happening

/shrug.

Because, If I get hit by any other button, it's because I didn't read my opponent and therefore should get hit.

But when you read a throw and do it too early for the game's liking and it eats your input, it's annoying as hell.

 

[Vhozite]

I agree that throws are too strong in this game. They said they wanted to get rid of the 50/50 guessing game, but then designed a 50/50 guessing game any time someone has a plus frame (or even close to a plus frame). It's kind of too much.

IMO, the best way to fix them would be to make them highs which whiff on ducking opponents (even when they're blocking), nerf the damage to 10% and lose the KBs entirely. Having a large part of the meta being based around throws is just kind of dumb.

Strike/Throw mixup after plus frames is FG offense 101 and is present in probably every FG ever made. There is a difference between toning down 50/50's and removig the most basic mixup in the genre.

Also being able to eat 10 throws before you die would be nonsense when almost every character in the game gets 30% damage reading and punishing just one bad throw.

 

[S+ Main]

when your minus, just jump no one can covert of stray aa hits so lets bounce.

 

[Wrenchfarm]

I'm fine with the damage, but can the window for teching be a bit longer than a blink? Trying to tech online is a nightmare. Keep the damage the same, but extend the window for an escape (or as the OP mentioned, adjust it online to compensate for lag).

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I think they are fair as is instead of changing all lower tiers why not just nerd top tiers loops and range to even it out. They could also give health back to the person who teched the throw to make it more fair a reward for making the read. But I think ultimately its fine the way it is and teaching isn't hard. I tech every time but sometimes guess wrong but always get the failed escape message indicating I pressed it at the right time just wrong side.
If you practice your reaction you can tech every time. If you stay out of throw range there is no threat. If you practice letting go of block quickly its easy. Throws are not eating pokes you are negative before pressing or pressing after they throw.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I'm fine with the damage, but can the window for teching be a bit longer than a blink? Trying to tech online is a nightmare. Keep the damage the same, but extend the window for an escape (or as the OP mentioned, adjust it online to compensate for lag).

I practiced my reaction and now I can let go of block and mash one of the buttons and get tech every time. I always get the message even when I guess wrong. I guess 3f wouldn't hurt but it isn't that bad. Maybe the online lag idea might be worth

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Because, If I get hit by any other button, it's because I didn't read my opponent and therefore should get hit.

But when you read a throw and do it too early for the game's liking and it eats your input, it's annoying as hell.

you're literally proving my point.

If you read another move, but hit the button "too early for the game's liking" you would STILL get hit by said move.

c'mon now.

 

[Vslayer]

you're literally proving my point.

If you read another move, but hit the button "too early for the game's liking" you would STILL get hit by said move.

c'mon now.

Nah, if someone throws and you D2 it just as they do it, your D2 should count, not the throw.

Then this happens if it's not timed right:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1153686822041505792

They need to fix this shit. D2s should have priority over throws.

 

[SnowboardRX]

I just hate that they eat pokes. If I go to poke you and my animation is already more than half over and you still grab me out of it, damn do I lose my mind. It's so annoying and should be addressed. Hell, I've been grabbed out of D2. Like, isn't that the way to punish a grab?

 

[DDustiNN]

I just hate that they eat pokes. If I go to poke you and my animation is already more than half over and you still grab me out of it, damn do I lose my mind. It's so annoying and should be addressed. Hell, I've been grabbed out of D2. Like, isn't that the way to punish a grab?

This is exactly what I was talking about. I already see my move coming out, and get grabbed out of it. So damn maddening.

 

[Tony at Home]

They need to fix this shit. D2s should have priority over throws.

Even if d2s have priority over throws you can still get thrown out of them.

It's not a matter of priority. If you get thrown out of a d2 it's because the throw hit before the d2 hit. It's no different than any other counter hit where an opponent's mid stuffs your d2.

I just hate that they eat pokes.

They don't "eat"pokes. Throws have 0 armor and 0 invulnerability. It's a 10 frame move and if it comes out before yours it wins. Same with every mid hitting move.

You're move isn't getting "eaten". You're getting counter hit because you're still in startup frames. Any other 10 frame mid would behave the same way.

 

[Owerbart]

Just introduce true crossups into the game and remove the goddamn block button then there will be new options to open someone up.
Fuck tradition.

If people complain about online scorpions, imagine if you had to hold back to block lmao