Should MK11 have more combo paths tied to base moves?

[LawAbidingCitizen]

I made a thread about kombo length, personally I felt it could be a tiny bit longer and the majority spoke and said they didn't want them to be longer and felt the length was fine. That thread wasn't about depth, paths or creativity or characters number of options. I'm ultimately fine with the length as I'm satisfied with how MK11 plays. I'm having a blast.
But I'm curious what others think about having universal starters for every character(base moves: normal/special) that isn't a slot move so every variation has combos?

What this thread is about is combo paths that are tied to base moves. There are many characters who don't have combo starters that are in base moves so they have to equip the special move at a cost of 1-2 slots limiting what they can have their character play like. I feel many characters only have a single pop up special move but its just one special move not grounded to the character and not usable in all variations(especially tournament Variations).
The characters I can think of who have this issue are:

• Erron Black(LnL) is in 52 card pickup only making the second var suffer.
• Jax(Stance launcher) BF2 & DB4 in Grinnin Berret which is only in that variation. Hunker Down doesn't have combo starters other than KB's but is still a top tier character.
• Kano has a special that gives him normals that launch but its only in Ripper making the other one less used. He is bad enough.
• Kotal Kahn has Kahn-Cut in Ascension but lacks combo in Totemic and has no other launcher in customs besides his B22 which is unsafe and has hitbox issues.
• Raiden I believe only has Cell(DB2) in one variation he may have more but nothing base that I know of.
• Frost has to use special moves that cost slots
• Shang Tsung only has a few specials other than F242 into Ground Skulls far midscreen (tight link) and in corner. He actually has good combos and I use Warlock with no complaints. But I feel Spell master needs more paths.
• Baraka has Gutted really and no base launchers.

There are more but I don't remember every move in the game at this time.

The characters that are exempt from this are:
Scorpion, Sub Zero, Cassie Cage, Geras, Shao, Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Kollector etc that have base moves that lead to combo so they can have combo from any variation which is great and breeds creativity and personality from players.

What I'm suggesting is they add base combo paths like normals or special moves that allow combo that isn't tied to one variation. So we can have more combo potential in none used variations like Erron Black's: Barking Irons, Kano's Dirt Bag, Shangs: Spellmaster and others.

Do you want more combo starters that are base moves so you don't have to play the variation with combos?
Or
Do you think its fine how it is?
Share below

 

[OzzFoxx]

I want more fun. I’ve made countless posts about the lack of combo creativity in MK11 on TYM; I imagine some are getting annoyed with me. But that issue is so glaring that we also don’t notice many other things that were fun about prior games like gadget characters, time-delay setups, interactable extensions, etc. I’m not worried since people are already abandoning the game online, they will do something to change things up. They’re good about listening. They tried something new and it checked a lot of boxes, it just needs a bit of a kick.

 

[TotteryManx]

I think it would make the game more fresh. Some characters only use 2-3 strings to be successful. Makes it kind of stale. Adding more launching capabilities or just strings that are useful would be a breath of fresh air.

 

[Vslayer]

Yes definitely. I was against NJP pop-ups in the beginning but I wouldn't mind them returning. I think that would increase combo paths for a lot of characters and make it a bit more interesting.

 

[spidey300]

moves shouldn't have been taken and locked away from competitive in the first place. some specials don't even exist anymore. ice clone, scorpion hellfire and takedown, and gas blast. does sonya have cartwheel anymore

 

[stokedAF]

Yeah this kind of stuff kind of turns me off of variations. I would rather a character have 1 setup with all of their best moves. Some characters best moves aren’t in either variation. It’s not cool to have your krushing blows spread across different variations and those are big combo starters.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Like OP said

Base character desgin should of at least included ONE launcher.

The fact that like half the cast without slot moves can't launch to extend any kind of damage is just bad.

 

[FoughtDragon01]

I'd like it if they focused less on KBs that take off 30% health right away and more on ones that pop up for less damage initially, but lead into damaging combos if you don't break away. It'd reward smart resource management and using your KBs more wisely instead of the current meta of 'Oh, you thought you could press a button? Lul, get rekt, nerd.'

 

[Marlow]

Feels like a bit of a false choice.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Feels like a bit of a false choice.

Its genuine questions. Some may like characters without Combos being space control players. But I'm sure others will want different answers on poll. Do you have a suggestion I'll maybe add it, for now I'll add Other Option and revoting is allowed so no harm done.

 

[John Grizzly]

I don't even know how much more I can say about the MK11 combos.

I hate them. They're boring and it's ruining the game for me. If nothing is done is to change that, I'm personally done with the game.

I used to spend hours in practice just trying out combos in the previous games. Now? Forget it.

If you can sit there and honestly tell me the way Kitana plays in this game feels like Kitana, then you're lying to yourself. She is probably the most egregious example of how shit the combo system is in MK11.

Liu Kang is another great example. Oh....you're midscreen? Enjoy your short string into bicycle kicks. But....you can amplify it twice!!!! Watching NinjaKilla play Liu Kang in MKX as opposed to MK11 is absolute night and day. The crazy shit he'd do is nowhere to be found in this game.

I really can't wrap my head around anyone thinking they'd still be having fun with this game if it's left in its current state in a year or so. I'm not going to shit on anyone if they truly find the game fun to play and watch, but I just don't agree.

I know many will disagree, but I really miss the NJP's. There's soooo many situations where I'm just waiting for my opponent to fall because there's no other option if I want to continue a combo for decent damage. Shao Kahn in the corner is a great example. If I hit 1,4xBF3 MB, the opponent is sent sky high. A NJP here would just feel right.

 

[dennycascade]

Yes. They dropped the fucking ball when it comes to combos in this game.

Seriously, it’s a joke compared to the insane amount of creative potential there was in MKX. I was so excited to be finding combo tech left and right like before, but was extremely disappointed by the lack of depth in each character’s combo potential (aside from a few interesting standouts like Geras). I think they gimped themselves with the whole mix & match idea because it could have turned into characters having several different launcher/combo link moves, so they doled them out very conservatively. For an example of an exception to what I’m talking about, check out Kabal’s kustoms and the ridiculous amount of launchers/links you can give him.

It’s very clear from the amount of unfinished shit in this game that they intended for kustoms to be legal and the game was pushed out early, so sadly we ended up with the worst of both worlds. And what’s with the wonky Injustice gravity? This is an MK game.

 

[Marlow]

Its genuine questions. Some may like characters without Combos being space control players. But I'm sure others will want different answers on poll. Do you have a suggestion I'll maybe add it, for now I'll add Other Option and revoting is allowed so no harm done.

Thanks.

I think those Characters still have combo's, they're just generally shorter or more grounded, as opposed to having a launcher. I'm fine with that, because I think it's fine to have characters that are built less around big combo damage and more on pressure, zoning, or setups. Raijin, for example, still has some 20-24% combos with corner carry, and when he has his Discharge move charged up he even gains some additional combos in the corner. But it's clear that his Raijin variation is meant to be more about defensive play and screen position, as opposed to fishing for combos.


Ultimately I'm fine with the game, I think what they really need to do is either add more variations or just let people use custom variations. Then I think you'll see and feel more of that personalization, and get that better sense of freedom.

 

[Marlow]

And what’s with the wonky Injustice gravity? This is an MK game.

hasn't the gravity mechanic been a pretty standard feature from game to game with NRS? I didn't think Injustice was that different than the MK games that came before it.

 

[Bucketfeet]

In MKX aside from messing around in practice mode. How many different combos did you actually do during a match? I assume you only go for most optimal. Which is probably their mindset making this game.

I myself too enjoyed spending countless hours practicing combos in MKX. This is just a different game and I can assure you it won't change during it's game life.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

In MKX aside from messing around in practice mode. How many different combos did you actually do during a match? I assume you only go for most optimal. Which is probably the mindset of this game.

There were more optimals for varying situations. Optimal punish, optimal njp conversion, optimal corner, optimal side switch, optimal AA, optimal low/oh starting combo, optimal reset setup, optimal oki setup, optimal unbreakable, etc.

There were also many varying degrees of difficulty to combos. You could try to go for 4-5 IA fireballs in the corner with Liu, but you didn't have to if you didn't want to, and you'd still bag decent damage. Many 1-2 frame links as well that you could choose to do, and whenever you hit them, it just felt GOOD. They weren't necessary, but they were there for you to master if you wanted to.

If you were to look at MOS Ermac in mkx for example, there were 3 effective ways to combo off of his f4 overhead:

Easy - f4~soul ball, jip f21d2, run, b12, b12, b12~soul burst

Medium - f4~tele, d1~soul ball, jip f21d2, run, b12, b12~soul burst

Hard - f4~tele, b12, f21d2, run, b12~soul ball [here you'd do a ji2 (+20sum), then go for the mix again OR cash out the damage with jip s4~soul burst]

They were all practical, just incrementally harder where the tougher ones granted you a little more % in damage.

There was just a lot more freedom to the combo system in that game imo. Maybe it's just me.

 

[xKMMx]

YES!!! Character get boring fast because there is literally only so much you can do with them.
When you watch high level players do their swaggiest combos they seem pretty vanilla and basic because almost all characters have very little variety in their move set.

Combos aren't everything but having multiple combo paths and enders make a character feel more entertaining and fun to play longer in my opinion.

During MKX I was always seeing other people online or even pros in tournaments doing things I didn't think of or even know where possible looooooooooong after the character had been playable. It was so cool to see how many different ways people could play a character and how they would put together combos.

I'm MK11 you pretty much have seen it all with a character once seeing them about 20 times you know what they have and what they can do .

 

[xKMMx]

Yes definitely. I was against NJP pop-ups in the beginning but I wouldn't mind them returning. I think that would increase combo paths for a lot of characters and make it a bit more interesting.

NJP's would make a lot of people super pissed and get turned off to this game... but they sure as hell do make things fun.

 

[Blade4693]

I know this is off topic but can somebody @ or quote me in here real quick? Trying to test my notification settings.

 

[Vslayer]

NJP's would make a lot of people super pissed and get turned off to this game... but they sure as hell do make things fun.

It would change the meta for sure, but anything is better than countless down pokes in a row into a grab.

@Blade4693

 

[Blade4693]

It would change the meta for sure, but anything is better than countless down pokes in a row into a grab.

@Blade4693

Thank you a ton @Vslayer that did the trick, everything is working how I want

 

[xKMMx]

It would change the meta for sure, but anything is better than countless down pokes in a row into a grab.

@Blade4693

Yea that is getting so old.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

if you jsut hold up when a dude is poking eventually he'll go to throw and you can land a punch

/shrug

 

[EarlyReflections]

Raiden TW:

JK, f4, db2 amped, f4, superman : 345.20 damage.

Registers as 13 hits, but it's actually 5 effortless commands.
That says it all

 

[DDustiNN]

This is exactly what I’ve noticed. Length is not the issue, it’s the variety.

In MK9, MKX, Injustice, Injustice 2, I spent hours and hours and hours figuring out different combos with characters. In MK11, I always see the same 1 or 2 combos over and over and over, with every single player. I never noticed that in previous games. There was much more variety. Here there’s no real room for creativity and different combos.

That said, I’m still loving this game a ton more than MKX.